GM, I may have a beef with you regarding the Z06 & Camaro
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
GM, I may have a beef with you regarding the Z06 & Camaro
I just happened to read a link explaining the wonders of the 2016 Camaro. As you read through the "11 things to know about the new Camaro", #10 states ,,,,, The SS model is "track capable" In anticipation of expected hard driving, the Camaro SS is rated as track capable. That means that it can run for an entire tank of fuel at maximum speed around GM's Milford Road Course without cooking its engine, transmission, differential, or brakes. That's why it has so many radiators (3).
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...maro/?slide=10
Here is my beef; why engineer the SS model to run an entire tank of gas without limitations to performance (or does running a full tank without cooking the engine mean it is in limp mode) and at the same time, have the Z06 go into various limp modes while being the Corvette historically design with track performance? Am I missing anything here?
PS: Although I do not own a new Z06, it is the car I am most fond of and at the same time disappointed in regarding the issues above. Most of the time I don't log in the forum but tend to read the forum 4-5 days a week, 90% regarding the Z06. I am retired, sold my C6 to live overseas, will never give up my joyful life surfing in Bali to own a new Z06 but sure love the car. So please do not waste your time thinking my goal is to insult owners or try to slam the car. Like many of you, I just hope GM can figure out how to get this heating issue in check for those that bought a Z06 for optimal track performance.
http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars...maro/?slide=10
Here is my beef; why engineer the SS model to run an entire tank of gas without limitations to performance (or does running a full tank without cooking the engine mean it is in limp mode) and at the same time, have the Z06 go into various limp modes while being the Corvette historically design with track performance? Am I missing anything here?
PS: Although I do not own a new Z06, it is the car I am most fond of and at the same time disappointed in regarding the issues above. Most of the time I don't log in the forum but tend to read the forum 4-5 days a week, 90% regarding the Z06. I am retired, sold my C6 to live overseas, will never give up my joyful life surfing in Bali to own a new Z06 but sure love the car. So please do not waste your time thinking my goal is to insult owners or try to slam the car. Like many of you, I just hope GM can figure out how to get this heating issue in check for those that bought a Z06 for optimal track performance.
#3
Drifting
I wouldn't be so quick to assume the Camaro will perform that much better.
This is what Tadge said about the Z06, which sounds pretty similar:
Note that the Camaro info doesn't give a max temp rating, leaving it free to be the same 86F target.
It appears the Z06 went through the same "full tank of fuel" and 24 hr validation tests. Ideally the feedback from the C7 & Z06 launch, and the likelihood that the Camaro has more room for coolers (it has 3 radiators) than the C7 will mean it has better heat management, but it may not. The former Z/28 did pretty well though, so I guess we'll see.
This is what Tadge said about the Z06, which sounds pretty similar:
Originally Posted by Tadge
The Z06 Manual is designed to keep engine oil, coolant, transmission and differential fluids below the hot warning targets when driven by a professional on a 30C day (86F) on a "typical" racetrack for an indefinite period of time (effectively the time to burn through a full tank of fuel). Our team validates the durability of the Z06 cooling systems with a 24hr accumulated track test to simulate the most aggressive track-day usage by our customers.
We designate our track: the Milford Road Course, as the "typical" standard, but recognize that there are tracks around the world which are easier on a cooling system and some which are harder on a cooling system. Generally speaking, tighter tracks with lower average speed and higher sustained RPM, will drive higher fluid system temperatures.
We designate our track: the Milford Road Course, as the "typical" standard, but recognize that there are tracks around the world which are easier on a cooling system and some which are harder on a cooling system. Generally speaking, tighter tracks with lower average speed and higher sustained RPM, will drive higher fluid system temperatures.
It appears the Z06 went through the same "full tank of fuel" and 24 hr validation tests. Ideally the feedback from the C7 & Z06 launch, and the likelihood that the Camaro has more room for coolers (it has 3 radiators) than the C7 will mean it has better heat management, but it may not. The former Z/28 did pretty well though, so I guess we'll see.
#4
Alcoholics Unanimous
Member Since: Aug 2014
Location: 29464
Posts: 1,963
Likes: 0
Received 1,642 Likes
on
413 Posts
St. Jude Donor '15-'16
Less HP, naturally aspirated, a lot more room in engine bay.
But yes it makes little sense to have a Camaro SS hold up on track better than a Z06. That said we've fallen for the 'track capable' schtick before ... so let's see a few people run them.
But yes it makes little sense to have a Camaro SS hold up on track better than a Z06. That said we've fallen for the 'track capable' schtick before ... so let's see a few people run them.
#5
Boosted or NA, it's the HP that creates heat and heat is heat. Less HP in the Camaro will produce less heat and therefore less heat management issues. But let's not forget that the NA C6Z06 also ran hot in stock form when driven aggressively on track by experienced drivers . Most owners seriously into tracking upgraded the stock cooling systems to race ones. It was, and is, the no. 1 recommended mod by the major race prep shops such as Phoenix Performance.
#6
Safety Car
I wouldn't be so quick to assume the Camaro will perform that much better.
This is what Tadge said about the Z06, which sounds pretty similar:
Note that the Camaro info doesn't give a max temp rating, leaving it free to be the same 86F target.
It appears the Z06 went through the same "full tank of fuel" and 24 hr validation tests. Ideally the feedback from the C7 & Z06 launch, and the likelihood that the Camaro has more room for coolers (it has 3 radiators) than the C7 will mean it has better heat management, but it may not. The former Z/28 did pretty well though, so I guess we'll see.
This is what Tadge said about the Z06, which sounds pretty similar:
Note that the Camaro info doesn't give a max temp rating, leaving it free to be the same 86F target.
It appears the Z06 went through the same "full tank of fuel" and 24 hr validation tests. Ideally the feedback from the C7 & Z06 launch, and the likelihood that the Camaro has more room for coolers (it has 3 radiators) than the C7 will mean it has better heat management, but it may not. The former Z/28 did pretty well though, so I guess we'll see.
The standard transmission cooler on the new Camaro is proof that GM can no longer ignore cooling needs. First two years of auto Stingray buyers got screwed, period.
Auxiliary radiators are what the competition uses, GM is barely catching up. We're likely to see these in a future Corvette. I'm not holding my breath for backwards compatibility. Looks like some of us first buyers will need to trade in soon.
I find this new GM attention to cooling a welcomed change. It's going to be painful getting passed by Camaros while short shifting to stay cool but at least there is hope in the future.
#7
Burning Brakes
GM just loves to play the game with the typical emotional male buyer! If you do not know that after the team in GM legal gets finished with the release that is going out under Tadge or whoever else it has been made "suit proof"!!
Hey don't be mad at me for just pointing out what is going on.. BTW love my Z06 now that the oil in the SC is fixed.
Hey don't be mad at me for just pointing out what is going on.. BTW love my Z06 now that the oil in the SC is fixed.
#8
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,252
Received 5,447 Likes
on
2,272 Posts
I also saw they are planning to put the LS7 in the Z28 model forthcoming on the new platform.
Wish they'd put that mill into the C7.
Wish they'd put that mill into the C7.
#9
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Mar 1999
Location: Northern VA
Posts: 10,067
Received 3,809 Likes
on
1,146 Posts
"Ask Tadge" Producer
Further, take a close look at the wall that is the front end of the Camaro vs that of the Corvette. The Camaro's radiator basically sits completely upright, like a pickup truck's does. Unless folks want the nose of the Corvette to be as tall as the Camaro's, getting that kind of surface area just isn't going to happen.
#10
Safety Car
Note the side grilles flanking the main radiator opening for the V8 model. This is what we need for the 'Vette. The Camaro likely cools better than the C7 Vette even with a single radiator true, due to a larger radiator and more airflow. Which makes the 2016's cooling upgrade that much more purposeful. This is clear intent on the part of GM to set new standards for cooling.
#11
Le Mans Master
#12
Melting Slicks
I don't think they are. I believe GM actually changed the heads on the Z28 LS7's, which is probably why they make a tad bit more torque. The only Z28 with a blown up motor that I know of is a friend of mine's buddy who had a Whipple blower on it and drove it pretty hard w/o breaking it in properly.
#13
Drifting
I've learned that you can't rely on GM's marketing for information purposes. It's just something that owners can regurgitate to friends...
The standard transmission cooler on the new Camaro is proof that GM can no longer ignore cooling needs. First two years of auto Stingray buyers got screwed, period.
Auxiliary radiators are what the competition uses, GM is barely catching up. We're likely to see these in a future Corvette. I'm not holding my breath for backwards compatibility. Looks like some of us first buyers will need to trade in soon.
I find this new GM attention to cooling a welcomed change. It's going to be painful getting passed by Camaros while short shifting to stay cool but at least there is hope in the future.
The standard transmission cooler on the new Camaro is proof that GM can no longer ignore cooling needs. First two years of auto Stingray buyers got screwed, period.
Auxiliary radiators are what the competition uses, GM is barely catching up. We're likely to see these in a future Corvette. I'm not holding my breath for backwards compatibility. Looks like some of us first buyers will need to trade in soon.
I find this new GM attention to cooling a welcomed change. It's going to be painful getting passed by Camaros while short shifting to stay cool but at least there is hope in the future.
I don't think they are. I believe GM actually changed the heads on the Z28 LS7's, which is probably why they make a tad bit more torque. The only Z28 with a blown up motor that I know of is a friend of mine's buddy who had a Whipple blower on it and drove it pretty hard w/o breaking it in properly.
The Z/28's port-injected LS7 V-8 is fortified with new pistons and titanium connecting rods whose bearing inserts are now spray-coated for improved durability. There are also a cold-air intake, revised exhaust headers, and a repackaged dry-sump oiling system
Last edited by CPhelps; 07-27-2015 at 03:52 PM.
#14
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,252
Received 5,447 Likes
on
2,272 Posts
#15
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
Posts: 22,252
Received 5,447 Likes
on
2,272 Posts
:
The LS7 is being used in the current Z/28. Nothing about a Z/28 on the 6th gen platform is known, but I wouldn't hold my breath for a Gen IV engine...There was a rumor that an ATS-V+ would get an LS7, but GM denied it and I'm not holding my breath for that one either...
The LS7 is being used in the current Z/28. Nothing about a Z/28 on the 6th gen platform is known, but I wouldn't hold my breath for a Gen IV engine...There was a rumor that an ATS-V+ would get an LS7, but GM denied it and I'm not holding my breath for that one either...
I know it's in the current/outgoing model. In one of my recently received car rags they talked about the rumor of the LS7 landing in the ATS-V and reported GM kyboshed that but indicated it may land in the all-new Z-28 on the new platform.
Since I read it in a car rag, I'll take it with the appropriate grain of salt.
If they do drop it in a new Z-28, tho, it would beg the question of why not in the C7.
#16
I know it's in the current/outgoing model. In one of my recently received car rags they talked about the rumor of the LS7 landing in the ATS-V and reported GM kyboshed that but indicated it may land in the all-new Z-28 on the new platform.
Since I read it in a car rag, I'll take it with the appropriate grain of salt.
If they do drop it in a new Z-28, tho, it would beg the question of why not in the C7.
Since I read it in a car rag, I'll take it with the appropriate grain of salt.
If they do drop it in a new Z-28, tho, it would beg the question of why not in the C7.
#17
According to a press release the new Camaro was tested on 8 different tracks around the world including the Autobahn. It will also have a catch can from the factory. So there is some different re-engineering going on the Camaro. The latest rumor is the LS7 will survive in the new Camaro, but I would be surprised (but happy) if that were true.
#18
Race Director
Member Since: Jul 2007
Location: Texas Hill Country
Posts: 10,763
Received 2,379 Likes
on
1,238 Posts
newer cars are better than older cars.
C7Z is old news already.
All hail teh 2016 camaro!
C7Z is old news already.
All hail teh 2016 camaro!
#19
Drifting
I know it's in the current/outgoing model. In one of my recently received car rags they talked about the rumor of the LS7 landing in the ATS-V and reported GM kyboshed that but indicated it may land in the all-new Z-28 on the new platform.
Since I read it in a car rag, I'll take it with the appropriate grain of salt.
If they do drop it in a new Z-28, tho, it would beg the question of why not in the C7.
Since I read it in a car rag, I'll take it with the appropriate grain of salt.
If they do drop it in a new Z-28, tho, it would beg the question of why not in the C7.