I'm not even sure why they put coupe-spec ZO7 (or even ZO6) springs in the ZO6 convertible at all, since it can't be tracked. I think it was just to prove the merits of the substructure, and spring rates will be revised in the Convertible. Such statements usually bring out the "rude posers", but more on that later.

Frankly, about 0.08% of the people here could push a 1984 C4 to its limits, to be honest about it. Heck, barely 1% could cut a good lap time in a Neon (which is why racing schools don't start you out in a ZO6).

Lots of Internet heroes, but when I go to the Corvette/Porsche/Ferarri club lapping days, it's me, about 2 other Corvettes, and 50 of the others. Worse still are drag race events. After 30 minutes I was the only car racing on Corvette night - literally. Got my own lane for the whole night. Ran a couple of dozen hot laps until I was bored. Dozens of Corvettes in the pits though being waxed. I've never understood that. Wax can be applied at home and without a lawnchair nearby. At the track? Even if that was a good idea it's too dusty. Must be reflex.

But if you -dare- imply you think the ZO7 might be too harsh, you'll get slapped on here pretty quick for not being a real man, not the "right person" for a ZO6 at all, and so on.

At some point I realized the most vocal people in the ZO6 forums don't own one, so even as an old longtime (12 year) member I don't ask much around here anymore. If I wanted to be yelled at online I'd see if Hib Halverson was still alive.

What's the Internet slang for "rude poser"?

 

Mostly for the poseurs, yes. But, just think: GM provided a perfectly functional convertible foundation. It's up to the end user to decide if they want to be a poseur, or head to the race track with it. If the latter, they'll need to make some significant chassis modifications, but the potential is there. It wasn't in previous gen cars.

And 86% of all statistics on the Internet are made up. Your point?

I don't know which track or tracks you go to regularly. Over the last decade or so, I've been seeing a very steady and rapid increase in Corvette participation at my local track. Most of the hot dogs don't go to "Corvette" days, because "Corvette" days are usually run by poseur organizations that just want to give people a 50MPH lap around a race track in their own cars. Go to the open track days, or the generic HPDE events or whatever. Lots and lots of Corvettes there. And well-driven ones, too.

Halverson is still alive and well, and if he's yelling at you, you probably deserve it. I've been in more "hostile engagements" with him than you'll ever know back in the mailing list days (before Internet forums existed). He used to slap me around like a red-headed step child. And I earned every one of those hits.

 

Oh I was on the old listservs long before there was a web. 1989 is as old as I remember though, it probably predates me too.

I'll get to your perfectly valid points above later today, but for Hib: yeah, he slapped me around a couple of times when I was an idiot.

But he also acted that way when I was completely right. As a random *** example, he always had a hard-on for Redline oil. I wouldn't use it in new cars because it wasn't SAE certified. I figured it's not cheap to do, but if it's good oil, and you want me to use it, get it certified for new car warranties.

That led to a complete meltdown, because it was close to his heart (or wallet, but I really do assume heart). So you really had to be self-confident enough to slap him back, but be -really- sure you're right when you do.

Ever deal with a knowledgeable toddler who knows as much as you do and narrow areas even more than you? No, of course not, but it's like that. Sometimes you have to shut up and listen to learn from him. But sometimes the toddler needs his hand slapped too.

Ultimately I, like a lot of other people, just left because of him. Some people I'm glad left. But when I left they lost a lot of useful knowledge as well, and at some point, you have to wonder if he contributed as much as he cost in terms of driving people away. It's not a safe bet either direction.

 

Tadge has already mentioned a software update to MR For the track setting based off of the willow springs analysis. He mentioned it will be available through GMPP However I am not sure if this is free or comes at a cost. Info was in the "ask Tadge" thread when he responded.

Does anyone know when this will be available?

 

I have a Z07 and drive in Sport mode 95% of the time. It rides great and at least as well as my 991 GT3 which rides well already. The Z07 is a perfectly comfortable DD.

 

None of that information has been decided upon officially. So no, no one here knows because no one at GM knows yet.

 

You do understand that an NHRA track requires a full roll cage for a ZO6 convertible, right? Not a bar. A full cage. Because it's a convertible.

I don't know if SCCA is better or worse, but you can't just buy a ZO6 convertible and track it any manner befitting its abilities without serious modifications.

And that, kind sir, is why I think it's silly to sell track suspension in a car that can't be tracked. The convertible should have been built as a GT, in my mind. Because (a) that's whose largely buying convertibles anyway, and (b) you can't use all of that amazing substructure for anything but touring anyway (without a cage).

You might have me on the "over the last decade" part, as I am indeed talking about experiences from just before that.

Never been to a "Corvette" day, it's always been a Corvette/Ferarri/Something day. But it could be that's what the waxers come out to.

I'm in between. I like coming out of the last turn onto the straight at about 135mph, but I'm not comfy having someone pass me on the inside while I'm doing it. I am not a hard-core road course guy. After my first set of track tires wore out, I realized I didn't need track tires, as I admitted that I was the limitation, not the tires. After selling the C4 with the bar and requisite safety equipment, I went less often. I considered keeping the old C6ZO6 for that purpose, but hard to justify while they're still worth 40-ish on trade. Now I want my old C4 back for that...

I should add (what I believe to be) an interesting anecdote here. When I still had Progressive (I think) I asked if a non-timed, non-competitive event at a track could be considered driver education. They agreed, and gave me a letter agreeing that (for that type of event at least) I'd be insured. I actually saw an F50 hit the wall and explode in front of me the very next time. But then when my wife spent 15 minutes and switched us, I asked the new company the same thing. They laughed, and laughed... well not really. But I've never been able to convince another major insurer to insure me at the track when it's not timed.

I do remember one additional stipulation in the letter was that the non-timed event could not be practice for a near-term timed event. So they'd thought it through, it wasn't just like I found someone clueless that day.

Glad to hear that, literally. I was going to go into the whole "useful pedant" speech, but if he's alive and well, and I'm still smarter, better looking, and a better writer, then we're cool. We're cool.

 

Firstly, I don't think GM cares (I certainly don't, that's for sure) what the NHRA requires. Going fast in a straight line for a short period of time isn't what the Corvette is designed to do.

As for the SCCA, I think you're confusing actual racing with track days here. Any Corvette will require a full on roll cage to participate in racing events. Convertible or coupe. Again, what we're referencing here are track days. HPDE. That sort of thing. And with that, a convertible such as the Corvette would need a roll bar, not a cage.

With that said, bonding a steel roll bar to the convertible's aluminum chassis isn't a simple case of peeling up some carpet and welding it in. It does take some extra work and will likely cost accordingly.

I would argue, much to the chagrin of a lot of Corvette owners and fans, that the entire Corvette line-up has been more GT based and less sports car based for several generations now. At least as far back as the C4; perhaps even further back. It's a stalwart GT, capable of holding its own in most any circumstance. As the chief engineer likes to say, the car has a lot of bandwidth and the C7 expands that bandwidth even further.

We're meandering off-topic here but: none of the majors will cover a car in an HPDE or other non-timed event. What their contracts all say is something to the effect of: "not on a surface prepped for racing". In other words: a race track. For that, supplemental track insurance is readily available.

 

I think some people have difficulty comparing ride quality when they live in states like Texas or Arizona where the road surfaces look like a billiard table compared to Iowa.

I have not driven a Z07, but there is no doubt that my Z06 has a much harsher ride than my C7 Z51. I would even say that the ride in Tour is rougher than the Z51 in Sport. Keep in mind the larger tires will not help the ride quality and the ability to respond to bumps. Combined with the stiffer springs it's not going to be able to match the Z51 ride. My friend has a standard C7, and it responds to bumps even better.

My point is, if you live in one of those states that have the nice roads, I'm sure you could justify the Z07 ride. People who live in states where the roads get beat up every winter may want to think hard about it.

 

JVP, I did get coverage for tracks, as I noted, so long as they weren't timed. Can't find that in a standard policy anymore. What kind supplemental insurance is there? If it's per-event, it might be great for me, but if its per year, I'm likely not out there enough to warrant it.

We may indeed be talking about two different things. I wouldn't take a convertible (without a cage) around any road course in more than an 8/10ths fashion. I don't want to brake with my helmet if it flips. I'm talking only lapping and track-day stuff. I'll start Googling HDPE, looks interesting from an initial glance. The fact that it's an initial glance for me tells you what you need to know I imagine.

I still think the full ZO7 setup in a convertible is more about saying you have the ZO7 setup in a convertible (for the owners) and that it works (for the manufacturer). But in the end, here's what I know with absolute certainty:

-I- wish the suspension could be tuned in-car, or heck, at the spring (not sure how) for both types of use. Or, if not possible, default to GT spec for the convertible.

I can't assert that's the right thing, and I can't prove it's the best thing, I only know it's what I want and I can argue others would too. No more.

On Todd's "bad roads" thing, here's actually what prompted a lot of this:

I live in Seattle. But I'm from Regina, SK. The ground freezes to about an 8' depth in the -40 winter and then the summers are scorchers at or near 100F at times. So with the continual freeze/thaw/heave the roads are -horrible-. And repair amount to guys in a truck shovelling asphalt into holes in the spring.

Down here I have a C6ZO6. For me it's good for 200 miles, after that, it's tiring. But visiting my brother up there a number of years back (but still after I'd owned the Z for a few years) he drove me around in his base C5 convertible. It road like a Cadillac compared to my C6ZO6 and good thing, too, because the roads are way worse.

I don't want it -that- soft, but it'd be nice to approach that in "Tour". Then C6ZO6 level in "Track". Then let the hardcore track guys option it up to ZO7 if they want that option.

Unless you're reached the level of Steve Jobs being able to "tell" consumers what they want because they didn't know, I suppose. But I don't think GM has that kind of dominance.

All that said, how much press have you read about the convertible being unchanged from the coupe? Tons. So it's worked for that purpose.

 

Right. Most of the majors won't do it now. They got wise to all of the totaled claims on "private roads" and whatnot, and just decided to decline coverage. Very few every specifically listed track events as being covered (there are exceptions, of course). But now days, most of them just flat out refuse on-track.

It depends on the company you go with; I know the NCM fronts one of the popular ones. They usually do a "per event" type of thing. I don't use them, but I know people that swear by them; financially it makes all sorts of sense, of course.

HPDE just means High Performance Driver Education. In other words: instructed track day. Not timed, no competition, nothing like that. We're talking about the same sort of thing, I think. And while you wouldn't personally drive a 'vert on track without a cage, a cage isn't required for those events. Just a roll bar. It's not till you get to the competition level that full cages are needed, but that applies to any car.

If there was an affordable way to have some sort of adjustable sway bar and spring rate in the car, then you could get your wish. But those two bits are static at this point in time; the only true variable is how the MSRC is tuned.

Actually, I think GM is doing precisely the opposite in this case. They listened to their customers of Z06s and ZR1s as well as customers they lost; folks who insisted on having a high(er) performance convertible but couldn't get it with either of those two cars. So they figured out a way to make it, and did so. The same applies to the automatic transmission in the car.

 

You know what? I think you're right. And in this case I think I'm the Steve Jobs who knows what the customers -really- want, as opposed to what they think they want.

Arrogant? Probably. Delusional? Maybe. But I bet if you whacked it back 10% on spring rates for convertible owners and didn't -tell- them, they'd actually like the car better.

I imagine we would both agree that suspensions -can- be tuned at the spring and sway bar level, but not in our cars. The C7.R uses coilovers, which I used to think were just a superior setup, but I think it's because you can adjust them per-track in a way you can't with a transverse fibreglass leaf spring (not 100% sure it's still fibreglass). Once you've dialed in a production car, coilovers only make sense for the track, and only for drivers that will set up their car on a per-track basis.

I have an even bigger contradiction in terms: a Range Rover Autobiography. One of the world's best off-road chassis, the foundation of innumerable military vehicles, the British Humvee if you will. And then they rip out the diesel 6 cylinder and put a 510hp supercharged, direct-injection gasonline engine in it. Then you add the Autobiography package for $25K that adds bespoke leather everywhere. I mean both the wood -and- the leather parts of the steering wheel are heated. There are so many options and accessories the alternator is water cooled (no joke). Heating on all 5 seats, two (front and rear windshields), two mirrors, steering wheel, and all of that takes power!

Then you take it to the mall. There's absolutely no reason that you need that kind of off-road ability in the suburbs, and while I've had mine offroad, I can't go down any trail that might have brush that would touch my paint. How silly is that?

And in that case too I'd argue that the mall-cruiser doesn't need the milspec off-road hardware. But of course even I -want- it. Right up to the point where it would compromise the ride quality, which is about where I entered this conversation...

I do wish Range Rover had licensed magride from Delphi (or GM) though. Would have been even better, no doubt. I could only find a British picture, so grab a mirror please:




And actually it's just gratuitous to add this one, but really? In a truck?

 

I evaluate ride quality as a profession every day. I have to say that my Z07 ride quality is significantly better than my 2007 Z06, at least as good as my 09 CTS-V, and the VERY best of any performance car I've ever driven. I would rank it in the top 5 of ANY car, luxury or performance.

You do, however, have several different performance modes that you can set on the car. My comments above pertain to touring mode. In track mode it stiffens up considerably...to the level that most people would consider unacceptable [if you were forced to live with only one mode].

This car has raised the bar for the rest of our product line...by a lot.

 

That's a pretty strong statement. I won't dispute it, but I'd like to see you sort this alphabetical list by ride quality (not Max Gs). I included 6 for your list of 5 so that the lifeboat has one too many, and you have to cut one as inferior to the ZO7. I honestly think it'll be tough to do:

Bentley Arnage
BMW 760L
Chevrolet Corvette ZO7
Lexus LS460L
Mercedes-Benz S600 ABC
Rolls Royce Phantom

 

http://www.ls1howto.com/index.php?article=20

(Buy a Z07 and lighten up on the springs if need be temporarily!)

 

Interesting link! It should likely be noted that (and this is just a guess, I don't know) that a lot of the computer calibrations from things as far ranging as ABS and electronic power steering may have the spring rates factored in. If you change them, the other stuff could be wrong.

Same deal I imagine if people that buy the ZO7 then wear out the Cup tires and go to something more conventional. Perhaps that throws off things too that were based on assumptions about the tire's grip, etc.

 

Although the performance is tempting, I don't like the price or the appearance and I'm not going to have it on a track so I decided against it. I'm glad I read this because I was having second thoughts but now I'm good - thanks.

 

Many current owners will disagree with both of you. I hope you get the car you want--either Z06 is amazing!!

 

I have a Z07. Went cruising this past weekend for the first time (1000 miles now). IMO switching to Tour mode softens the car out just right. Had the top off, didn't go slow, but carried on a conversation, no teeth loosened and fell out.

I am absolutely satisfied with my Z07.

 

well I test drove a z07 in Mass on some bad roads and in tour mode it was absolutely fine. I am 39 years old and drive a 2015 2500 gmc denali diesel everyday to work so the z07 rides like a cadillac compared to my daily. I sold a ZL1 to buy the Z06 and that was a very nice riding car in tour but very stiff in track on nh roads nice on smooth surfaces. I ran it in sport most of the time unless i was on a real bad road. My 67 yr old dad owns a zl1 and he has no complaints with the ride. I will let him drive my Z06 home and see what he has to say about the ride in tour as compared to his ZL1. I have ordered another set of wheels to put the michelin pilot super sports on to drive on the streets as I do not want to wear out the cup 2s for street use I will save them for the track. I will not be pushing the car anywhere near the limits of the lesser pilot super sports on the streets so I am not worried.