MT Z06-Viper-Porsche GT3 RS report
01-25-2016, 05:41 PM
#21
Le Mans Master
Conditions!
Read it/see it here: http://www.motortrend.com/news/2016-...he-911-gt3-rs/. The results have appeared on the forum before, but there is some interesting input from the testers that I don't think we have seen before. I wonder if the Z06 loose rear end issue would have been less if Randy had tried a different PTM setting.
01-25-2016, 05:43 PM
#22
Considering MT has done track sessions with the Z06 (during the Nismo vs. Z07 test), they know that taking a cool down lap helps. I think the times would towards the end of the session become fairly close. The Kumhos apparently aren't great for lasting very long and once the Sport Cup 2s get warm (tires on both the GT3 RS and Z07), they don't grip well.
While I somewhat agree, the GT3 RS has a better aero set up that creates downforce, but not as much drag. It also has a PDK vs. the TR6070 in the Z. 140 and 138 definitely isn't bad though considering the 918 and P1 will do about 150, and both of those cars make over 800 horsepower.
I won't say they're "idiots" as they are credible and ran a same day test between all three cars. I will say however, why didn't they get help from the techs (from Porsche and Chevy) if they felt the cars weren't set up right? I'm pretty sure Jim Mero was there and I'm confident Porsche sent a team as well.
While I somewhat agree, the GT3 RS has a better aero set up that creates downforce, but not as much drag. It also has a PDK vs. the TR6070 in the Z. 140 and 138 definitely isn't bad though considering the 918 and P1 will do about 150, and both of those cars make over 800 horsepower.
I won't say they're "idiots" as they are credible and ran a same day test between all three cars. I will say however, why didn't they get help from the techs (from Porsche and Chevy) if they felt the cars weren't set up right? I'm pretty sure Jim Mero was there and I'm confident Porsche sent a team as well.
01-25-2016, 05:51 PM
#23
Tech Contributor
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"Ask Tadge" Producer
Perhaps they didn't ask for the help, or when it was offered it was ignored? Dunno. It'll be interesting to see what Tadge says since AliZ51's question about the MT test was sent on Sunday.
01-25-2016, 06:55 PM
#24
Melting Slicks
01-25-2016, 07:01 PM
#25
Melting Slicks
I agree but they should run the cars with the factory supplied alignment. If the want to make sure its correct fine. But no other adjustments should be made. This off course for all cars.
01-25-2016, 07:04 PM
#26
Safety Car
The only thing I see in the report that justifies GT3 RS>Corvette Z06 is that the Porsche does it with less power. Does what, (certainly was slower on the track)? So what if the mixture is different? Terrible way to justify giving the Z a 3rd place.
Not sure where I would put the Z in the ranking, but one thing to consider is that a track car must be cheap because a ton of money is spent on consumables. Then you have to consider the going market price and that the Z is substantially cheaper than both.
To conclude, I'd say the Viper won fair and square in this track comparison. Then there is a "OTHERS" category and the Z and GT3 RS are in there equally. Either that or give the edge to the Z because you won't see an RS at the track on 99% of track days due to cost.
Not sure where I would put the Z in the ranking, but one thing to consider is that a track car must be cheap because a ton of money is spent on consumables. Then you have to consider the going market price and that the Z is substantially cheaper than both.
To conclude, I'd say the Viper won fair and square in this track comparison. Then there is a "OTHERS" category and the Z and GT3 RS are in there equally. Either that or give the edge to the Z because you won't see an RS at the track on 99% of track days due to cost.
01-25-2016, 07:21 PM
#27
Le Mans Master
I like that they do the Pobst test, but I think it'd also be good to get a "lesser" driver from Motor Trend to drive lap times and see what a lesser driver can manage. To me, that'd be more representative of what the car will do in most peoples hands.
I can wish I guess. I know they are time limited doing shooting, pictures, driver switches, blah blah blah.
In the end, hey...the Z06 is cheap, daily driver worthy and can still lay some *** whippin...can't bitch too much I suppose. I just hate seeing corvette take third in any contest...oh well I guess...it is what it is.
I can wish I guess. I know they are time limited doing shooting, pictures, driver switches, blah blah blah.
In the end, hey...the Z06 is cheap, daily driver worthy and can still lay some *** whippin...can't bitch too much I suppose. I just hate seeing corvette take third in any contest...oh well I guess...it is what it is.
01-25-2016, 07:54 PM
#28
I'm with you RC000E. Can't stand when the vette takes the back seat but considering a chart they showed in that article. It's the cheapest in the top 5. Amongst HyperCars!! That's a win for all vette fans. The Viper kicked *** and we all knew that it would.
01-25-2016, 08:00 PM
#29
Funny, every time I get in the car, the steering wheel is right in front of me, maybe theirs was in the glove box? My only complaint about the AC is that my feet are colder than the rest of my body, so in the summer I have to wear socks. The noise is no louder than an S2000, or similar, despite a massive engine up front and side-exit exhausts. I put about 1,000 miles on mine every month, ranging from grocery shopping to road trips.
The only thing I hate when driving it is taking it for a fuel fill-up. Why? People will bother me to ask about it and take pictures every damn time.
01-25-2016, 08:04 PM
#30
Scraping the splitter.
The only thing I see in the report that justifies GT3 RS>Corvette Z06 is that the Porsche does it with less power. Does what, (certainly was slower on the track)? So what if the mixture is different? Terrible way to justify giving the Z a 3rd place.
Not sure where I would put the Z in the ranking, but one thing to consider is that a track car must be cheap because a ton of money is spent on consumables. Then you have to consider the going market price and that the Z is substantially cheaper than both.
To conclude, I'd say the Viper won fair and square in this track comparison. Then there is a "OTHERS" category and the Z and GT3 RS are in there equally. Either that or give the edge to the Z because you won't see an RS at the track on 99% of track days due to cost.
Not sure where I would put the Z in the ranking, but one thing to consider is that a track car must be cheap because a ton of money is spent on consumables. Then you have to consider the going market price and that the Z is substantially cheaper than both.
To conclude, I'd say the Viper won fair and square in this track comparison. Then there is a "OTHERS" category and the Z and GT3 RS are in there equally. Either that or give the edge to the Z because you won't see an RS at the track on 99% of track days due to cost.
S.
01-25-2016, 08:26 PM
#31
Safety Car
So the badass Kumhos on the Viper seem to be working their way into perpetual backorder on TireRack, which is probably going to be symbolic of the availability of that tire. Based on what Dodge said about the V720 at ACR release, they are faster than slicks. It's going to be interesting when people end up going to a slower tire. And while those tires are VERY reasonably priced, it seems like tire life even for HPDE is VERY short.
S.
S.
I'm not sure if I believe they are stickier than slicks, certainly not every slick. I do believe they are stickier than Cup 2s.
From what I gathered at the track from the owners the ACRs can run at least 4 track days on one set of Kumhos. The one guy that seemed to destroy them quicker also ran about 4 seconds faster than either of the two I talked to. So at this point I can't say that they wear faster than the Cup 2s. The guys who ran 4 track days did 1:37.x at Laguna Seca which is faster than what I run, and I definitely destroy my Cup 2s in 4 track days.
01-25-2016, 10:50 PM
#32
Availability is a bitch but wasn't it the same for our Michelin's just after the Z's release?
I'm not sure if I believe they are stickier than slicks, certainly not every slick. I do believe they are stickier than Cup 2s.
From what I gathered at the track from the owners the ACRs can run at least 4 track days on one set of Kumhos. The one guy that seemed to destroy them quicker also ran about 4 seconds faster than either of the two I talked to. So at this point I can't say that they wear faster than the Cup 2s. The guys who ran 4 track days did 1:37.x at Laguna Seca which is faster than what I run, and I definitely destroy my Cup 2s in 4 track days.
I'm not sure if I believe they are stickier than slicks, certainly not every slick. I do believe they are stickier than Cup 2s.
From what I gathered at the track from the owners the ACRs can run at least 4 track days on one set of Kumhos. The one guy that seemed to destroy them quicker also ran about 4 seconds faster than either of the two I talked to. So at this point I can't say that they wear faster than the Cup 2s. The guys who ran 4 track days did 1:37.x at Laguna Seca which is faster than what I run, and I definitely destroy my Cup 2s in 4 track days.
That said I once saw a chart of how long track tires last based upon annual income. Pretty much true
01-25-2016, 11:19 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
What's up? The Corvette gets no points for being the "greenest" of the three? Least CO2, best fuel economy, most hp. There is no justice!
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Daekwan06 (01-27-2016)
01-25-2016, 11:35 PM
#34
Intermediate
Congrats to US!
Man can you imagine... we have two AMERICAN cars racing on Laguna Seca, and beating out high dollar european cars that have been known for racing pedigree for generations...
Look at the top 12 places at LS, 8 are held by Viper or Corvette...and our cars at least 1/3 the price. Who cares who "won" as we are all winning right now. The GT350 may also break into this group.
Germans, Italians, Brits, have to put at a min. $300,000 cars on the line to do the same... heck two of the 12 are on each side of $1.0 million!
I will say, although I own a Viper ACR-E, and am hoping to get a C7R, Corvette has done an amazing thing at the price point for sure! Now if we could get an ACR type Corvette... I'm in for that!
Way to go America... way to go Corvette, and way to go Viper SRT!
Look at the top 12 places at LS, 8 are held by Viper or Corvette...and our cars at least 1/3 the price. Who cares who "won" as we are all winning right now. The GT350 may also break into this group.
Germans, Italians, Brits, have to put at a min. $300,000 cars on the line to do the same... heck two of the 12 are on each side of $1.0 million!
I will say, although I own a Viper ACR-E, and am hoping to get a C7R, Corvette has done an amazing thing at the price point for sure! Now if we could get an ACR type Corvette... I'm in for that!
Way to go America... way to go Corvette, and way to go Viper SRT!
Last edited by Augdog1964; 01-25-2016 at 11:36 PM.
01-25-2016, 11:53 PM
#35
A very contradictory article...lacks credibility.
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Lavender (01-26-2016)
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01-26-2016, 12:08 PM
#37
Melting Slicks
Obviously, in the hands of enthusiasts and not pro drivers the accessibility of the GT3 may produce faster lap times than the RS or Cup cars (but not the RSR?)
Last edited by 05dsom; 01-26-2016 at 12:08 PM.
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Augdog1964 (01-26-2016)
01-26-2016, 02:19 PM
#39
Melting Slicks
However, it’s (GT3 RS) just not as good to drive as the regular flavor GT3 is. “The GT3’s magical handling has somehow been deleted with the addition of the RS badge,” Cammisa says. “Whereas the GT3 was perfectly neutral, the RS flings itself into corners *** first and then understeers through the rest of the turn.” The GT3 RS felt like an old-school 911, specifically the Widowmaker, i.e., the 996 GT2. Near the limit, the GT3 RS was an oversteering handful. A talented (amateur) driver friend of mine explained that on the same track he was faster in the GT3 than in the GT3 RS. I think that’s going to be the case unless you’re a professional.