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The coefficient of drag coupled with the progressively increased down force of stage 1 - 2- 3 makes 300 long and hard to get. This is by design compromise though so nothing worrisome if curve/track prowess or 100 to 250 Autobahn runs are the goal here..
Agreed in first step, but if a car's specs say it runs over 300 it should just do it, nothing else is expected (and payed for).
Originally Posted by Telepierre
As for the post hard drive HGW/Autobahn overheat you mention I find it hard to reconcile/verify veracity as I know the 06 is "literally sleeping" at 200km/h @ 2700 RPM so if for "hard drive" we are talking multiple HGY runs in the 80 to 250 Km/h (1000-4000 RPM) causing overheat - I really don't believe it.
Multiple 80 to 250 is what we Germans are allowed to do on the Autobahn - and whatever you're not believe in the one thing you really should belive in is: In Germany we are not only talking about it - we run our car's every day for what they are built
BUT - the wild thing with this ability/behavior is that if the Z06 is not direct put to limp mode then the Z06 electronics will turn down your HP to a level that each upper Bimmer's/Benz's/Audi's will show you their a$$ - and I hope you agree that 130k Euros are too much to get such a treatment.
Originally Posted by Telepierre
IF, the "guy" is trying the same on a 06 AT by constantly burning tires between first and third gear constantly pegged on the 6500 mark to reach his "goal" then I say it's an operator flaw as the torque on the 06 allows the same on taller gears.
Nop - that was not the case.
The guys posting their overheating and HP reduction problems are more than experienced drivers and Corvette owners over at least 2+ model generations - one of them is performance parts manufacturer.
Originally Posted by Telepierre
All said, I would not take an AT to the "green hell" to beat on it...
A manual though should do fine.
Cheers.
Just for the case you have not been in Germany yet and espacially not in the Southern area - the "green hell" is here everywhere and around each corner (including the Autobahn) .
So it is pretty easy to force a car to its limit, especially in the South where it is hilly everywhere.
Now the temps dropping fast - so as another fellow forums member wrote the noise level about overheating will calm down as fast as the temps dropping.
We will see what happens next year as soon as the temps reaching 86F+ (30C+) again in the Z06 hunting grounds around the globe
Hope like all of us that this gorgeous car will get some cooling enhancements by GM so that I can finally pull the trigger like a lot of you have done already - still can feel my blood boiling after the 2 test drives I had - but back to topic: only my blood should boil - not the Z06
Just for the case you have not been in Germany yet and espacially not in the Southern area - the "green hell" is here everywhere and around each corner (including the Autobahn) .
So it is pretty easy to force a car to its limit, especially in the South where it is hilly everywhere.
Some of the most amazing and twisty roads I've ever been on in my life there!
No, I think you are reading the numbers correctly. Yes, the FGT could be pushed on the track to overheating but it seems not nearly as easily as the current design Z06. I think GM cut the margins more than a bit too close.
In this day and age, designing any car to only perform its intended purpose up to an ambient 86degF is pretty far from the mark when a large portion of the car's customer base lives in climates WELL above that temp.
And by any means I don't think GM even hit the mark of 86*. I overheated the car in 15 minutes in 85*. I'm not a pro, and was far from running out of fuel.
Originally Posted by axr6
That is a very significant difference; At 110F, 245 coolant and 300 oil are very reasonable expectations. 110F is a full 24F higher than GM's spec of 86F. If we try to extrapolate the expected running temps for the Ford GT at 86F, it would be close to a reasonable 221F coolant and 276 oil.
Tough to run against a FGT, let alone a stock one, to see what temps it is actually running. Mostly employed as garage dwellers, or straight line cars.
And by any means I don't think GM even hit the mark of 86*. I overheated the car in 15 minutes in 85*. I'm not a pro, and was far from running out of fuel.
Tough to run against a FGT, let alone a stock one, to see what temps it is actually running. Mostly employed as garage dwellers, or straight line cars.
interesting, I went to Spring mountain in August for 2 days in the corvette driving school. Stage 3 A8 car temps were in the low to mid 90's never even got close to over heating for 2 days, longest session was about 30 min. AC blasting the whole time.
interesting, I went to Spring mountain in August for 2 days in the corvette driving school. Stage 3 A8 car temps were in the low to mid 90's never even got close to over heating for 2 days, longest session was about 30 min. AC blasting the whole time.
They what I do. Replace coolant and heat exchanger fluid (I'm doing heat excharger next year) with 80% or more water with water wetter
I've run AC on. Vented seats on. Temps stay cooler now.. 240..
They what I do. Replace coolant and heat exchanger fluid (I'm doing heat excharger next year) with 80% or more water with water wetter
I've run AC on. Vented seats on. Temps stay cooler now.. 240..
I'm with ya on this one change the heat exchanger to water \ wetter mix along with the rad.. Could this be the Z06 overheat gremlin? Oddly some cars have issues and some don't. Some cars over heat with simply spirited street use and some don't, M7-A8's. We can debate forever on whether he or she is a hard driver street or track, pushing the tach. on and on with having accomplished little.
Could it be as simple as an oversized air pocket getting up to the heat exchanger SC area and causing limp mode and overheating? Let the car cool and the air pocket moves. Simply because our massed produced cars were not pressure filled properly. While other cars (ours) seem to have little or no problems. This was brought up before and a few were getting the system refilled to have less air in the reservoir but little feed back on the success or failure. Greg I'm glad you brought this topic up again.
I'm with ya on this one change the heat exchanger to water \ wetter mix along with the rad.. Could this be the Z06 overheat gremlin? Oddly some cars have issues and some don't. Some cars over heat with simply spirited street use and some don't, M7-A8's. We can debate forever on whether he or she is a hard driver street or track, pushing the tach. on and on with having accomplished little.
Could it be as simple as an oversized air pocket getting up to the heat exchanger SC area and causing limp mode and overheating? Let the car cool and the air pocket moves. Simply because our massed produced cars were not pressure filled properly. While other cars (ours) seem to have little or no problems. This was brought up before and a few were getting the system refilled to have less air in the reservoir but little feed back on the success or failure. Greg I'm glad you brought this topic up again.
Has everyone checked their air pockets today?
It would be great is it was this simple but I don't think its the main issue as IF it was simply the IATs getting too hot the car would go into limp mode sure, but you wouldn't see oil temps of close to 300dF and water temps as high as >250dF. This is purely the result of inadequate cooling due to IMHO the pathetic excuse of an oil cooler.
Granted there have been cars that have gone into limp mode due to improperly filled S/C intercooler filling, but this is not what is causing the vast majority of issues on a road course.
It would be great is it was this simple but I don't think its the main issue as IF it was simply the IATs getting too hot the car would go into limp mode sure, but you wouldn't see oil temps of close to 300dF and water temps as high as >250dF. This is purely the result of inadequate cooling due to IMHO the pathetic excuse of an oil cooler.
Granted there have been cars that have gone into limp mode due to improperly filled S/C intercooler filling, but this is not what is causing the vast majority of issues on a road course.
Bish
Agree with you 100% on that Bish. Air pocket in the intercooler circuit being the cause for overheating on track is a total red herring. There is no possible way that would cause coolant temps over 256 and oil temps over 300. Tadge just put that out once again in their failure to deliver response for the Motor Trend Best Driver's Car to cover GM's behind I have to assume. They just need to come out and admit coolant and oil cooling is inadequate on the Z06/Z51 and in addition for the Z51, the manual transmission cooler is inadequate, as it is for the A6 automatic transmission at least. And if they can't admit it, then they need to offer a fix. Tadge admitted one could fit the cooling parts from one model to another to improve automatic transmission cooling, so that is a start. But it's not like they are coming out with anything quickly.
interesting, I went to Spring mountain in August for 2 days in the corvette driving school. Stage 3 A8 car temps were in the low to mid 90's never even got close to over heating for 2 days, longest session was about 30 min. AC blasting the whole time.
Some guys are faster than others. In 90* ambients and AC on I can guarantee to tap out the Z in less than 10 minutes. Mind you I'm not even that fast. Just posting average advanced level lap times.
GM finds it conevenient to blame fluids for all the car's drawbacks. After all GM doesn't make those fluids, and fillup consistency is just a maintanence issue. While I do think you should flush oil and differential fluid ASAP upon driving it a few hundered miles, I don't think any fluid change over will transform the car.
Last edited by SBC_and_a_stick; 10-28-2015 at 02:36 PM.
I suggest to have a new locked sticky about the overheating issue for casual/new members so that they can efficiently obtain the info without having to go through layers of pages. If they are further interest, they can read those pages. Otherwise, it is helpful just to have the summay:
1) is there a real significant overheating issue or it is just blown out of proportion
2) if there is a significant problem, is it track only or include spirited and/or casual driving
3) if there is a significant problem, any specific conditions exaggerating the problems: heat, humidity, etc.
J
4) if there is a significant problem, does it affect all Z06 models or only specific ones (automatic/manual, coupe/convertible)
Just a suggestion. If you dislike or think the idea is inappropriate, please feel free to ignore or delete it. Thanks in advance.
I suggest to have a new locked sticky about the overheating issue for casual/new members so that they can efficiently obtain the info without having to go through layers of pages. If they are further interest, they can read those pages. Otherwise, it is helpful just to have the summay:
1) is there a real significant overheating issue or it is just blown out of proportion
2) if there is a significant problem, is it track only or include spirited and/or casual driving
3) if there is a significant problem, any specific conditions exaggerating the problems: heat, humidity, etc.
J
4) if there is a significant problem, does it affect all Z06 models or only specific ones (automatic/manual, coupe/convertible)
Just a suggestion. If you dislike or think the idea is inappropriate, please feel free to ignore or delete it. Thanks in advance.
I tried to do that a couple of months ago. You can judge for yourself how that turned out.
I think you summarized them very well. Just need to sticky that as a stand alone and lock the thread.
If you ask me as a potential buyer (a C5Z & C6Z owner) on what I conclude? Get a M7 as a great street car, but not as a track car. Many if not most of the problems seem to be track related. GM raised people's expectation for C7Z as the greatest track car Corvette ever and failed to deliver it.At least, it SEEMS to be a great street car (7/10 canyon roads driving, etc.).
The nice people at the Palm Beach Driving Club let me do a few laps at Palm Beach International Raceway. After only about 5 or 6 laps I noticed the tranny temp getting really close to the edge of the dial. I decided to call it quits in case something was wrong. I have a M7, Z51. I was driving in track mode but without the PTM (or whatever the traction management is called). I've seen lots of posts about A8's overheating but nothing about the M7. Is this different? Is it okay for the temp to get that high? I think I'm going to bring it to the dealer to check it out.
I take it that you can do decent lap times. Yep, fast guys did overheat the M7. One of the members here did overheat his M7 every time he went out on the track. Its a shame since it shouldn't be too complex to design proper cooling for a manual transmission. Its much more complex with automatic.
The nice people at the Palm Beach Driving Club let me do a few laps at Palm Beach International Raceway. After only about 5 or 6 laps I noticed the tranny temp getting really close to the edge of the dial. I decided to call it quits in case something was wrong. I have a M7, Z51. I was driving in track mode but without the PTM (or whatever the traction management is called). I've seen lots of posts about A8's overheating but nothing about the M7. Is this different? Is it okay for the temp to get that high? I think I'm going to bring it to the dealer to check it out.
This what keeps me on the edge of getting or wait.
Btw, Redline oil has a very good resistant to high temperature. A lot of people running forced induction, including myself, like it for that reason.
The nice people at the Palm Beach Driving Club let me do a few laps at Palm Beach International Raceway. After only about 5 or 6 laps I noticed the tranny temp getting really close to the edge of the dial. I decided to call it quits in case something was wrong. I have a M7, Z51. I was driving in track mode but without the PTM (or whatever the traction management is called). I've seen lots of posts about A8's overheating but nothing about the M7. Is this different? Is it okay for the temp to get that high? I think I'm going to bring it to the dealer to check it out.
Our new Gen2 prototypes are finished and this unit will be even better than our standard unit. The new design uses a lower serpentine fin, which allows us to pack (7) seven more rows of tubes in the same size core. The tubes have dimples stamped into them to create turbulance, which increases heat rejection. 1149114M2 $945
In a couple weeks we will also release the oil cooler package for Z06. This kit will include an adapter, hoses, and an air type heat exchanger.
Removing the oil heat load from the cooling system will not only help with the cooling demand, it will eliminate oil temperature faults.
Last edited by Tom@Dewitt; 11-04-2015 at 06:39 PM.
Our new Gen2 prototypes are finished and this unit will be even better than our standard unit. The new design uses a lower serpentine fin, which allows us to pack (7) seven more rows of tubes in the same size core. The tubes have dimples stamped into them to create turbulance, which increases heat rejection. 1149114M2 $945
In a couple weeks we will also release the oil cooler package for Z06. This kit will include an adapter, hoses, and an air type heat exchanger.
Removing the oil heat load from the cooling system will not only help with the cooling demand, it will eliminate oil temperature faults.
Sounds like the best solution. The secondary radiator announced by GM sounds Ok too but, it is claimed to reduce oil temps by 15F only, which is still not ideal. If you now run temps over 300F, it still means running around 285-290, while the claimed coolant temp reduction of 25F could still result in 225-230 water temps. I would expect the DeWitt combo of the improved radiator and oil cooler to bring both temps down quite a bit more.
Our new Gen2 prototypes are finished and this unit will be even better than our standard unit. The new design uses a lower serpentine fin, which allows us to pack (7) seven more rows of tubes in the same size core. The tubes have dimples stamped into them to create turbulance, which increases heat rejection. 1149114M2 $945
In a couple weeks we will also release the oil cooler package for Z06. This kit will include an adapter, hoses, and an air type heat exchanger.
Removing the oil heat load from the cooling system will not only help with the cooling demand, it will eliminate oil temperature faults.
I'll take one...oh, and send the bill to GM for me.
Our new Gen2 prototypes are finished and this unit will be even better than our standard unit. The new design uses a lower serpentine fin, which allows us to pack (7) seven more rows of tubes in the same size core. The tubes have dimples stamped into them to create turbulance, which increases heat rejection. 1149114M2 $945
In a couple weeks we will also release the oil cooler package for Z06. This kit will include an adapter, hoses, and an air type heat exchanger.
Removing the oil heat load from the cooling system will not only help with the cooling demand, it will eliminate oil temperature faults.
Tom thanks so much for your work on this. Really looking forward to see the oil cooling package also.
10-26-2015, 01:58 PM
