Oil Temp While Tracking
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,074
Likes: 309
Oil Temp While Tracking
I think I happened to stumble onto some information that pertains to this subject. I was reading my latest issue of Grassroots Motorsports. They are doing a Camaro road course car build and are experiencing 300 degree oil temperatures with their LS3.
They called somebody at powertrain engineering about this and he gave them an interesting response: engine oil temperatures are not measured, they are calculated based on a complicated algorithm with many variables.
I am thinking that if the LS3 is designed this way, then almost certainly the LT1 and the Z06 engine use similar technology. Has anybody else heard this?
I was a little blown away by this information. If you had something wrong with the engine, would this mean that a real high oil temperature might not show up because the ECU expects everything to be working normally? And what if the calculations are not entirely accurate? Maybe your oil is not really hitting 300. Maybe they put in a fudge-factor to encourage you to back off for longevity's sake.
Has somebody installed a direct reading temperature gage to verify the factory supplied information?
They called somebody at powertrain engineering about this and he gave them an interesting response: engine oil temperatures are not measured, they are calculated based on a complicated algorithm with many variables.
I am thinking that if the LS3 is designed this way, then almost certainly the LT1 and the Z06 engine use similar technology. Has anybody else heard this?
I was a little blown away by this information. If you had something wrong with the engine, would this mean that a real high oil temperature might not show up because the ECU expects everything to be working normally? And what if the calculations are not entirely accurate? Maybe your oil is not really hitting 300. Maybe they put in a fudge-factor to encourage you to back off for longevity's sake.
Has somebody installed a direct reading temperature gage to verify the factory supplied information?
Burning Brakes
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 302
That seems very surprising, as measuring temperature is one of the easiest things to do, just put in a temperature sensor and connect it to the ECU, and measure temperature directly. Can't imagine why they would not simply use a temperature sensor. They don't measure tire temperature directly since the TPMS sensors don't give air temperature readings, and they use an algorithm to get tire temperature from other data, but oil and coolant temperature are surely measured directly.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,074
Likes: 309
That seems very surprising, as measuring temperature is one of the easiest things to do, just put in a temperature sensor and connect it to the ECU, and measure temperature directly. Can't imagine why they would not simply use a temperature sensor. They don't measure tire temperature directly since the TPMS sensors don't give air temperature readings, and they use an algorithm to get tire temperature from other data, but oil and coolant temperature are surely measured directly.
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,308
Likes: 123
From: Raleigh North Carolina
I think I happened to stumble onto some information that pertains to this subject. I was reading my latest issue of Grassroots Motorsports. They are doing a Camaro road course car build and are experiencing 300 degree oil temperatures with their LS3.
They called somebody at powertrain engineering about this and he gave them an interesting response: engine oil temperatures are not measured, they are calculated based on a complicated algorithm with many variables.
I am thinking that if the LS3 is designed this way, then almost certainly the LT1 and the Z06 engine use similar technology. Has anybody else heard this?
I was a little blown away by this information. If you had something wrong with the engine, would this mean that a real high oil temperature might not show up because the ECU expects everything to be working normally? And what if the calculations are not entirely accurate? Maybe your oil is not really hitting 300. Maybe they put in a fudge-factor to encourage you to back off for longevity's sake.
Has somebody installed a direct reading temperature gage to verify the factory supplied information?
They called somebody at powertrain engineering about this and he gave them an interesting response: engine oil temperatures are not measured, they are calculated based on a complicated algorithm with many variables.
I am thinking that if the LS3 is designed this way, then almost certainly the LT1 and the Z06 engine use similar technology. Has anybody else heard this?
I was a little blown away by this information. If you had something wrong with the engine, would this mean that a real high oil temperature might not show up because the ECU expects everything to be working normally? And what if the calculations are not entirely accurate? Maybe your oil is not really hitting 300. Maybe they put in a fudge-factor to encourage you to back off for longevity's sake.
Has somebody installed a direct reading temperature gage to verify the factory supplied information?
IMO, I could be wrong but I don't think either of those temperatures are based on computer modeling.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,074
Likes: 309
[QUOTE=truth.b;1590291157]OP, can you post a link to the tech article. I've been unable to find it using Google. I would like to read the article myself so that I see the comments in context.[/QUOTE
GrassRootsMotorsports.com is the best I can give you. I find it to be a good source of information, especially if you are looking for a performance tire; they do frequent comparison tests with timed lapping which I don't often see elsewhere. October 2015 issue, page 122.
GrassRootsMotorsports.com is the best I can give you. I find it to be a good source of information, especially if you are looking for a performance tire; they do frequent comparison tests with timed lapping which I don't often see elsewhere. October 2015 issue, page 122.
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2005
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Advanced
Joined: Jan 2014
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if they use a thermocouple sensor, they will use an algorithm to calculate the temp. because they don't have a linear response. every degree change does not mean the same voltage change. Maybe this is what they meant.
Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2005
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I will quote the article:
"We had a chat and exchanged some emails with one of their powertrain engineers and learned some interesting stuff. First, the oil temp gauge in the center cluster isn't actually measuring oil temp per se. The gauge actually reflects what a computer model simulation estimates the oil temperature should be based on current information. It takes data parameters like ambient temp, rpm, engine load, vehicle speed, gear, throttle position and dozens of other data points to build a very accurate simulation."
"We had a chat and exchanged some emails with one of their powertrain engineers and learned some interesting stuff. First, the oil temp gauge in the center cluster isn't actually measuring oil temp per se. The gauge actually reflects what a computer model simulation estimates the oil temperature should be based on current information. It takes data parameters like ambient temp, rpm, engine load, vehicle speed, gear, throttle position and dozens of other data points to build a very accurate simulation."
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,308
Likes: 123
From: Raleigh North Carolina
I will quote the article:
"We had a chat and exchanged some emails with one of their powertrain engineers and learned some interesting stuff. First, the oil temp gauge in the center cluster isn't actually measuring oil temp per se. The gauge actually reflects what a computer model simulation estimates the oil temperature should be based on current information. It takes data parameters like ambient temp, rpm, engine load, vehicle speed, gear, throttle position and dozens of other data points to build a very accurate simulation."
"We had a chat and exchanged some emails with one of their powertrain engineers and learned some interesting stuff. First, the oil temp gauge in the center cluster isn't actually measuring oil temp per se. The gauge actually reflects what a computer model simulation estimates the oil temperature should be based on current information. It takes data parameters like ambient temp, rpm, engine load, vehicle speed, gear, throttle position and dozens of other data points to build a very accurate simulation."
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2004
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St. Jude Donor 05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
Not complicated at all.
Racer
Joined: Sep 2014
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Thread Starter
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,074
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is hardly a light-weight. You think maybe having room for four people might account for some of that? But what does that have to do with measuring/ and or calculating oil temperature?
I was trying to rationalize why they would use such a complicated method for something that probably most cars don't even provide to the driver (oil temp), and the only thing I can think of is that it is useful information for extended warrantees and the oil life monitoring system.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 887
Likes: 10
From: Ontario New York
I think I happened to stumble onto some information that pertains to this subject. I was reading my latest issue of Grassroots Motorsports. They are doing a Camaro road course car build and are experiencing 300 degree oil temperatures with their LS3.
They called somebody at powertrain engineering about this and he gave them an interesting response: engine oil temperatures are not measured, they are calculated based on a complicated algorithm with many variables.
I am thinking that if the LS3 is designed this way, then almost certainly the LT1 and the Z06 engine use similar technology. Has anybody else heard this?
I was a little blown away by this information. If you had something wrong with the engine, would this mean that a real high oil temperature might not show up because the ECU expects everything to be working normally? And what if the calculations are not entirely accurate? Maybe your oil is not really hitting 300. Maybe they put in a fudge-factor to encourage you to back off for longevity's sake.
Has somebody installed a direct reading temperature gage to verify the factory supplied information?
They called somebody at powertrain engineering about this and he gave them an interesting response: engine oil temperatures are not measured, they are calculated based on a complicated algorithm with many variables.
I am thinking that if the LS3 is designed this way, then almost certainly the LT1 and the Z06 engine use similar technology. Has anybody else heard this?
I was a little blown away by this information. If you had something wrong with the engine, would this mean that a real high oil temperature might not show up because the ECU expects everything to be working normally? And what if the calculations are not entirely accurate? Maybe your oil is not really hitting 300. Maybe they put in a fudge-factor to encourage you to back off for longevity's sake.
Has somebody installed a direct reading temperature gage to verify the factory supplied information?
My problem is that the MXL2 display is reading 30 Deg F higher than the OEM DIC display. AiM seems to think the problem is in as you described:"engine oil temperatures are not measured, they are calculated based on a complicated algorithm with many variables."
We are still looking into this as being the cause.
I am somewhat confused as to why this is done and also why the Channel 18 data collected by the MXL2 is not the same as displayed on the OEM DIC display. I am going to do more testing with AiM to come up with a solution to the problem.
Last edited by C6RAPTOR; Jan 9, 2016 at 11:43 PM.
Burning Brakes
Joined: Aug 2000
Posts: 887
Likes: 10
From: Ontario New York
I just Asked Tadge for an explanation .
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 1,308
Likes: 123
From: Raleigh North Carolina
This is all very interesting because I am at this time dealing with an oil temperature display error between my OEM DIC digital display and my AiM MXL2 Dash Logger. The AiM hardware is installed in my 05 Corvette track car.The AiM MXL2 communicates with the ECU OBDII connection to display, alarm and log the 22 Channels of the ECU data stream. ECU_18 is the channel for Engine oil temperature.
My problem is that the MXL2 display is reading 30 Deg F higher than the OEM DIC display. AiM seems to think the problem is in as you described:"engine oil temperatures are not measured, they are calculated based on a complicated algorithm with many variables."
We are still looking into this as being the cause.
I am somewhat confused as to why this is done and also why the Channel 18 data collected by the MXL2 is not the same as displayed on the OEM DIC display. I am going to do more testing with AiM to come up with a solution to the problem.
My problem is that the MXL2 display is reading 30 Deg F higher than the OEM DIC display. AiM seems to think the problem is in as you described:"engine oil temperatures are not measured, they are calculated based on a complicated algorithm with many variables."
We are still looking into this as being the cause.
I am somewhat confused as to why this is done and also why the Channel 18 data collected by the MXL2 is not the same as displayed on the OEM DIC display. I am going to do more testing with AiM to come up with a solution to the problem.
I'm not sure if your track car is a base or a Z06, but if it is a using the factory dry-sump provided in the (GS, Z06, ZR1) there are 2 temperature sensors. The oil temp displayed in the DIC corresponds to the oil in dry sump reservoir, but the my ODBii reader uses PID 221154 (Hex Vale: 35FE2) which shows oil temp at/in the engine which is usually a few degrees different. In my experiments I have found that the delta between the two sensors is dependent on the type of driving.
Last edited by truth.b; Dec 11, 2015 at 12:33 PM.