musclesbmf

I mean no disrespect, but posts like this make me chuckle. That's like saying the engineers put the best designed exhaust on, or the best ECM tune in the car. We know this to not be the case and for good reason. The engineers have other parameters to consider besides performance. They have to deal with noise pollution mandates, EPA pollution mandates, MPG requirements, cost, etc.... That's why the aftermarket comes along and spends time and money to offer us "gear heads" the best PERFORMANCE solutions available.

Enjoy in good health,
Mark

lawdogg149

Anyone every get any real numbers on this test? For a $63 filter and increase of over 65 CFM surely someone has tried it.

1QUICK Z

I have the K&N filter installed in the stock air box. Can't say that I can tell any difference. Never had a before and after dyno. I bit the bullet and ordered a Halltech intake. Oh well. It was worth a try.

rectifyer2000

Most have read the performance gains achieved by installing the Halltech. The gains have been well documented and are very impressive, especially without a tune. I was so onboard, but always wondered about filtration sacrifices that must come with enhanced air flow.

After reading the link above, it makes me wonder where the Halltech system ranks as far as actual filtration? Sure it provides gains, but at what cost to actually filtering the crud in our air? Are we letting a bunch of crap inside our engines with the Halltech? That's what the link above would lead me to believe, so now I'm back on the fence.

Chrjones2

Doesn't the lingenfelter package use the stock intake with their "green filter"? Has anyone tried installing a green filter on a stock intake to see if there was a power gain at all?

dar02081961

If you go to the Halltech site or K&N site and research you will find that increased airflow doesn't require less filtration. If I recall (I am getting old fellows) K&N was originally made for Baja racers that required gobs of air AND very good filtration. The folds increase surface area thereby allowing more CFM to be filtered and pass through a given area with less restriction.

Filtration (debris) shouldn't be an issue.

TTRotary

First, I would not run the Halltech without a tune. +50 BHP without touching the fuel tables and no increase in boost means all the power is coming from leaning out the AFR. This is dangerous. There is a reason the engineers run the LT4 at 12.3 under boost and not 13.3. Huge difference inside the cylinder, and it will only show up in the EGTs. That is why the cat overtemp warning is coming on.

Halltech should NOT be marketed as a no-tune intake.

Filtration should be fine, but will obviously be removing less particulate than paper.

Halltech

Boost is increased in every dyno test done. Parasitic losses are recovered as well. Air fuel ratio is meaningless if you are using 14.7:1 software using 14.1:1 fuel with the wideband. Our intake runs .88 Lambda, which is 12.4:1 using the e10 fuel available everywhere or 13:1 on dynos with 14.7:1 software. After the COTP kicks in it drops into the 10s.



Please be sure of your facts before posting related to our intake system.




Lambda =14.7:1 <br/>Fuel = 14.1:1 Use .959 correction to see actual air fuel ratio.

Our Stinger-RZ is used by over 25 shops that are forum sponsors, and some tune, some do not. My guess is that if the air fuel ratio was outside of the 13:1 (actual ratio), shops would insist on tuning or not install our intake.

TTRotary

That is not what is stated in other commentary (see page 1 of thread). Would be useful to see this. This is not shown anywhere. How much did it go up?

Huh? What does that mean? I hope you are not claiming your setup increases compressor efficiency... If in fact there is more boost, then: more boost-> more heat -> higher IATs -> requires richer AFR.

It is certainly not meaningless to me. In one of your graphs, I see AFR going to nearly 13.5 at 4500-5500 rpm under torque peak. Looks too lean to me. The other graphs have no AFR at all. As a consumer, I am not comfortable purchasing this intake without seeing all the info: AFR, boost, IATs, and EGTs. Only then can one get a complete picture of what is going on. You even stae in another thread (that was shut down) that the power was coming from a leaner mixture.


What I posted was an opinion, not a fact. As already indicated, key information (facts) are lacking in the dyno information provided thus far.

I am not willing to risk my engine on a guess. My opinion as a consumer. The product is definitely very effective and of high quality and the performance is there. I just think it needs a tune to be 100% safe.

Redc8z06

I know the engineers personally at Lingenfelter the green filter will get you 10hp.

johnglenntwo

Again! And DI is actually quite a bit different.

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...g-results.html

3 Z06ZR1

Looks safe to me and my car has been running better to prove it!

Halltech

I don't blame you for keeping it stock. That is what you should do.

The air fuel ratio is under 13 and you might look up how to convert Lambda 1.00 for different fuels. I tried to explain it, but my best did not work. When the wideband software assumption is Lambda 1.00= 14.7:1 and the fuel used is stoichiometric at 14.1:1, Lambda 1.00 is 14.1:1 not 14.7:1. Conversion would be .959 X 13= 12.4:1

We have every major dealer on the forum is ordering our intake, and reordering after testing. If you have concerns, the simple answer is to leave your car stock until the warranty drops, then consider all your options.

We do not expect everyone on the forum to jump onboard.

TTRotary

Interesting info and Andy did indeed run a fair test. I have a lot of respect for Andy, but some of his comments concern me, especially that 10-11 AFR is way too rich. I have modded a number of turbo cars in my past, including one of the fastest T66 MKIV Supras in the country, and more turbo rotaries than I can count. 10-11 AFR under boost is always the norm. It is certainly not desirable from a power perspective, but it is absolutely necessary from a longevity standpoint, because it is unburnt fuel in the intake charge which controls the in-cylinder temps and EGTs to a manageable level. The type of fuel injection has little bearing on this, and DI is no different.

The basic elements are: ATM intake charge is compressed by some device, heat is thereby added, such heat is then removed (or not) by an charge-cooling device, fuel atomization in the cylinder further reduces temperatures, and combustion adds heat and energy. The efficiency compression device, charge-cooling device, AFR richness, all play a role in controlling the EGTs and therefore the ability to approach a more ideal AFR.

Unfortunately, the type of compressor used in the LT4 is one of the least efficient in use - that is - it adds much more heat per unit of compression than most other devise out there. Turbochargers are the most efficient - they add the least heat. Compounding this, the charge-cooler used on the Z06 and ZR1 is also a poor heat-exchange device. It lacks capacity, recovery and flow. A large intercooler would be preferable, but could not be used due to packaging limitations. The Zo6's intercooler is good for occasional use, but that is it. It certainly cannot be relied upon for continuous use. What this means it that you have IATs on the Z06 that may well be 150-200F higher than they would be for an ideal intercooled turbo setup under sustained use (i.e. racetrack). They probably also run 50F (admittedly a guess) higher than the ZR1 under similar load conditions due to the smaller (and therefore less efficient) blower on the Z06.

Andy has done thousands of supercharger installs, and he's right as regards appropriate AFRs for those setups, which use a more efficient (less heat) centri blower plus intercooling. But for the stock Z06 setup, with its significant compromises, 10-11 AFR is unfortunately about right.

I think people would be shocked at how high the EGTs get for this car under certain operating conditions. The cats can tolerate high EGTs long after the pistons have melted. The fact that GM sees the need to maintain 10-11AFR to preclude cat overtemp says a lot about the amount of heat in the cylinders.

I repeat that I do not think it is appropriate to call this a no-tune intake until we have seen evidence that the stock system and tune can maintain acceptable EGTs under continuous load conditions. Again, if you are getting cat overtemp warnings, that should be telling you all you need to know about whether it is safe or not. And you can be sure that if the tech sees those overtemp instances and sees an aftermarket intake in there, they will void the warranty.

TTRotary

Qualifier: My comments apply to folks who intend to operate the car under high-load conditions...e.g. NORCALSS on a racetrack - in fact, seeing him being interested in the Halltech what brought this to mind.

If your intended use for the car is pretty much normal driving with a stoplight challenge or a few passes at the strip, I would agree that the Halltech intake with no tune is probably just fine. If you intend to do canyon carving, HPDEs etc., then I strongly suggest one get a tune with this CAI.

Again, no disrespect to Halltech, who produces an outstanding product with proven performance ( I am a customer), or to Andy, who has forgotten more about tuning in one minute than I will ever know.

TTRotary

Less restriction or more restriction has no effect whatsoever on the adiabatic efficiency of a compressor within a given but large flow range. If the compressor is inefficient (as is the case with the modified Lysholm screws used in the Z06), then it will remain inefficient regardless of the airflow rate. Read Boyle's Gas Law and the laws of thermodynamics and then look at a compressor map for a turbocharger and you will see what I mean.

If a blower compresses the intake charge to 10 psi over ambient pressure and adds 300F to the ambient charge temperature in doing so, it will have this effect whether you are flowing 800CFM through the motor or 600CFM through it.

johnglenntwo

Andy said the overtemp protection came on stock just the same.
A BMW FI tuner write up I read on DI says below 12.5 is a waste, so differing opinions.
The car has been to the track and driven by Pilgram, it would have melted down by now if it wasn't working. I don't think he said anything about it pulling timing either!
The radiator looks to be the biggest heat problem, and is supposed to be fixed.
This piece isn't going anywhere, and the truth will reign supreme just the way I like it!

TTRotary

Well that's a good point...

3 Z06ZR1

I look at the total efficiency of the whole package.
You can rattle off all you want. The Lt4 with 700hp (620's rwhp M7)
with the Halltech installed. By the no matter your opinion of what you think of the Halltech it really opened the Lt4 up.
that gets lets see I saw 26.9 today driving in to work today.
Could really careless about your opinion's. Your knowledge is not a pimple on Jim Halls behind. About Intake design.

johnglenntwo

"Just get some octane booster and call it good!" It works too.