ivanjo11

And the C6 Z06 had CF floor, does the C7 Z06 has that or not?

NemesisC5

Good information and perspectives in this thread, many of which seem to point at lighter weight track oriented (C7 ZO6X / L88 or whatever moniker seems appropriate) to be in the C7 future especially if a ZR1 is not. To lighten the car with carbon fiber sounds like small increments of weight multiplied by many parts that will drive the price up substantially. As it sits now the C7z is basically a ZR1 spec that will likely outperform the C6 ZR1 in every way. I expect a limited production C7 stable mate to the Z28 that will likely come in with much more CF, hopefully a titanium exhaust system, lightweight battery and other weight saving measures for performance purists and those that wish to be track ready. This direction seems to follow the path of events and construction details of Chevy's current offerings and the rumor mill. Just my .02$

vant

Carbon fiber might be light weight, but it raises many safety concerns for this particular application.

1991Z07

I think some of you are forgetting that the final decisions have not been made on the C7 Z06/Z07. We are still more than a year away from release (or about 10 months to refit of the line)...and there will be quite a few changes made between now and the release of the car to the public.

Who knows...maybe the CF variants of the fenders, etc. were not ready yet. Maybe GM had a supplier issue, and so they used what they could get quickly to get the car in a state they could show to the public.

Regardless...this was NOT the production car shown. It's a MULE...although one of the second generation variety, but it's still NOT production.

Wait to freak out until GM ACTUALLY releases the first pre-production run of Z06/Z07's and lets the press drive them. THEN, we'll see what they ACTUALLY have in/on them.

Supermassive

Porsche 918 Spyder ~3,700lbs (est.$800,000)
SRT Viper ~3,400lbs (starts @$104,000)
Ferrari 458 ~3,300lbs (starts @$233,509)
Lamborghini Aventador ~4,000lbs ($400,000)
Nissan GT-R ~3,800lbs (starts @$99,590)

I am sure i could keep adding cars to this list, but the fact remains that the only cars remotely close to the same price as the Corvette that weigh less are Porsche 911 variants that remain N/A and RWD. As cars become more and more complex to meet more and more strict government standards for safety, fuel economy, and reliability the cost will continue to go up. All the people on here stating that materials and fabrication costs should be lower keep forgetting that CF doesn't "give" as much as SMC plastics which affects reliability. Honestly for fenders and body panels i am more inclined to stick with SMC as it's cheaper to replace in the event that something happens to it. I have used CF replacement panels on a few cars now and i have yet to see OEM perfect fit and finish on any of them. They are close but unless i want to spend thousands of dollars of stuff from brands like Mansory or whoever else makes near flawless CF parts vs. the usual suspects like Seibon it's still a noticeable difference.

I get that people here want GM to just release a true no holds barred track rat car, but unless the Z06 is successful it won't happen...ever again. You want exotic car parts for bargain car prices, it would be nice but it's not a want that's based in any kind of reality. Sure the outgoing Z06 had CF front fenders, but from my understanding the side by side weight difference was negligible between OEM CF fenders and OEM SMC, I could be wrong but I thought I read that it was about 9 pounds saved between the two. If GM reduced the density of the SMC process the difference in weight could be even less.

Of course the C7R will use CF everything, because ounces matter in racing. In a daily driven car that might see track usage occasionally it's not so big a deal. For the die hards, who want ultimate performance there is this really cool thing called the aftermarket that will likely provide everything one could want to make their Z06 as racy as they want it. For me i want the best of both worlds, I want a car that when driving down the street doesn't dislodge my fillings but at the track is as capable as anything else out there stock to stock.

I know i will do a few mods to the Z06 like headers/x-pipe, intake, and likely a mild tune to account for the power adders. But beyond that I might buy a set of track wheels and tires so i have r-comps for the tracks and the PSC's for the street here in Phoenix. I've built my little track rat cars a few times now and while they are fun on the occasion, daily driving them is not.

So no, I don't care that they didn't use CF for the fenders because if it made financial sense to GM they would have done it. They are going to offer a car that will likely stomp the ever living crap out of everything short of the super exotics in the performance fields while also offering a car that has the reliability of a daily driver, I'm sorry but I see no issue here.

JG853

I could be incorrect, but is this not the same weight as the Cast Speedline Wheels that came in Polished or Comp Grey in the 2006-2008 C6 Z06 model years? I thought they were 19 pounds front, 23 pounds rear in the same sizes below. Now they are not as strong, but still a light wheel. Not sure...

Z06Ronald

Both post # 45 and # 46 make sense.

zeshawn

Jim stop arguing with the JVP dude because he acts like he knows everything in existence and will constantly strive to tell everyone how nothing is possible due to costs and what have you. On the other hand its people like US and the competition that drive companies to innovate and push themselves to the limit and beyond rather than sit and argue on a forum.

Technological advancements and mass production reduces costs, if we had carbon fiber fenders on the previous generation Corvette I think we should have not less but more carbon fiber on the newer model Corvette to accompany the vast array of improvements the new car provides.

On the other hand im glad GM left out some parts for the aftermarket, if Halltech or Katech come out with replacement carbon fiber panels that have weight savings over the factory parts then im all in, let the haters hate!!

Z06Ronald

I maintain the (C6) Z06 OEM and Aftermarket Parts Weight List, and that's why I am interested in the correct specs as well.
I searched for and found another post about the wheels.

JoesC5

Might want to add the Mercedes SLS AMG Black Series to your list. 3,417 pounds curb weight at $280,000 with 622 HP NA.

Rkreigh

I think GM is moving a bit cautiously with the Z06.

look at some history, the ZR-1 came out after the C6 had "matured" and started to pay off the tooling. slowly we saw the emergence of carbon fiber as it fit into the bottom line.

GM really priced the C7 base corvette aggressively, and needs to make the Z06 a higher profit margin "halo car"

so we see a conservative approach, a carbon fiber torq tube, as it has the best bang for the buck in weight savings and strength.

down the road, more and more exotic materials will creep in, slowly but surely to sell new vettes.

but meanwhile, the bean counters are minding the store and the volumes that the vette brings don't justify the expense of new tooling. long recovery cycle for the ROI, and the "old" C4 ZR-1 taught GM a thing or two about spending the big bucks on a low volume car.

I don't think GM is into "loss leader" concepts and has to sell exotic stuff up the line.

at the end of the day it DOES open up opportunities for the aftermarket, so certainly we'll see some advanced technology at higher margins step up to fill the gap.

the cost just doesn't justify the PITA and weight savings.

unfortunately, the vette is trying to be "all things" rather than going back to the roots of a boulevard bruiser (like the raw L88 of old)

but Jim, I do agree with you, many of the "advancements" seem like they are going backwards in technology.

PS>>> thanks Jim for your many innovations over the years

I have one of your early CF stinger hoods on my TTiX tiger shark vette (C5) and I think it's the best looking hood and fits the twin turbo motif very well.

sure wish I could have scored one of your TT kits long ago, very well engineered product!

keep up the good work and being CRITICAL of the vette is all about the passion. if we the consumers demand the best, GM will be pushed to improve the product.

otherwise, they will fail.

GM has had some glimmers of success, and I like to think the "loss leader" C4 ZR-1 taught them about the price of quality, and building a world class product. clearly, the vette now is a very competitive car, at a world beating bang for the buck.

hopefully the pace that these advancements come is sooner rather than later.

if they don't sell enough vettes, the bottom line and business case clearly won't support the R&D to deliver the "best of the best"

but look at other marques like Lexus. the LFA was incredibly advanced, but so overpriced that there just wasn't a future. some of the CF machines (the big looms) that Lexus put together cost a bundle, and now are "on the shelf"

just like some of the advanced tooling for the LT5

GM has learned from others, and knows that the vette has to turn a profit, and unfortunately many folks will likely appreciate the durability and low cost of the SMC more so than worry about 100 lbs.

the "hard core" among us, expect and demand the best.

I'm hoping the CF 3D printing and other technologies step up to make production of these parts more affordable and realistic for low volume cars. if not GM, others will step up.

I know a few folks that would like to update the fascias and fenders to give a more aggressive and stylish look, as I feel the vette could use a little help in that department.

still love the car, but like Jim, I want only the best, but unfortunately my desire is not commensurate with my budget!

JoesC5

I doubt if there is 12-15 pounds of weight reduction by making the four fenders from carbon fiber over the low density SMC GM now uses.

A Ti exhaust would probably cost less and would realize around a 30 pound weight reduction.

Halltech

You will see these on an two OEM applications in the near future. As for potholes: http://carbonrev.com/technology/#nav_anchor Click on Testing


These wheels passed all TUV standards and repeated all TUV testing with +20% added to the testing.

Halltech

I agree with you on the titanium. My favorite metal, with Mg in second.

That's how we made a 2777 lb Z06.

Carbon Fiber Facts

JoesC5

The low density SMC possibly weighs around 15-20% less than the old SMC used on the C5/C6.

On the C6, the combined weight on the four SMC fenders was around 28 pounds, so even if you did cut the weight by 50% , that's only 14 pounds savings. But, the new low density SMC weighs less than the old SMC, thus there is not as much weight savings to be realized by switching to carbon fiber.

I believe the carbon fiber fenders on the C6 Z06 were around 40% less weight than the SMC fenders.

Halltech

Thanks for the kudos.

I have a feeling we may still be surprised by the final build. It takes less than 20 minutes for Plasan to make a C7 Stingray hood with their new technology. Costs are coming down. Maybe in the end we'll see more and less. More carbon fiber, less weight.

Halltech

Good point for the Stingray, but it still weighs more than the C6. The C6Z06 needs more carbon fiber, more magnesium, more titanium. Just my opinion.

Don't get me wrong. The car is awesome! I am #1 on the pre-order list here in Milwaukee. They did so many things right, it is hard to fault the car. Let me put it this way; even if the ZR1 was being released in 2016, I would still buy the Z06.

B Stead

With the C5 Z06, the spin-cast Speedline wheels are said to weigh the same as the forged Alcoa wheels. I don't know how good spin-cast is.

But don't confuse spin-cast with spun-wheels. A spun-wheel is a machined wheel with the rim in two pieces and then the center making the third piece.

To compare forged aluminum with cast aluminum I went looking for weights of steel versus cast iron and they come in at about the same weight. Of course we know that steel is three to four times stronger than cast iron.

But when looking at the TE37, I can't see that they slimmed down the wheel based on the strength gain. It looks just as massive as heavier wheels. Then the CE28N or the RE30 are slimmer than the TE37 and I doubt that there is anything that matches them on weight. But I did find a 18.2 pound weight on the TE37 front wheel
.

JoesC5

Jim, I need to correct my numbers. I didn't take the time to look them up and relied on my failing memory. Bad move.

The C6 front fenders weigh 8.5 pounds each and the rear fenders weigh 7.7 pounds each for a total weight of 32.4 pounds.

The Z06's carbon fiber front fenders weigh 3 pounds each for a weight savings of 5.5 pounds, or 11 pounds savings for both.

Since the low density SMC used on the C7 weighs less than the C6's SMC the weight reduction wouldn't be as much. I'm still guessing that going with carbon fiber for the four fenders would only save around 15-16 pounds.


You could save that much by going with a Lithium-Ion battery.

On the C6 Z06, the Mg front engine cradle saved 10 pounds over the aluminum one. For the C7 base, the new hollow cast aluminum front engine cradle saved almost that much, so difficult to justify expensive Mg to save a couple of pounds.

Halltech

Since the C7 counterparts are not yet made and weighed, there is no way of knowing the differences.

Our carbon fiber rear quarter panels made in pre-preg weigh under 5 lbs for the pair.

I agree the battery is a good weight saver, our Lithium Ion battery weighs 9 lbs vs. 32 but cost us $1600 6 years ago; it is still going strong. It is weight loss over the rear end, which is not as good as weight loss over the front end or unsprung rotating weight loss, as in lightweight wheels/tires.

When we upgraded our Ultralight Z06 to the SKF bearing/hubs I did it with some reservations thinking more weight, but it turned out a wash. After using titanium fasteners on the hubs and caliper mounts, we shaved -3.5 lbs off the 4 wheels collectively and -47lbs off the wheel/tire combination with the CR9s.

My only point is that if GM was really serious about attracting a broader Supercar market, they would at least have a carbon fiber package available beyond trim and aero parts.

Call it the really serious Carbon-Z package. Some would pass on the package from a cost standpoint, others would instantly add it to the build. I know it would be on my option list instantly.

Who knows for sure, maybe that is the plan already; maybe the mules that we have seen are just that, and the final build will see a few more carbon fiber parts. I'm hoping.