Karting to HPDE
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Karting to HPDE
Hello gentleman,
I'm planning on doing my first HPDE at sebring in the near future and I have very little experience in cars on the track. I have a pretty heavy background in kart racing, mostly tag karts and a bit of shifter. I'm wondering how much this background will help in transitioning to cars, any advice or personal experience would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Matthew
I'm planning on doing my first HPDE at sebring in the near future and I have very little experience in cars on the track. I have a pretty heavy background in kart racing, mostly tag karts and a bit of shifter. I'm wondering how much this background will help in transitioning to cars, any advice or personal experience would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Matthew
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,084
Likes: 3,056
From: CA
Hello gentleman,
I'm planning on doing my first HPDE at sebring in the near future and I have very little experience in cars on the track. I have a pretty heavy background in kart racing, mostly tag karts and a bit of shifter. I'm wondering how much this background will help in transitioning to cars, any advice or personal experience would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Matthew
I'm planning on doing my first HPDE at sebring in the near future and I have very little experience in cars on the track. I have a pretty heavy background in kart racing, mostly tag karts and a bit of shifter. I'm wondering how much this background will help in transitioning to cars, any advice or personal experience would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Matthew
Have fun!
Michael
Pro
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 715
Likes: 0
From: Philly Area PA
Hello gentleman,
I'm planning on doing my first HPDE at sebring in the near future and I have very little experience in cars on the track. I have a pretty heavy background in kart racing, mostly tag karts and a bit of shifter. I'm wondering how much this background will help in transitioning to cars, any advice or personal experience would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Matthew
I'm planning on doing my first HPDE at sebring in the near future and I have very little experience in cars on the track. I have a pretty heavy background in kart racing, mostly tag karts and a bit of shifter. I'm wondering how much this background will help in transitioning to cars, any advice or personal experience would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Matthew
Good luck!
V10LEE
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 445
Likes: 3
From: Central Coast Cali
Hello gentleman,
I'm planning on doing my first HPDE at sebring in the near future and I have very little experience in cars on the track. I have a pretty heavy background in kart racing, mostly tag karts and a bit of shifter. I'm wondering how much this background will help in transitioning to cars, any advice or personal experience would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Matthew
I'm planning on doing my first HPDE at sebring in the near future and I have very little experience in cars on the track. I have a pretty heavy background in kart racing, mostly tag karts and a bit of shifter. I'm wondering how much this background will help in transitioning to cars, any advice or personal experience would be greatly appreciated.
Cheers
Matthew
My new Tony Kart.
Racer
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 463
Likes: 4
From: Park City, UT
Having karting under your belt you will pick things up really quick in a car. Cars react much slower compared to karts. The quick reflexes from karting you will be able to push a car much harder with more confidence. Braking, accelerating, correcting etc, and take it to another level compared to someone without. I've done karting for about 3 years now. I also have a TAG kart. It was a Italkart with a Parrilla Leopard 125cc motor. I upgraded to a Tony Kart roller now . With that said, I never went to any car driving schools etc. Just 3 years of karting. I think driving schools don't help unless you can attend, do it once a month. I go to my kart track and practice every month to keep my driving skills sharpened. Go out there on a open track day. Chase, follow the pro karters , and time my laps. Karting is the best way to learn how to drive period. Keeps you in good shape , mentally + physically..
My new Tony Kart.
My new Tony Kart.
How do you get past the nausea?
I just took my kid to a day at an indoor karting place and had a blast. But, wow... the nausea kicked in early on in the first of 3 sessions. I powered through it on all 3 sessions and found it was better with more airflow.
I've driven track days, and HPDE, but nothing threw me around as violently as the quick changes in G-forces as the kart did. Hopefully, it was the borrowed helmet and the smell of the electric motors that made me nauseous.
V10LEE
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 445
Likes: 3
From: Central Coast Cali
Great pics and interesting background!
How do you get past the nausea?
I just took my kid to a day at an indoor karting place and had a blast. But, wow... the nausea kicked in early on in the first of 3 sessions. I powered through it on all 3 sessions and found it was better with more airflow.
I've driven track days, and HPDE, but nothing threw me around as violently as the quick changes in G-forces as the kart did. Hopefully, it was the borrowed helmet and the smell of the electric motors that made me nauseous.
How do you get past the nausea?
I just took my kid to a day at an indoor karting place and had a blast. But, wow... the nausea kicked in early on in the first of 3 sessions. I powered through it on all 3 sessions and found it was better with more airflow.
I've driven track days, and HPDE, but nothing threw me around as violently as the quick changes in G-forces as the kart did. Hopefully, it was the borrowed helmet and the smell of the electric motors that made me nauseous.
Last edited by LEE427; May 12, 2015 at 11:52 AM.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
I agree. The indoor tracks are also normally pretty small. You have to try a tag kart. It's like going from a bicycle to a motorcycle. I drive a Tony with a rotax 125. It's a blast. 30 hp pushing 365 lbs equals a lot of fun and 2.5 to 3gs will really work you out.
I took the zo6 out for a drive on a nice curvy road and occasionally hit .9 g last night and I was think of how much more fun the road would have been in my kart, then the road opened up and I enjoyed the huge rush of horsepower and tq and I just smiled
I took the zo6 out for a drive on a nice curvy road and occasionally hit .9 g last night and I was think of how much more fun the road would have been in my kart, then the road opened up and I enjoyed the huge rush of horsepower and tq and I just smiled
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Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Yep your correct, a properly set up shifter kart, will corner at a rib bruising neck wrenching 3g ride. If you want to be competitive, you will spend more than the amount of a sm block Chevy crate engine; To power your kart, that ain't no joke.
PS That "Swede Tech" engine lives bout ten hours if that...
PS That "Swede Tech" engine lives bout ten hours if that...
V10LEE
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 445
Likes: 3
From: Central Coast Cali
Instead of paint; Just a few suggestions if you get more serious than just for the fun of it.
1. Longmire scales, suited in your kart, scale her. Don't let some clown put a block of wood under the frame and jump on the chassis. if you get real interested pm me I will explain.
2. Purchase your own four wheel alignment tools, start a log book with caster camber toe for the tracks you visit.
3. Accurate air pressure gage, keeping in mind depending on the weather your going to start out three to four pounds less than your optimal pressure; To reach your goal during an event.
4. Dial indicator, I rolled the rear axle every single time after an event and recorded measurements. At a certain point even though the karts have more rear protection than mine did at the time. One can still bend an axle. (just wait till you have the pleasure of changing it the first time)
5. Chain adjustment/lube, I ran mine loose to the point of just about ready to jump off. Transmits more power to the drive axle, easier on the bearings.
6. Speaking of the block bearings, they do need lubrication. Mine came sealed, and I removed the cover on one side, carefully drilled a 3/32 hole. Reinstalled, then before each event sprayed lubricant into the bearing cage.
7. Mix your own fuel, never ever use track fuel. If your do you will know why I recommended you DO not. Hint, not continually mixed, seized motor, big bucks. Track Owner, can't imagine why that would have ever happened...
8. Between rounds or after a track day drain transmission fluid. Go over EVERY nut and bolt. Really, better than parts flying off mid corner. Every Nut and Bolt...
9. Purchase a tire break down tool, and build or buy a tire balancer.
10 Have at least two sets of mounted wheels and tires. Breaking down tires is something not enjoyable between rounds. Also torque the wheel nuts, I used torque in relation to the chart for diameter, if you know what I mean.
May seem like a lot of hassle I suppose. I just don't like being passed by some 16 Year Old, mid corner. Also didn't like loading my equipment and leaving before an event was completed.
How could I have forgot one of the most important. When you really get serious, you will need to scrap that seat. You will eventually get tired of hanging onto the steering column with your knees mid corner. If your look at mine, it was a true Carbon Fiber Custom seat made to fit myself. One had to turn ones body sideways then straighten out to lock in. (Get A Good Rib Protector) Only then could I concentrate on driving rather than attempting to stay in the kart. Been outa it for over a decade, but that seat was over a grand at that time. Another suggestion is struts, if you look at mine, there were two per side. Why, well then went to different sides of the rear bearing blocks. When one corners that hard it transfers more of the weight to the side needing more traction. Definitely helps putting down power exiting corners...
1. Longmire scales, suited in your kart, scale her. Don't let some clown put a block of wood under the frame and jump on the chassis. if you get real interested pm me I will explain.
2. Purchase your own four wheel alignment tools, start a log book with caster camber toe for the tracks you visit.
3. Accurate air pressure gage, keeping in mind depending on the weather your going to start out three to four pounds less than your optimal pressure; To reach your goal during an event.
4. Dial indicator, I rolled the rear axle every single time after an event and recorded measurements. At a certain point even though the karts have more rear protection than mine did at the time. One can still bend an axle. (just wait till you have the pleasure of changing it the first time)
5. Chain adjustment/lube, I ran mine loose to the point of just about ready to jump off. Transmits more power to the drive axle, easier on the bearings.
6. Speaking of the block bearings, they do need lubrication. Mine came sealed, and I removed the cover on one side, carefully drilled a 3/32 hole. Reinstalled, then before each event sprayed lubricant into the bearing cage.
7. Mix your own fuel, never ever use track fuel. If your do you will know why I recommended you DO not. Hint, not continually mixed, seized motor, big bucks. Track Owner, can't imagine why that would have ever happened...
8. Between rounds or after a track day drain transmission fluid. Go over EVERY nut and bolt. Really, better than parts flying off mid corner. Every Nut and Bolt...
9. Purchase a tire break down tool, and build or buy a tire balancer.
10 Have at least two sets of mounted wheels and tires. Breaking down tires is something not enjoyable between rounds. Also torque the wheel nuts, I used torque in relation to the chart for diameter, if you know what I mean.
May seem like a lot of hassle I suppose. I just don't like being passed by some 16 Year Old, mid corner. Also didn't like loading my equipment and leaving before an event was completed.
How could I have forgot one of the most important. When you really get serious, you will need to scrap that seat. You will eventually get tired of hanging onto the steering column with your knees mid corner. If your look at mine, it was a true Carbon Fiber Custom seat made to fit myself. One had to turn ones body sideways then straighten out to lock in. (Get A Good Rib Protector) Only then could I concentrate on driving rather than attempting to stay in the kart. Been outa it for over a decade, but that seat was over a grand at that time. Another suggestion is struts, if you look at mine, there were two per side. Why, well then went to different sides of the rear bearing blocks. When one corners that hard it transfers more of the weight to the side needing more traction. Definitely helps putting down power exiting corners...
My next plan is to run a 125cc shifter kart on Laguna Seca. I can't wait to do this!
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
You would hate racing at my local track ocala grand prix because the 16 year olds are rotax national Champs and the girls are fast too. They have a serious race program going on there. All the advice you gave was great. Now I just need HPDE advice.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 2,473
Likes: 255
From: But it's a DRY HEAT! Tucson
i work at one of the best kart tracks in the country. this is my comparision of driving my shifter compared to my z06. the shifter kart is like a down hill skier on a great run down the salom. the z06 is like a summo wrestler trying to do the same.
a heads up kart race, be it tag or shifter, is tons more fun than any hpde in any car. dont get me wrong as my z is on track all the time and i love driving it. its just that kart racing is way more of a rush, way more challenging.
your karting experience will help with your hpde, but they are really very different experiences. have fun at the track
a heads up kart race, be it tag or shifter, is tons more fun than any hpde in any car. dont get me wrong as my z is on track all the time and i love driving it. its just that kart racing is way more of a rush, way more challenging.
your karting experience will help with your hpde, but they are really very different experiences. have fun at the track
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
Buy a tag kart and get some lapping sessions in. Once you feel comfortable hire a mechanic and enter a race. From there you will know how serious you want to be about it. If you love it the real work begins because there is a lot of practice that goes into being fast
V10LEE
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 445
Likes: 3
From: Central Coast Cali
http://www.fastech-racing.com/italka...t-package.html
V10LEE
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 445
Likes: 3
From: Central Coast Cali
Getting Old sucks. I didn't even start until in my fifties. I did however enjoy blowing off the kids then explaining my advanced age to them later.
Mid 60's now, it's just time to take the Vette for a sprint every now and them. And dream about the time I ran down a 250 powered kart, by out cornering him. Hell he sprinted away on the straights, but mine handled, like really handled. I once finished second at a major SKUSA event. I also set up a friends Rotax who won a major event. Only part that I was pissed about, after he stood on the podium and ranted on; He failed to mention my name as the person who set his kart up. I chewed him all the way home, bummer.
Reading you guys stories seeing the karts, makes the hairs stand up on the back of my neck. Well if there were any hairs. Did I mention Old Sucks...
Mid 60's now, it's just time to take the Vette for a sprint every now and them. And dream about the time I ran down a 250 powered kart, by out cornering him. Hell he sprinted away on the straights, but mine handled, like really handled. I once finished second at a major SKUSA event. I also set up a friends Rotax who won a major event. Only part that I was pissed about, after he stood on the podium and ranted on; He failed to mention my name as the person who set his kart up. I chewed him all the way home, bummer.
Reading you guys stories seeing the karts, makes the hairs stand up on the back of my neck. Well if there were any hairs. Did I mention Old Sucks...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 962
Likes: 187
The car wont' be tossable or quick to point/recover as the kart. It just does everything a lot more lazy due to the weight. Keep that in mind when giving inputs.
Let the car float around. If it's squirming and wiggling slightly, you're likely going fast. Dial down the traction control as you feel more comfortable. Carry momentum like you do in karts. Don't late apex everything like they tell you in HPDE classes.
Check tire pressure after each time. If you run the Cup2's, hot pressure for me was ideal around 32-33 front and rear. Watch track videos online from the local fast guys. It's rare the fast guys to run different lines so you'll know any corner tricks they might use, depending on the track.
Let the car float around. If it's squirming and wiggling slightly, you're likely going fast. Dial down the traction control as you feel more comfortable. Carry momentum like you do in karts. Don't late apex everything like they tell you in HPDE classes.
Check tire pressure after each time. If you run the Cup2's, hot pressure for me was ideal around 32-33 front and rear. Watch track videos online from the local fast guys. It's rare the fast guys to run different lines so you'll know any corner tricks they might use, depending on the track.
Thread Starter
Intermediate
Joined: Oct 2013
Posts: 34
Likes: 0
No not really, when I was fully involved I held my own. Yes there are always those who are faster, I have video of my races. My kart handled as good as the best prepared. I was in shape to physically make the end of the race. It was more the lack of power. (holding back a tad to save the equipment) I show up with one engine which has to last the day at least. (The head and cylinder was $1400.00 alone)
I attended a Stars of Karting event. As prepared as I thought I was, in my class I was 4 seconds off the pace of the fastest. As much money as an event costs, I parked her and pitted for my partner with the Rotax. The guy that won his class and failed to give me any credit. I show up one engine which has to last the day at least.
Tractor Trailer shows up, half dozen 6k engines in crates on bench. Two tire racks with mounted front and rears. Paid race mechanic going over the kart, conferring with driver.
I'm not making excuses, but a one man show, changing tires by hand between rounds is a tad harder; (I had a buddy who tried, but didn't know much. GF did the Video and moral support) Than sitting under an easy up, sipping lemonade.
I would recommend a Rotax. There are classes depending on your age and skill level. Since the engines were sealed, you are competing at least power wise on an equal level. The chassis are a drivers choice, the name brands are all good. I ran a CRG with the Rotax. And a SKM with the shifter.
The 250's are scary fast on a "Car" track. I only ran Kart sprint tracks, so never hit the ton on the straights.
To address the car events, there will be instructors. The first time I took my 68 Corvette to the track "SIR" in the fall of 1969. I had a licensed competitor ride along pointing out areas of improvement.
Then we went ten laps and he spun his B/Production Corvette, attempting to keep up.
So in conclusion, Karting is tons of fun. Good exercise, fun day with folks who share the same interest. If your not wanting to bury yourself financially. Rotax, and just enjoy yourself. Try to forget the knot in your stomach as some kid drives by you. You got a house and wife and kids to support. You cannot afford to injure yourself, as YOU need to go to work on Monday. Roger P. is likely not going to offer you a ride in one of his cars.
I attended a Stars of Karting event. As prepared as I thought I was, in my class I was 4 seconds off the pace of the fastest. As much money as an event costs, I parked her and pitted for my partner with the Rotax. The guy that won his class and failed to give me any credit. I show up one engine which has to last the day at least.
Tractor Trailer shows up, half dozen 6k engines in crates on bench. Two tire racks with mounted front and rears. Paid race mechanic going over the kart, conferring with driver.
I'm not making excuses, but a one man show, changing tires by hand between rounds is a tad harder; (I had a buddy who tried, but didn't know much. GF did the Video and moral support) Than sitting under an easy up, sipping lemonade.
I would recommend a Rotax. There are classes depending on your age and skill level. Since the engines were sealed, you are competing at least power wise on an equal level. The chassis are a drivers choice, the name brands are all good. I ran a CRG with the Rotax. And a SKM with the shifter.
The 250's are scary fast on a "Car" track. I only ran Kart sprint tracks, so never hit the ton on the straights.
To address the car events, there will be instructors. The first time I took my 68 Corvette to the track "SIR" in the fall of 1969. I had a licensed competitor ride along pointing out areas of improvement.
Then we went ten laps and he spun his B/Production Corvette, attempting to keep up.
So in conclusion, Karting is tons of fun. Good exercise, fun day with folks who share the same interest. If your not wanting to bury yourself financially. Rotax, and just enjoy yourself. Try to forget the knot in your stomach as some kid drives by you. You got a house and wife and kids to support. You cannot afford to injure yourself, as YOU need to go to work on Monday. Roger P. is likely not going to offer you a ride in one of his cars.