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Old 12-17-2015, 09:59 AM
  #41  
Toilets
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Is there any performance advantage compared to the Z07?

Also, this kit is marketed as an endurance kit it seems like. Would you still recommend this for sprint racing or do you recommend another product?
I TT race so I run 1 warm up lap and 3 flyers and 1 cool down multiple times a day. I would essentially need the brakes and pads up to temp by lap 1. I'm in the mist of needing to replace my front rotors and for the cost of just the rotors, it looks as if I can get a whole kit.

Also, any issues you think with bias or anything else running this kit up front and CCM out back?
Old 12-17-2015, 10:01 AM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Poor-sha
Hi Jeff. Any updates on a rear caliper option for those of us that are fashion conscious and want to make sure the fronts and rears match?
Sorry...you fashionistas will have to wait! Realistically, I don't expect to see anything until this coming summer. The caliper design process can be excruciatingly slow. There are a ton of considerations that must be taken into account. Tooling for complex calipers such as these is extremely expensive, and we want to make sure it's a sound design that will have a long service life on the range of applications for which we intend to use it. Just as with these killer front Pro5000R calipers, it will be worth the wait. What we come up with will be stiffer, lighter, and better than anything else available. We're also looking to keep the parking brake functionality intact.
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Old 12-17-2015, 11:19 AM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Toilets
Is there any performance advantage compared to the Z07?
Here's the short answer...

Calipers
The Pro5000R calipers are light-years beyond the design of the OEM calipers, and have an extensive array of benefits. They're far stiffer, considerably lighter (about 3-4 lbs. each), have more advanced materials (vented, domed-back, stainless steel pistons), anti-knockback springs, no dust boots to burn up, more pad choices, easier pad changes, thicker pads, more durable anodized finish...the list goes on and on. I'll do a separate post with more precise caliper comparisons.

Discs

On the disc side, the only benefit of the CCM's for track use is weight. Our kits weigh about 3 lbs. more per corner than the OEM Z07 brakes. Our kits also weigh about 6 lbs. less per front corner than the OEM front iron brakes. So in terms of weight, our kit is closer in weight to the OEM CCM system than it is the OEM iron system. Given the many advantages of our kit, we believe that is a very reasonable weight penalty to pay.

Other than the slight weight difference, all of the pluses are checked in our column in terms of using our iron discs on the track vs. the CCM's. Here are some problems with CCM's:

Low airflow and heat evacuation- If you look at a specific car model that offers both iron and carbon ceramic discs as an option (including the Z06), the carbon ceramic discs will almost always be considerably larger in overall dimension, with a specific emphasis on a tall radial depth (distance from outer disc edge to inner disc edge). Whereas an iron disc uses a web of directional internal vanes to speed airflow through the disc, most carbon ceramic discs rely on their large surface area to radiate heat into the air surrounding the disc. Hence, the tall radial depth.

Our AP Racing discs have 84 curved, directional vanes, which flow more air than anything else available. Whe you add brake ducts, that benefit is compounded. The vane design of the CCM's can't utilize incoming cooling air as well as the ones in our iron disc, and they rely instead on their large disc face surface area to try and dissipate heat (which isn't as effective when stuffing cooling air into them). You can think of it as more cooling from the inside out with iron discs vs. more cooling from the outside out with a CCM disc.

Expensive and limited range of compatible brake pads- There aren't many brake pad options with carbon ceramic discs. The pads must be compatible with the specific disc material being used, and if they aren't, they can destroy the discs in a hurry. Since brake pads are a very personal choice to most track junkies, carbon ceramic discs don't provide many options for the driver to chase a desired feel. Also as noted above, carbon ceramic discs tend to be very tall radially, which means very large brake pads are required. In the world of brake pads, price is usually directly proportional to size: Bigger = more expensive.

With our iron system, you can use any flavor of brake pad under the sun. They're all compatible with our iron discs. That means you'll never be left in a pinch with pads.

Poor feel- Experienced drivers will tell you that cast iron discs provide superior pedal feel due to less compress-ability. Some drivers find that carbon ceramic discs feel soft or abrasive at lower temperatures, but feel like stone with little modulation once they heat up. Feel and the resulting confidence is rather important when hurtling towards a guardrail at 150mph!

High replacement disc cost- Carbon ceramic replacement discs can be hideously expensive. If you do wear out or damage a disc, it can cost thousands of dollars to replace each one. When running carbon ceramic discs hard on a racetrack, the odds of having to replace one or more of them increases exponentially vs. if you only drive your car on the street.
I believe the cheapest going rate for an OEM CCM disc is about $1200. Our iron replacement rings are $399, and will last far longer under heavy track use before they need to be swapped out.

Damage-prone- Many manufactures suggest covering their carbon ceramic discs when handling them, so they are not chipped or fractured. One knock when changing a wheel can destroy a disc. Additionally, some chemical wheel cleaners or abrasives used in car detailing can damage carbon ceramic discs.

I've seen guys with stacks of our iron discs in the their race trailer, some of which aren't even in boxes. Heck, I've seen guys use them to hold down their EZ-up!

Greater sensitivity to burnishing/bedding-in-
Most manufacturers have an explicit, and sometimes intricate, set of instructions for bedding-in their carbon ceramic discs. How many threads are on this forum and the ZR1 forum about pad bed-in and associated problems, warranty claims, noise, etc.? There are a whole bunch of them!

Iron discs can typically be prepared via a simple series of stops from 60-80 mph with the brake pad of choice. If you don't want to do it yourself, we even offer a disc burnishing service with out kits. It's the same process we use for many thousands of discs for professional race teams every year. Your kit arrives at your door ready to drop on the car. Our machine will do a better, more consistent job than you'd ever be able to do, and you won't have to waste a minute of a track session, or risk doing the process on a public road.

Splinters- In all fairness, this one is pretty darn minor and not a major concern more most people...Carbon ceramic discs shouldn't be handled with bare hands, as they can leave carbon splinters in the skin. Iron gets toasty hot but won't stuff a splinter in your hand that will last until the end of time!

Disc summary

I think the bottom line for me with the discs is that I’ve never seen anyone post a picture of one of our AP Racing iron discs that has been oxidized, disintegrated, evaporated, or in any other way damaged or completely destroyed after a dozen or so days on a racetrack. Conversely, there are a number of examples on this forum and elsewhere of C7Z06 CCM's being ruined in that amount of time (here's a good example). That just hasn’t happened, and won't happen with our iron discs. That is regardless of how hot they are run, how much airflow they received, etc. It has happened with the CCM’s though. All of the postulation in the world about how wonderful the CCM technology is on the track won't change that fact. When you look at other popular track day cars with similar equipment, you see the same thing...Porsche, Ferrari, BMW, etc.

There remains an inherent risk to the wallet associated with CCM discs when used on the track. If you destroy yours on the track will they be replaced under warranty since the car was sold as, "racetrack ready"? Some might be, while others will definitely not be. To me that is an expensive gamble, whenever there are other products like our BBK’s that have proven more bulletproof under the duress of track sessions…up to and including 25 hour races on a single disc set.

I do believe that there is absolutely a future in alternative disc materials. It's inevitable. I just don’t believe they are the proper track solution in their current iteration.

Overall Summary

The caliper technology that our AP Racing Pro5000R kits employ is the leading caliper technology in the world. The design itself, and the materials being used, are more advanced than anything else on the planet. The Radi-CAL design has proved dominant across just about all professional racing series. They are a completely different class of product than any OEM caliper. OEM calipers are mass produced at a cost point. When you hold them in your hand, the differences become glaringly obvious.

Our iron disc technology is also the cutting edge of what can be done with an iron disc. They are optimized in a number of ways...vane shape and count, wall thickness, air gap, slot pattern, metallurgy, etc. Those optimizations have been carried out based on last 50 years of AP's experience at the top levels of racing:
  • They have had AP Racing products on cars in nearly 800 Formula 1 victories.
  • The C5, C6, and C7.R's have won Le Mans eight times since the year 2000 on AP Racing caliper and disc technology.
  • With the exception of this year, the AP Racing Radi-CAL caliper has won the NASCAR Sprint Cup Championship every year since its introduction (we did have our brakes on the 2nd and 3rd place cars this year).

There is a mountain of evidence that suggest AP Racing builds the absolute best racing brakes in the world, period.


On the road, who cares? The CCM's are great for that. For most people the discs will last the life of the car during their ownership when set towards the grueling test of Cars and Coffee.

Also, this kit is marketed as an endurance kit it seems like. Would you still recommend this for sprint racing or do you recommend another product?
I TT race so I run 1 warm up lap and 3 flyers and 1 cool down multiple times a day. I would essentially need the brakes and pads up to temp by lap 1. I'm in the mist of needing to replace my front rotors and for the cost of just the rotors, it looks as if I can get a whole kit.
CP9660/372mm Pro5000R BBK

Yes, we have a better solution for you. For those who are sprint racing or doing TT's and don't think they need the 25mm thick pad, we offer the CP9660/372mm kit. It uses the same disc, just a narrower, slightly lighter caliper that uses an 18mm thick pad. It has more wheel clearance, and it also costs $400 less than the endurance spec CP9668 kit.

You can see the two calipers side-by-side below. The CP9660 is in the middle, and the CP9668 is on the right. The discs are the same in both kits. There is some more discussion on these two kits in this thread. There are also some nice owner impressions of the CP9660 kit in that thread, including a gent who want a NASA National championship race on his first time running them.



If you wanted to go REALLY lightweight, we offer both the CP9660 and CP9668 calipers for the C7, mated to our 355mmx32mm, 72 vane discs. For your 5 lap usage, they're probably enough and will shave an additional 4 lbs. off per corner. Essentially they would be only a pound or two heavier than your current front CCM setup. We typically recommend these for our base model and Z51 customers however, as the Z06 is a bit more demanding on the brakes due to it's additional power, weight, aero, and tires. I believe the added beef of the 372x34mm disc in the kits above are more appropriate for our typical customer's use on a C7Z. Again though, it's all about needs, and each situation is different. The cost of entry is a few hundred lower on those (they start at $3899), and the spare iron is a bit less as well (355mm iron is $359 vs. $399 for the 372mm).

You can see those kits here:

CP9668/355mm

CP9660/355mm

I'll try to grab a couple more pics from my other PC and post them here so you can see the differences more clearly between the CP9660 and CP9668.

Here's a shot of the 355mm disc next to the 372mm disc.


Also, any issues you think with bias or anything else running this kit up front and CCM out back?
We now have a number of customers running our front BBK's on the C7Z07 with the OEM CCM's in the back. We have no reported issues, nor do we expect any. Keep in mind that our brake kits very closely mimic the OEM brake torque on a given axle. That means that our kits replicate what's going on at that end of the car. In layman's terms, the rear kit has no idea that anything has changed on the front.

That said, some of our customers have switched to the standard OEM iron rear C7Z06 brakes, which can be had for about $1500. They did so in an effort to preserver their CCM rear brake setup for when they sell the car.

Also of note, we're most likely going to produce a rear two-piece AP Racing J Hook in the standard OEM rear iron size (365x26mm). Customers running the base C7Z06 would then be able to install those discs which would significantly increase cooling over the stock units while dropping some weight most likely (on our rear Z51 discs, we shave 3 lbs. per side while retaining the parking brake).

Okay...that wasn't the short answer I envisioned, but I guess I feel like writing today!

Last edited by JRitt@essex; 06-07-2016 at 10:31 AM.
Old 12-17-2015, 12:17 PM
  #44  
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One other important item I've been meaning to discuss. I've repeatedly been asked about whether or not we'll be releasing 2-piece iron AP Racing discs in the OEM CCM sizes. Could we do it? Absolutely...not a problem. Should we do it, and do you actually want that product? Probably not. Here's why...

As described above, CCM discs are designed to have a massive radiant disc face. The goal is to have a large surface area on the face of the disc to radiate as much heat as possible. The other goal is to have a pad with a taller radial depth, so the resulting heat from the interface of the disc and pad is spread across a greater surface area. That means the OEM disc has a much taller swept area than an aftermarket racing disc. The swept area on the discs in our BBK's are typically 51-55mm tall from ID to OD, whereas the OEM discs tend to have a swept area of 62-66mm. Sixty six mm is fine and dandy when the disc material is extremely lightweight. When you translate that tall of a disc face into iron however, you're talking about a seriously portly disc!

We currently sell a front iron disc for the Ferrari 458/F430 Scud/Lambo Aventador/AMG GT S. It's dimensions are 398x36mm, and it has 84 internal vanes. The iron itself weighs about 26 lbs. When you add the aluminum hat and hardware, you're creeping up on 30 lbs. per disc. Also keep in mind that we typically have the lightest discs vs. the competition. So all of our weights will likely be the lowest available or close to it.

Here are some comparisons...weights below include assembled hats:
AP Racing 355x32mm 72 vane disc, 54mm radial depth (D54) from our Competition BBK's= 17.6 lbs
AP Racing C7 Z51 OEM replacement disc front 345x30, 72 vane, D62= 20 lbs.
AP Racing 372x34mm, 84 vane, D55= 21.1 lbs.
AP Racing 380x34mm, D66= 24 lbs. (this is one we use on the front of the 991 GT3, Huracan, R8, Gallardo, Mustang GT/PP)
AP Racing 398x36mm, 84 vane, D66= 30 lbs.

Now...the OEM C7 Z06 CCM discs are 394x36mm, D66...almost identical to our 398x36mm in overall mass. When you translate that into iron, you're going to be looking at roughly 29 lbs. per disc. The OEM CCM Front disc with hat is 13.4 lbs. That means if you move to an iron disc in the OEM CCM size, you're going to be adding about 15.6 lbs. per corner of unsprung mass per side vs. the CCM setup! That's 30 unsprung lbs. tacked onto the nose of your car. You might as well install the biggest set of 22" chrome wheels you can find, because they will have the same impact on the car's dynamics. A simpler solution would be to tether a cinder block to each wheel.

To take it a step further...the total brake corner weight for our CP9668/372mm kit is approximately 34 lbs. An OEM CCM caliper running an iron 394x36mm disc is going to weigh in at about 46 lbs., or 11 lbs. heavier per corner than our most stout BBK. So choosing iron discs in the OEM size costs you about 20 lbs. of unsprung weight on the nose of your car vs. using our kit.

Our lightest weight BBK (CP9660/355mm) would be about 15-16 lbs. lighter per side vs. the OEM calipers with OEM-sized iron discs.

Call me crazy, but I don't think most track enthusiasts want to ADD 20-30 lbs. to the nose of their already 'big-boned' C7Z06. Adding that much unsprung weight essentially negates all benefits of lightweight wheels, robs HP making it to the wheels, changes steering feel, etc.

That creates a dilemma for us. It's hard for me to present that solution to a customer in good conscience. I don't believe it's the proper solution, even though we're constantly getting pressure to do it. I would never do that on my own personal car, particularly if I was searching everywhere to remove ounces. There's not a lot of places on the nose of these cars to save 20-30 lbs., particularly unsprung.

If we did design a 394x36mm 2-piece disc pair, we'd likely charge $1898 per pair. The rears would most likely be $1798 per pair. That is $3696 for all four corners to replace the CCM units. As described above, our front brake kits for the C7 start at $3899. These cars have far more brake issues on the front than they do on the rear. I know which option I believe will provide the most benefits and the lowest costs, and where I'd sink my money. My advice...think it through and look at the data gents.

Last edited by JRitt@essex; 06-07-2016 at 10:32 AM.
Old 12-17-2015, 05:14 PM
  #45  
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Jeff,

For owners of the Z07 wanting to upgrade to the endurance caliper and rotor above, what options exist for the rear? Are you recommending still running the OEM CCMs in the rear along with the AP Racing replacements?

Also, do the AP units come in colors matching the OEM CCMs, such as the red, etc?

Take care old friend, and have a great Holiday season btw!

Bish
Old 12-18-2015, 06:43 AM
  #46  
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Originally Posted by thebishman
Jeff,

For owners of the Z07 wanting to upgrade to the endurance caliper and rotor above, what options exist for the rear? Are you recommending still running the OEM CCMs in the rear along with the AP Racing replacements?

Also, do the AP units come in colors matching the OEM CCMs, such as the red, etc?

Take care old friend, and have a great Holiday season btw!

Bish
Hey Bish!

Those upgrading to our front BBK the following options:

For owners who currently have the OEM iron rear brakes. Below is the current and future upgrade path:

Current option: Leave your rear iron OEM caliper and discs, and install appropriate race pads and stainless steel brake lines. For some people, this is a viable option. As I've already said too many times, the front brakes on these cars take a much worse beating. For some drivers, on some tracks, in some cars...they're never going to run into any rear brake problems with the OEM rear setup.

Future option A: We plan to offer a 2-piece J Hook disc in the OEM iron rear size, 365x26mm. You would keep the factory caliper and upgrade to the rear J Hook disc. To me, this is the most attractive option in terms of performance for the dollar. You get the superior disc design, lower weight, benefits of a cooler running disc, and a closer aesthetic match to the front BBK with the J Hook slot design.

Future option B: We are currently working on a new Pro5000 rear caliper design with AP Racing. One of our target applications for that caliper is the C7 chassis. If you want the ultimate performance, this is clearly the path. As with the front, our rear brake kit is going to shed a significant amount of weight, run cooler, offer more pad options, more technology, lower long-term running costs, etc., etc. Also, this is obviously the only path if you want all four corners to look the same.

The upside to the staged approach above is that it is need-based. Each driver can determine if they are having any rear brake problems, how severe they are, if they need to be addressed, and how much $ to throw at them if a remedy is required.

For owners who currently have the OEM CCM rear brakes.
Below is the current and future upgrade path:

Current option A: Leave your OEM rear CCM brakes as-is and run them with our front system. The upside to this one is that if you aren't abusing your rear brakes at all, you don't need to buy anything additional. However, the downside is that when you go to sell your car your rear calipers and discs won't be sparkly new like the front CCM calipers and discs you pulled off the car to install our kit. This is a personal choice that each owner needs to address based on their skill level, the tracks they run, and their assessment of how their rear brakes are holding up (or not holding up).

Current option B: Purchase the OEM rear iron brake calipers and discs in black paint (roughly $1500). Follow the iron disc owner upgrade path above, starting with pads/lines, and then our 2-piece discs when they are released. The big benefit of this option is that all four corners of CCM discs and calipers are preserved and go onto the shelf in fresh condition. The cash outlay for the factory rear setup isn't all that bad, and you still have future upgrade options if desired or required.



As for caliper color options...we are following the Henry Ford approach. You can have the calipers in any color you want, as long as they're anodized gray. The nice thing about the anodized calipers is that they aren't going to look like the ones below after 8 laps at the hands of a wicked driver (photo courtesy of our friends at LG Motorsports).



If you plan to beat the sh#t out of your brakes, the anodized finish is a great choice. With anodized it's possible to get a little color shift, but they're nothing like the OEM painted calipers. Personally, I'd rather have plain gray rather than technicolor like the ones above. Nothing screams panache like calipers that are maroon, red, black, silver, and gunmetal with orange writing...all at the same time.

Happy holidays to you too!
Old 12-18-2015, 12:44 PM
  #47  
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Jeff, read your suggestion for existing CCM users to swap to your set up on the front and leave the CCM rotors in the rear and have a question. The rear CCM rotor size is 380mm and your AP front rotors with your kit are 372mm. The CCM brake calipers also generally use pads that have a much larger surface area than calipers used with iron rotors. I know that piston size also play a factor in things but my question is how will brake bias be affected by running a set up like this and then also how does one go about figuring out how to match pads for similar performance etc?
Old 12-19-2015, 09:58 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Werks
Jeff, read your suggestion for existing CCM users to swap to your set up on the front and leave the CCM rotors in the rear and have a question. The rear CCM rotor size is 380mm and your AP front rotors with your kit are 372mm. The CCM brake calipers also generally use pads that have a much larger surface area than calipers used with iron rotors. I know that piston size also play a factor in things but my question is how will brake bias be affected by running a set up like this and then also how does one go about figuring out how to match pads for similar performance etc?
The pad surface area doesn't really factor into the brake torque/bias equation. The pad surface has to do with heat dissipation, not clamping force. Assuming all else is held equal on the car (master cylinder, brake line pressure, center of gravity, etc.), the piston size (clamping force) and effective radius/diameter of the disc (lever arm...or how far from the wheel hub that force is applied) determine the brake torque output on a given axle. If the caliper and everything else stayed the same and you moved it further away from the center of the hub, you're essentially creating a longer lever and a greater amount of torque. If the caliper stayed on a disc of the same diameter, but the piston sizes were increased, you'd have more brake torque output due to the increased clamping force.

In racing, the calculations become more complex because you aren't limited to keeping the master cylinder, pedal box/ratio, etc. all the same. There are more components that need to me matched properly. On a production car however, we essentially hold these other components as a constant, because our customers want a bolt-on application that doesn't require changing these things. In other words, our primary tools to achieve proper bias are disc diameter and caliper piston size.

First we look at the disc. We decide how big of a disc the application needs in terms of heat capacity. For the C7Z, we decided that our 355x32mm would work, but probably wouldn't provide the long-term durability many of our customers are seeking. That disc has been proven time and again, but we wanted a bit more thermal mass to keep spare usage down. As such, we increased the diameter to 372mm. We also added a bit more beef via in increase from 32 to 34mm, and we went from 72 internal cooling vanes up to 84. In racing, we go as light as humanly possible on the disc, because every ounce counts. If a disc is completely used up immediately after the car wins the race and crosses the finish line, then we know it was the perfect disc for that race. That's why in NASCAR Sprint Cup for example, we have a bunch of different setups depending on the track they're driving on any given weekend. On an easy braking super speedway, the brakes are super lightweight and don't take much abuse. Conversely, those tanks need a serious brake package when they run Watkins Glen. For the aftermarket however, our customers don't want to 'just make it' through a HPDE session. They want durability in addition to a lightweight package. As such, we overbuild the discs a bit to provide that durability. Another consideration is wheel fitment. We wanted to keep the diameter small enough to fit inside 18" wheels. To add thermal mass, we went thicker, rather than larger diameter...more vanes for additional cooling and disc face stability.

Once we establish the appropriate disc size, we have to figure out what piston bores will get us to the same basic torque output as the OEM equipment on that axle. So if we are using a disc that is smaller than OEM, we have to go a little larger than stock on the piston bores. If we decide to bigger than stock on the disc diameter, we have to go smaller than stock on the piston bores. Those are the two primary 'moving' components during the system design.

Other factors to consider are pedal travel and effort. If you were to size a system that has dramatically larger pistons than stock, then you're displacing a larger amount of brake fluid into the pistons than you are in the OEM system. That will decrease how hard you have to push on the pedal, but also leads to a long pedal...not good, and not something our customers want.

The one factor I left out is pad coefficient of friction. That's the one other factor that can impact brake torque. We typically hold that as a constant however. All of our customers are going to be changing pads. In most cases they're going from a low mu street pad to a high mu racing pad. If you put the same coefficient of friction pads in both ends of the car, they negate any bias shift to either end of the car, and you've essentially created another constant.

In terms of the CCM pads, there's nothing terribly different about the pad mu than you'd see on pads used on iron systems. In other words, it's not as if running the OEM CCM pads is going to dramatically change brake torque output. If you threw a set of Pagid or Ferodo pads in the caliper, their mu is going to be fairly similar.

Also of note...in practical terms, some of the above factors have a greater impact on bias than the others as you carry out the calculations and try to choose the proper components. Piston size tends to have the most impact, followed by disc diameter, then pad mu. In other words, if you put a high mu race pad in your front calipers and left everything else the same...that's going to create less of a frontward bias shift than if you increased all of the piston diameters in your front caliper by 2mm.

Also of note...nailing down the proper front to rear bias isn't exact, and it doesn't need to be. It does need to be very close to stock however to integrate seamlessly with the vehicle. For example, if the stock front bias is 64.2%, we're not likely going to see any ill effects if we change that to 65.7%. If we changed it to 72%, we'd have a mess. The ABS would go bananas, your rear brakes wouldn't be doing their share of the workload, your stopping distances would get longer, and if that torque increase was achieved via significantly larger caliper pistons on the front (rather than a monstrous disc that requires a 26" wheel), you'd have a long pedal and the system would generally feel terrible (while also being ineffective).

In the case of the C7Z, the master cylinder stays the same on both iron shod and CCM cars. That means the torque output on either end of the car is determined by the combo of piston size, disc diameter, and pad mu. If the target torque output on the front of the car is X, that can be achieved by manipulating the above factors to achieve X. That X is just achieved in different manners. The CCM discs are larger in diameter than the OEM iron ones, so the piston bores in the calipers that mate to the CCM discs are smaller to produce the same torque output. X is still achieved however. So if you leave the rear alone and swap out your front OEM iron system in favor of the front CCM's, the combination of components still produce brake torque output X on the front. In the case of our brake kit, we're simply replicating X via our disc diameter and piston choice. If those components are chosen correctly and X is achieved, the car doesn't 'know' anything has changed.

In terms of pad choice, let's say your front brake torque is the X above, and you're running the OEM iron system. If you decide to run a high mu race pad in the front and leave the rear pads stock, you're going to take your front brake torque to X+ 2%, and the relationship to the rear changes slightly. You've shifted your bias a tiny bit to the front. If our kit also achieves X, using that same front race pad in our kit will have the exact same impact on the relationship to the rear.

The brake torque on the rear of the car is Y...determined by the factors above. Just as we saw with X above, that Y is just reached in a slightly different manner by the OEM iron and CCM brake packages, but it's still Y. As long as the front remains approximately X, everything remains happy in brake bias land, and all systems work in harmony on both ends of the car.
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Old 12-19-2015, 12:45 PM
  #49  
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Thanks for taking the time to go into detail in regards to my question Jeff. A few posts above you mentioned that you guys are working on a Pro5000 rear caliper for the C7Z application (I'm guessing that will also work on the C6Z/ZR1) do you have any idea on when you expect that to be available? I have a few other questions but I'll PM you them after the hollidays.
Old 12-21-2015, 03:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Werks
Thanks for taking the time to go into detail in regards to my question Jeff. A few posts above you mentioned that you guys are working on a Pro5000 rear caliper for the C7Z application (I'm guessing that will also work on the C6Z/ZR1) do you have any idea on when you expect that to be available? I have a few other questions but I'll PM you them after the hollidays.
No worries. It was the perfect Saturday morning activity over coffee!

For the C6, we have the same basic front kits currently using the CP9660 and CP9668 calipers up front (the brackets and disc hats are different, but the iron and calipers are essentially the same). For the C6 rear, we already have a great kit that has been running successfully on cars all over the world: CP5040/340mm Competition BBK A couple of the guys in this Pro5000R thread are running it.

That said, we will almost definitely design another rear kit for the C5/C6 using the new Pro5000R rear caliper. I just can't really give a timeline on that kit, whereas our CP5040 kit above is on the shelf and ready to ship today for the C6.
Old 01-19-2016, 11:48 AM
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Hello Gents,
I hope you're all off to a great start in 2016. We had a great year in 2015, and would like to thank you all for your continued support! We've been extremely busy over the winter. We launched our new website, filmed some cool technical videos on our products, and are still pressing forward on the development of new Corvette products.

You can follow our latest developments on our blog and on our Facebook page.

Who is Essex?

Have you ever wondered who was on the other end of the line when you call Essex for brake advice? In this video we give you a peek behind the curtain, and show you some of the tools we use to bring you the latest brake technology on the planet.



AP Racing J Hook Brake Discs

What design elements and features make our discs the most trusted choice in professional and amateur motorsports? Find out how our discs can help you lower temperatures, weight, and lap times.



Ferodo Racing Brake Pads
Founded in England in 1897, Ferodo was the first company in the world to be entirely dedicated to the design and manufacture of friction products! Ferodo is an OEM supplier to the world's leading car manufacturers, and are used by many of the top names in motorsports. The Ferodo Racing pad range includes some of the most advanced braking materials available today.



AP Racing Radi-CAL Brake Fluid
AP Racing offers the perfect brake fluid for your car, regardless of whether you're chasing groceries or lap times. Superior performance at competitive prices, and Essex always has inventory on the shelf when you need it.



Finally...here is your gratuitous brake **** pic of the day...a batch of AP Racing Radi-CAL brake calipers in for re-certification. You can click here to read more about what we do with these beauties when they arrive at our HQ.



Thanks, and best wishes to all the Z drivers in 2016 and beyond.
Old 01-21-2016, 11:52 AM
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great info
Old 02-02-2016, 08:10 AM
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AP Racing Radi-CAL's and J Hook Discs carried the C7.R's to a 1-2 finish in the 24 Hours at Daytona over the weekend. If you want the same technology for your C7Z, we have it available now!




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Old 03-02-2016, 08:01 AM
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Emerging from the cocoon bump! Track season is just around the corner for much of the country, and we're getting hit with a million questions about our brake systems. We have these kits fully built on the shelf and ready to ship today. Get your order in if you would like one of them.
Old 03-02-2016, 08:51 AM
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Thanks for taking the time to talk through these brakes this morning, Jeff.

I'm looking forward to receiving the kit and getting them on the car.

For those following the thread, I am going to swap these front calipers and rotors for my CCBs and I'll post my thoughts after I get them installed. The consumable price on these CCBs is more than I can choke down long term given the amount of time I spend on the track.
Old 03-02-2016, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by 2016 Z
Thanks for taking the time to talk through these brakes this morning, Jeff.

I'm looking forward to receiving the kit and getting them on the car.

For those following the thread, I am going to swap these front calipers and rotors for my CCBs and I'll post my thoughts after I get them installed. The consumable price on these CCBs is more than I can choke down long term given the amount of time I spend on the track.
No worries, and thanks so much for the order! As you found out, our complete front kit doesn't cost a whole lot more than replacing your front CCM discs and pads after the track eats them!
Old 03-04-2016, 04:30 PM
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Fitz89
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Default Worth twice the price

Just dropping in to say thanks again to Jeff and Essex.
Jeff was able to get us a Brake kit just prior to Daytona in the fall and we planned on testing different pad combinations to run the Essex/AP Fronts with the OE CCM rears but we ran into an unrelated issue and the season was cut short.
The Calipers and rotors are just sitting there taunting me - There is no question they are eye candy for any racer and we look forward to putting them through hell on track by Mid April.
For anyone with the CCM brakes that plans to do more than a couple track days a year, these brakes will without question pay for themselves. I will be at all of the Mid-Atlantic NASA events and select Chin Motorsports HPDE Days if you would like to see the brakes in person.

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Old 03-04-2016, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Fitz89
Just dropping in to say thanks again to Jeff and Essex.
Jeff was able to get us a Brake kit just prior to Daytona in the fall and we planned on testing different pad combinations to run the Essex/AP Fronts with the OE CCM rears but we ran into an unrelated issue and the season was cut short.
The Calipers and rotors are just sitting there taunting me - There is no question they are eye candy for any racer and we look forward to putting them through hell on track by Mid April.
For anyone with the CCM brakes that plans to do more than a couple track days a year, these brakes will without question pay for themselves. I will be at all of the Mid-Atlantic NASA events and select Chin Motorsports HPDE Days if you would like to see the brakes in person.

I'll be at mid-Ohio nasa days as well as the Chin day on 5/31.
Old 03-04-2016, 06:41 PM
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I'm going to shoot for the Chin event at MO as well.
Old 03-07-2016, 08:47 AM
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Thanks Fitz!

You guys should see quite a few of our Essex/AP Racing BBK's at the Chin events on various other cars as well. Scott Bartlett (one of the Chin event organizers) is running our kit on his BRZ, and a couple of the other driving instructors in BRZ's are running them as well. We also have various generations of M3's, S2000's, Porsche GT3's on 2-piece J Hook discs, etc. out there. Thanks for the continued support gents.


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