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Imagine all those aficionados of the 'German Engineered Mercedes Benz' keeling over with heart attacks because a Chevrolet beat them out on quality! Gasp!
The LS7 is a dead duck. It's yesterday's motor and it has no place in today's (or tomorrow's) Corvette. At no point in Corvette's recent history have they have used a previous generation small-block Chevy in one of the models.
Folks have to understand that big cube, high HP, N/A engines are done for. The Z/28 was a limited run car and GM knew not many people were going to buy it (and look: they didn't). I'll bet the number of GSs they sell in one year overshadows the Z/28's entire run.
Remember: this car in its current form has to last the entirety of the C7 line, however long that is. So even if the LS7 could meet today's very strict emissions standards, will it be able to by the end of the C7's run? Not likely. Further, a new engine under the hood of the car will require expensive recertification for emissions and FE. They have to do it.
Really cause as a current 15 stingray owner i'd take a hellcat engine over the Z06 engine any day and anyone that disagrees is either butthurt or has no common sense!!! FACTS!
Hellcat engine is superior to the Z06 engine in everyway possible! Not to mention the ZF 8 speed in the hellcats is better than the GM 8 speed in our cars!!!
I'm not biased like 95% of the guys on here, i speak the truth.
Only reason i didn't go hellcat is because of the weight of the car. Had it weighed about 500-600 pounds less i wouldn't have even looked at the vette.
I don't think anyone can convince you. How about some FACTS to convince us? The lt4 has been great engine so far.
I will admit I hate the 1lt in the stingray as the one I had spewed oil
and was very poor engine.
I owned two LS 7s 09/12 drove both 25000 miles each no problems. GM must trust the LS7 to put it in the Z28. It's less complicated than the c7 power plant mine got an honest 28mpg on trips and 20 in town unless I stood on it, my 15 z51 had a hard time matching that unless I ran 4 cyl mode.
I would take a c7 with it any day over the base c7 power plant. I have a 16 Z06 coming I will save my comments till I drive it some. I have dragged raced and ran corvette club events on speedways. My family has folks that worked for NASCAR,who was a crew chief for two teams, and competition director for woods brothers. Just so you folks have a clue about my back ground.
z51vett
Doug
One other note care to guess why these LT engines blow up it ain't oil filters.
Starting point look at where the thrust bearing is and it's only a half guess what rod and piston go out number 6.
1LT is a trim level, it's the same as the 1LZ trim on the Z06. I think the name you're looking for is LT1. In my opinion it's a great engine, but hey, everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
1LT is a trim level, it's the same as the 1LZ trim on the Z06. I think the name you're looking for is LT1. In my opinion it's a great engine, but hey, everyone's entitled to their own opinion.
My opinion is based on owning the lt1 and 2 ls7 Z06's.
The old ls7 trounces the lt1 and is very much the cooler engine. With the 7k redline.
The power doesn't fall off like the lt1. The C7 has better traction helping the 60ft. The zo6's take some fitness but there's no doubt which is faster
Your opinion is based on?
My opinion is based on owning the lt1 and 2 ls7 Z06's.
The old ls7 trounces the lt1 and is very much the cooler engine. With the 7k redline.
The power doesn't fall off like the lt1. The C7 has better traction helping the 60ft. The zo6's take some fitness but there's no doubt which is faster
Your opinion is based on?
The LT1 is in a 200 lb heavier car and has the same torque and HP curve as the LS7 to 4K rpm. On paper it sounds like it ought to be an easy loss to the C6Z but when it comes to keeping up with one on a race track it isn't that simple. They are fast, they come off a corner better and will beat a Z06 to the next corner if the straight isn't very long. On a long straight where the extra HP above 4K rpm starts to come into play the Z06 will start to catch up and pass the other but it will still be close. If you don't believe me run nose to tail with one around a corner, roll onto the gas and see which one gets to the next turn first. I am not talking about the stop light grand prix or a quick trip around a freeway ramp. I am talking about cornering at 1.3 Gs, rolling onto the throttle at the apex of the turn and being wide open at the track out point and holding it wide open for the next couple thousand feet.
Been there done that and was surprised at how well a street tired C7 Z51 with an A8 could launch off a corner and leave my C6Z on R compound tires straining to keep up. Yes, I would start gaining pretty damned fast about half way down the straight but I had some distance to make up and there was the small problem of a sharp, slow speed corner just about at the point where I caught him and no way in hell either one of us was going to negotiate it at a buck 25.
I can still remember the first time he did it. I was following him through the apex of a turn in 2nd gear and as I rolled onto the throttle he just left me like I forgot to hit the gas pedal.
The LT1 is in a 200 lb heavier car and has the same torque and HP curve as the LS7 to 4K rpm. On paper it sounds like it ought to be an easy loss to the C6Z but when it comes to keeping up with one on a race track it isn't that simple. They are fast, they come off a corner better and will beat a Z06 to the next corner if the straight isn't very long. On a long straight where the extra HP above 4K rpm starts to come into play the Z06 will start to catch up and pass the other but it will still be close. If you don't believe me run nose to tail with one around a corner, roll onto the gas and see which one gets to the next turn first. I am not talking about the stop light grand prix or a quick trip around a freeway ramp. I am talking about cornering at 1.3 Gs, rolling onto the throttle at the apex of the turn and being wide open at the track out point and holding it wide open for the next couple thousand feet.
Been there done that and was surprised at how well a street tired C7 Z51 with an A8 could launch off a corner and leave my C6Z on R compound tires straining to keep up. Yes, I would start gaining pretty damned fast about half way down the straight but I had some distance to make up and there was the small problem of a sharp, slow speed corner just about at the point where I caught him and no way in hell either one of us was going to negotiate it at a buck 25.
I can still remember the first time he did it. I was following him through the apex of a turn in 2nd gear and as I rolled onto the throttle he just left me like I forgot to hit the gas pedal.
Bill
And in the real world on the street where there are bumps......no way you would dive into any unknown corner/curve with a C6 like you would with a C7. The C6 can probably execute the maneuver but you wouldn't feel confident about it.
Wow, not only am I surprised how much quicker the Z is than the Stingray, I'm equally as surprised how much faster the ACR is.
Unlike most, however, that doesn't get my underwear in a knot. They're both fast cars, and none of us (likely) can drive them at that level anyway, so it doesn't matter how big your wallet is, you're not cutting a 1.29 in any car!
I think it's safe to say the Grand Sport could likely pull a 2 second better time at Laguna versus the Stingray. Fact is, Bill is referring to car to car action and his review really doesn't get any more "real world" than that. The dynamics of the two cars are close enough that an LT1 car can certainly "play" with an LS7 car on a track, and the Grand Sport should have even further advantage over the Stingray so...we should at least see an equivalent car here. According to GM, the GS is only 1 second behind the C6 ZR1 at the test track they have. I think the GS, with mild engine mods, is the C7 to own.
I hate to do this, (And I have huge respect for Bill) BUT:
Here is a comparison of the cars in question. With the same professional driver on the same track, the Camaro Z28 with the old LS7 was faster than the Stingray. The Stingray trails the 2012 Z06 Z07 by 3.9 seconds. The 2012 Z06 is 1.3 seconds behind the C7 Z06/Z07 full stage 3 aero monster while the C6 ZR1 trails the C7Z by a whole 0.6 seconds. They may be easier for the average guy to drive fast, but the new Corvettes are not that much faster than the last generation. Any way you slice it, a 22% increase in power, massive traction management and a big aero package resulted in 1.3 seconds better than the 2012 Z06 with the old Pilot Sport Cup tires. A guy has to wonder if we dragged out that old 2012 Z06 and gave it the newest tires and a little more aero like the Katech setup where they would stack up when the dust settled? God forbid we should think about bumping power on the LS7.
The real problem for the Corvette enthusiast is the Viper. 4.4 seconds over the best we've got is just a plain old fashioned Asswuppin.
That's a disingenuous comparison at best. You use the absolute ringer of a time for the ACR with the mopar crew on hand...then compare it to a non-factory outing for the Z06 which was done on a "green" track and those are Randy Pobsts comments. No question in better conditions the Z06 has another second or more in it as was witnessed by the ACR also being 2-3 seconds slower than its lap record on the same day the Z06 was tested.
I'm going to laugh at everyone that says the GS is going to be a better track car when the times come out... Lol. Yeah, already laughing.
You talking 1 lap, or 10? I don't think anyone is under the delusion that the GS will best the Z06 in a single lap scenario. But if the GS can live up to expectations and post up a very respectable lap time; and go lap, after lap, after lap without additional reservoirs and radiators to keep the car from having a seizure...what's wrong with that? Some people prefer N/A, others prefer boosted for their track car. Comes down to personal preference IMO.
Dodge/Chrysler isn't exactly an automotive company which should be emulated in any way.
You are right, when there is a design flaw that effected 5% of the V-10 motor, they don't sweep it under the rug, they put out a recall to update the design flaw, send out your oil for testing of any contamination, if there is any you get a brand new 2016 engine no cost.
They never did anything with the LS7 issues, the smart owners had the heads fixed out of pocket to solve the problem, where GM should have done for free.
I hate to do this, (And I have huge respect for Bill) BUT:
Here is a comparison of the cars in question. With the same professional driver on the same track, the Camaro Z28 with the old LS7 was faster than the Stingray. The Stingray trails the 2012 Z06 Z07 by 3.9 seconds. The 2012 Z06 is 1.3 seconds behind the C7 Z06/Z07 full stage 3 aero monster while the C6 ZR1 trails the C7Z by a whole 0.6 seconds. They may be easier for the average guy to drive fast, but the new Corvettes are not that much faster than the last generation. Any way you slice it, a 22% increase in power, massive traction management and a big aero package resulted in 1.3 seconds better than the 2012 Z06 with the old Pilot Sport Cup tires. A guy has to wonder if we dragged out that old 2012 Z06 and gave it the newest tires and a little more aero like the Katech setup where they would stack up when the dust settled? God forbid we should think about bumping power on the LS7.
The real problem for the Corvette enthusiast is the Viper. 4.4 seconds over the best we've got is just a plain old fashioned Asswuppin.
I'll take Bill's actual track experience over your magazine experience and cute little spreadsheets every day and twice on track days.
S.
You talking 1 lap, or 10? I don't think anyone is under the delusion that the GS will best the Z06 in a single lap scenario. But if the GS can live up to expectations and post up a very respectable lap time; and go lap, after lap, after lap without additional reservoirs and radiators to keep the car from having a seizure...what's wrong with that? Some people prefer N/A, others prefer boosted for their track car. Comes down to personal preference IMO.
Funny, because you say that as if EVERY Z has had overheat issues at the track... That's like calling all black guys thugs because some are in prison, is that your style lol?
There is no question to it, be it one lap or more, the GS will NOT be the better track car. More weight, more drag, more rotational mass, less power to weight than the Z... Sounds like a great winning track combination... I don't know why any professional organization doesn't follow the same formula.
The GS is nothing but a body kit for the self esteem issued Stingray crowd. And that is fine, non issue. But let's not all make believe Chevy did this to make a better track car lol.
You are right, when there is a design flaw that effected 5% of the V-10 motor, they don't sweep it under the rug, they put out a recall to update the design flaw, send out your oil for testing of any contamination, if there is any you get a brand new 2016 engine no cost.
They never did anything with the LS7 issues, the smart owners had the heads fixed out of pocket to solve the problem, where GM should have done for free.
Dodge ignored it for the last few years and recently announced the R28/R29 recalls. I was watching these issues last year, and at the time there were close to 20 failures posted on the VOA alone. They did a nice job of burying the issue on that forum by creating a sticky and making owners who had an engine failure "register" it on a list that never saw the light of day. A pretty disingenuous way of helping the community recognize the problem, IMO. The oil consumption/recovery and engine failure rate is alarmingly high for such a low production car. But it's no surprise that you make it out to be no big deal.
S.
Funny, because you say that as if EVERY Z has had overheat issues at the track... That's like calling all black guys thugs because some are in prison, is that your style lol?
There is no question to it, be it one lap or more, the GS will NOT be the better track car. More weight, more drag, more rotational mass, less power to weight than the Z... Sounds like a great winning track combination... I don't know why any professional organization doesn't follow the same formula.
The GS is nothing but a body kit for the self esteem issued Stingray crowd. And that is fine, non issue. But let's not all make believe Chevy did this to make a better track car lol.
No, but you certainly took my statement that way...why so defensive? Are you insinuating that there aren't any track related heat issues? There are certainly quite a few well respected vendors developing cooling mods for the Z...including GM with their secondary rad. I certainly have no problem admitting that they are catering to a select few that push their cars at the track...most simply do not push their cars that hard. Secondly, your comments about race were lowbrow and simply not needed to try and illustrate your point. You seem to be solely focused on lap time and I'm merely saying some people prefer to track an N/A car vs a boosted car. What you consider to be the "best" car (fastest 1 lap) may not be what many others consider to be the best car to run at a track.
04-02-2016, 06:36 PM
