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You opinion is just that an opinion and that's fine but you can't take a picture of one specific area of a car and say it's not as esthetically pleasing it's the whole pkg that makes the look of a car all things blend in together and IMO the Viper rocks as far as looks go as does the Vette but in a different way.
She's Purty Also loving that new SUV porsche. Those would make a fun daily
Thanks, man. It is.
The interesting thing is, if the C7 Z06 was all it was supposed to be, I would honestly consider getting a A8 non-Z07 package as my daily (with the Viper as the "play" car). But I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a car that isn't 'right' from the factory. Plus, all these issues make C7 Z potential resale value a very scary thought.
The interesting thing is, if the C7 Z06 was all it was supposed to be, I would honestly consider getting a A8 non-Z07 package as my daily (with the Viper as the "play" car). But I don't want to spend a bunch of money on a car that isn't 'right' from the factory. Plus, all these issues make C7 Z potential resale value a very scary thought.
I'm sure these small issues will be worked out but GM will never admit there was a problem. However i'd definitely keep the hipo SUV. That's a cool fun daily. C7Z and Viper are too close and comparable to spend the money on both IMO. Man if I had the money id love to get that new supercharged land rover SVR. I have a sneaking suspicion that the hellcat motor will find its way into a Cherokee!!
Alas, I'm sure you'll find the classic racecar ugly, too. No problem with that.
You've done well Karnack! I do not like them only because it was cool in its day and I'm just not into that styling anymore....kinda like Antiques...some people love them (like me) and others hate them (which is fine) because again, we shouldn't be critical of opinions and likes/dislikes because no one should ever push their tastes onto you, but we can be critical of mis-represented facts. And speaking of Retro I also do not appreciate the Retro 5th Gen Camaro, New Mustang or Challenger....I think the originals are the classic and they've taken great cars from the past and tarnished their legacy by restyling the cars rather than relying on good ole American ingenuity and just coming out with "new" styles that would be the future classic's. I attribute this to stogy old white guys in senior executive positions at the Big Three unwilling to take appropriate risk versus the reward.....I can tell you that as a guy that clearly resembles "stogy old white guy" that if I was a Vehicle Line Executive with 650-700+HP available for whatever project got my whim that I would empower a young design team to come up with the next "world killer car", not something that was conservative in nature to be "politically correct" but that's just me And now that you have me on a ranting roll, I feel the same way about Big Screen movie remakes......for heavens sake, come up with something new, don't rehash the past because you lack creativity and leadership.
I traded in a beautiful loaded white on red C7 Z51 with 3LT for my white Viper. I received a large amount of compliments on the Corvette, mostly from older white men, because it was indeed an attractive car. However, the attention and compliments I get in my Viper are easily 3-4 times that of what I received in the Corvette. I get people staking me in it, videotaping, taking pics, even driving dangerously to get a closer look. Men and women from all races and age groups seem to love this car and tell me everytime I leave my house. There is no comparison between the two. I have first hand experience that the general public far prefers the looks of the Gen V Viper over the C7. It's not even close, actually, and your personal opinion has no impact on this fact.
You're 100% correct, my opinion has ZERO bearing on this...hey we agree! I just think it's strange that the target market of the Viper don't think so otherwise they'd be flocking to buy it, sales would be exceeding expectations and Dodge could actually afford to raise the car's price just like GM did with the C6Z, not drop it.
Your opinion is just that an opinion and that's fine but you can't take a picture of one specific area of a car and say it's not as esthetically pleasing it's the whole pkg that makes the look of a car all things blend in together and IMO the Viper rocks as far as looks go as does the Vette but in a different way.
You're right but my problem is that I do take the pieces and add them to the sum and now that Nineball has educated me with the Retro design legacy of the Viper I fully understand why it is so displeasing personally to me....Dodge has still left a "retro" cab to be integrated into a modern looking body and I find this very aesthetically displeasing because the design elements (for me, not everyone) clash. Clearly the delemia for the Dodge design Team was how do we keep the look of the car "Viper" but also make it more appealing because as Tony also agrees, the first generations will not go down as "styling classic's"....more of a styling flop! Dodge should have just dropped the "Viper cab" look and redesigned the car in it's entirety and I'd bet it would be a raging success because I will also admit that some portions of the style are very nice, just not the package as a whole (to me and a lot of others in the target audience). Of course this is probably my 4 decades of applying architectural design influence that has tainted me where I pay an inordinate amount of attention to scale, proportion, sizing and style on projects that I'm involved with
You're 100% correct, my opinion has ZERO bearing on this...hey we agree! I just think it's strange that the target market of the Viper don't think so otherwise they'd be flocking to buy it, sales would be exceeding expectations and Dodge could actually afford to raise the car's price just like GM did with the C6Z, not drop it.
You don't get it. But that's okay. My 6-year old niece doesn't either, so you aren't alone.
And speaking of Retro I also do not appreciate the Retro 5th Gen Camaro, New Mustang or Challenger....I think the originals are the classic and they've taken great cars from the past and tarnished their legacy by restyling the cars rather than relying on good ole American ingenuity and just coming out with "new" styles that would be the future classic's. I attribute this to stogy old white guys in senior executive positions at the Big Three unwilling to take appropriate risk versus the reward
Couldn't agree more.
I feel the same way about Big Screen movie remakes......for heavens sake, come up with something new, don't rehash the past because you lack creativity and leadership.
Unless you are a track rat who must absolutely get every inch of performance out of the vette or viper, performance between these two cars cancel each other out. Ridiculous the d...k measuring contest this has become...
It comes down to looks for me. I think the vette is better proportioned, IMO. The front end of the viper looks massive at certain angles. I also give the roof line to the vette. However, the rear and rear quarter of the viper is unbelievably beautiful.
Tough choice. Both fantastic, both look unbelievable.
Unless you are a track rat who must absolutely get every inch of performance out of the vette or viper, performance between these two cars cancel each other out. Ridiculous the d...k measuring contest this has become...
It comes down to looks for me. I think the vette is better proportioned, IMO. The front end of the viper looks massive at certain angles. I also give the roof line to the vette. However, the rear and rear quarter of the viper is unbelievably beautiful.
Tough choice. Both fantastic, both look unbelievable.
Having read through many threads and posts - I think the key point being argued is not that the new C7 Z06 is fast; it is.
It held the Viper in this video to 3rd gear to a point it's anyone's race.
Fourth gear however seemed to be where there was a significant difference between the two cars.
Where the ZR1 - which was also quite equal - actually started to pull ever so slightly in fourth - the Z06 faded quick noticeably.
Could it be the aero? Car and Driver noticed a sizable MPH difference (7+ MPH) on a straight with the stage 3 aero.
Is it a delicate ECU? Heat? I don't know - nor does anyone yet.
People are talking about it because they don't know the answer...it's not about ego.
People are talking about it because they don't know the answer...it's not about ego.
There are those that are talking about it but also those that are being ridiculous about it. To call either of these two cars a failure or ugly is just plain laughable.
Too many people on here trying to justify their purchase by ragging on the other.
This has already been answered multiple times in this thread, but regarding aero, the C7 Z in the white Viper vs black C7 Z video is a level 1 Aero car, meaning it has the least amount of aero available on a C7 Z (i.e., it has the least amount of drag).
The Viper, being a TA model, has the most amount of aero of the three currently available Gen V Viper models that you can buy. Therefore, in a race with a level 2, or even worse, level 3 aero C7 Z06, the results would be even more negative for the Z06, because it would have had more drag than this particular Z06 did.
Also, in a race where the Viper is a non-TA Viper (i.e., SRT or GTS), again, the results would have been worse for the C7 Z, because there would have been less drag on the Viper. This would also apply in a race between a ZR1 and a GTS or SRT Viper, because there is less drag in those two models of Vipers compared to the Viper TA that was in both of the referenced videos.
Considering the outside temps and the level of aero of these particular cars, this was pretty much the perfect opportunity for a C7 Z06 to beat a Gen V Viper in a race.
Last edited by Divexxtreme; 12-20-2014 at 06:39 PM.
There are those that are talking about it but also those that are being ridiculous about it. To call either of these two cars a failure or ugly is just plain laughable.
Too many people on here trying to justify their purchase by ragging on the other.
I agree with you - I don't like the any excessive opinions - in either camp...
It does seem the Z06 was not at a high level of aero...I agree.
Again, everyone has an opinion and having an opinion doesn't make someone wrong....when I look at a car I see the whole design as an integral work and one of the most glaring amateurish design features of the Viper is the upper cab which gives a Viper the recognizable "Viper" look.....unfortunately for me this is beyond hideous and it readily becomes apparent in the views that you supplied Tony:
.....simply provide these two views side by side to 100 people and ask a simple question....which one looks aesthetically more pleasing and you'll likely find the 3 out of 100 that say the Viper does probably also voted for Obama Discussion Forums, Peace!
HAHAHA! You really didn't just do that, did you? At least the Viper has painted fenders. Nah, we can't design a wider fender to cover the tires/wheels so we will stick these on and they'll look great. Maybe 3 of 100 will like the C7 roofline better but I guarantee you 0 of 100 will like the C7 in this comparison. Where in your 4 decades of architectural design has this ever been an aesthetically great idea??
Again, everyone has an opinion and having an opinion doesn't make someone wrong....when I look at a car I see the whole design as an integral work and one of the most glaring amateurish design features of the Viper is the upper cab which gives a Viper the recognizable "Viper" look.....unfortunately for me this is beyond hideous and it readily becomes apparent in the views that you supplied Tony:
.....simply provide these two views side by side to 100 people and ask a simple question....which one looks aesthetically more pleasing and you'll likely find the 3 out of 100 that say the Viper does probably also voted for Obama Am I being critical of you and anyone else for buying the Viper, heavens no...this is America, the land of Free choices. People sometimes infer that because I or someone else don't like something that the other person who owns it must be an idiot for buying it.....for me I am just offering my thoughts no different than anyone else to stimulate discussion...after all, these are Discussion Forums, Peace!
Now this is the stupidest post I've seen in a while.
Assuming that you're correct in saying 97% prefer the C7, and those that don't voted for Obama.
Sorry, but you've outed yourself as a troll with that post.
Reading this thread is akeen to my arguments with my 16 year old girlfriend, when I was 16. By the end of the argument, neither party remembered what the argument was about.
Reading this thread is akeen to my arguments with my 16 year old girlfriend, when I was 16. By the end of the argument, neither party remembered what the argument was about.
You've done well Karnack! I do not like them only because it was cool in its day and I'm just not into that styling anymore....kinda like Antiques...some people love them (like me) and others hate them (which is fine) because again, we shouldn't be critical of opinions and likes/dislikes because no one should ever push their tastes onto you, but we can be critical of mis-represented facts. And speaking of Retro I also do not appreciate the Retro 5th Gen Camaro, New Mustang or Challenger....I think the originals are the classic and they've taken great cars from the past and tarnished their legacy by restyling the cars rather than relying on good ole American ingenuity and just coming out with "new" styles that would be the future classic's. I attribute this to stogy old white guys in senior executive positions at the Big Three unwilling to take appropriate risk versus the reward.....I can tell you that as a guy that clearly resembles "stogy old white guy" that if I was a Vehicle Line Executive with 650-700+HP available for whatever project got my whim that I would empower a young design team to come up with the next "world killer car", not something that was conservative in nature to be "politically correct" but that's just me And now that you have me on a ranting roll, I feel the same way about Big Screen movie remakes......for heavens sake, come up with something new, don't rehash the past because you lack creativity and leadership.
You're 100% correct, my opinion has ZERO bearing on this...hey we agree! I just think it's strange that the target market of the Viper don't think so otherwise they'd be flocking to buy it, sales would be exceeding expectations and Dodge could actually afford to raise the car's price just like GM did with the C6Z, not drop it.
You're right but my problem is that I do take the pieces and add them to the sum and now that Nineball has educated me with the Retro design legacy of the Viper I fully understand why it is so displeasing personally to me....Dodge has still left a "retro" cab to be integrated into a modern looking body and I find this very aesthetically displeasing because the design elements (for me, not everyone) clash. Clearly the delemia for the Dodge design Team was how do we keep the look of the car "Viper" but also make it more appealing because as Tony also agrees, the first generations will not go down as "styling classic's"....more of a styling flop! Dodge should have just dropped the "Viper cab" look and redesigned the car in it's entirety and I'd bet it would be a raging success because I will also admit that some portions of the style are very nice, just not the package as a whole (to me and a lot of others in the target audience). Of course this is probably my 4 decades of applying architectural design influence that has tainted me where I pay an inordinate amount of attention to scale, proportion, sizing and style on projects that I'm involved with
Four decades of architectural design........ give me a break that means squat when it comes to having good old taste..... I'm sure some people thought the Aztec was great looking.
Corvette is always going to be a nice looking car, although I will never like the rear of the C7 , and it has nothing to do with tailight shape, the viper has and will always be the better looking car IMO , and the opinion of most people who have eyesight.
Also this whole thread is about performance, not look, which makes your whole post even more worthless, the viper has been the better performing car since it was introduced, the Z06 outperformed it one year, and although the Zr1 has been going back and fourth with viper, records don't lie.
So, I had a week to ponder a few comments (excuses?) from the group, regarding my driving abilities vs the skills of Nspec in his black C7Z. With that in mind, I arranged some runs against two factory 10-second Italian cars, with dual-clutch automatic transmissions. Surely, those automatics could out-shift a lowly manual Viper, right? Just like a few here think the A8 Z06 will beat me, or that it will do better than the M7 Z06 did.
Nope. You are looking at a 135 mph trap speed Huracan - with a Viper on it's door. How well do you think a 126 mph A8 Z06 will do?
12-20-2014, 01:14 PM
Also loving that new SUV porsche. Those would make a fun daily 
And now that you have me on a ranting roll, I feel the same way about Big Screen movie remakes......for heavens sake, come up with something new, don't rehash the past because you lack creativity and leadership.
Discussion Forums, Peace!
