Gas thread. Using E85 to bump octane.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,961
Likes: 2,643
From: Texas Hill Country
99% really? http://www.pure-gas.org/
You are from Texas, right? Practically every station in my state has it available.
Not arguing there, but if he does things carefully it should work. Do you not agree?
And it's no more difficult than figuring out how much Torco additive you need to add, or race gas to mix.
You are from Texas, right? Practically every station in my state has it available.
Not arguing there, but if he does things carefully it should work. Do you not agree?
And it's no more difficult than figuring out how much Torco additive you need to add, or race gas to mix.
Torco and race gas do not have different fueling requirements from gasoline. Alcohol has completely different fueling requirements and combustion characteristics.
If he's really super careful he can get the mix right and get himself some E9 and then what did he accomplish? You can get E10 anywhere so then really, what's the point?
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,961
Likes: 2,643
From: Texas Hill Country
BTW, in Texas, if I filter out 93 octane (no 87 or 89, thanks) and find it in a city with an actual population of more people than cows or is within a realistic distance to a racetrack I get a handful of stations. People don't drive 100 miles one way for a tank of gas then another way to use it, especially just to go from E10 to E0, which is pointless anyways.
I haven't seen an E0 pump in probably 15 years.
I haven't seen an E0 pump in probably 15 years.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 555
Likes: 49
From: Slinger, WI
BTW, in Texas, if I filter out 93 octane (no 87 or 89, thanks) and find it in a city with an actual population of more people than cows or is within a realistic distance to a racetrack I get a handful of stations. People don't drive 100 miles one way for a tank of gas then another way to use it, especially just to go from E10 to E0, which is pointless anyways.
I haven't seen an E0 pump in probably 15 years.
I haven't seen an E0 pump in probably 15 years.
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 257
From: Oklahoma City OK
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 257
From: Oklahoma City OK
You can get 87 rated octane E10 anywhere. 91 Octane pure gas + 12% E85 is something better than 91 octane E10. That is the point.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 555
Likes: 49
From: Slinger, WI
I guess my concern is that with the 2017 I am giving up 70 hp due to using 91 octane. 93 E0 is rare and expensive. I really wish GM would just fix my 2016 NRB Z.
And thanks for all the comments, I appreciate it.
[img]webkit-fake-url://2fe4d665-64b1-4709-9b2b-8c552b601d50/imagejpeg[/img]
And thanks for all the comments, I appreciate it.
[img]webkit-fake-url://2fe4d665-64b1-4709-9b2b-8c552b601d50/imagejpeg[/img]
Last edited by K1600GT; Nov 17, 2016 at 05:32 PM. Reason: Add photo
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,961
Likes: 2,643
From: Texas Hill Country
Do you really think you will notice a difference between E10 and a scientifically measured 18 gallons of 91 E0 + 2 gallons of E85?
Are they available at the same gas station? How fast will it get old driving to two different pumps or even two different stations?
What happens when you drain your tank, put exactly two gallons of E85 and exactly 18 gallons of 91 E0, drive it around for half a tank or 3/4 of a tank and then need more gas. Are you going to recalculate every time? Or are you going to do this only when you want to race at the track and drain the tank every time and then measure?
All I am telling you with all this is that it's not worth your trouble. I am trying to make your life easier.
Buy gasoline. When you want a bump add some race gas from a 5 gallon jug of VP or use some Torco (race gas is my preference). It's quick, easy, and in your garage.
Alternatively, if you have E85 readily available, install a flex sensor and tune and your car will adjust spark and fueling automagically, just keep it under the maximum amount of ethanol your fuel system will support (maybe E55 on a stock Z06).
Keep it simple. The mixing thing gets old in a hurry, but I'm not the one dealing with it so it's all you, man!
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,961
Likes: 2,643
From: Texas Hill Country
just be down 70 hp (do you have a link showing this discrepancy?) until you need 70 more HP and dump 5 gallons of MS109 in there and go.
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Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,961
Likes: 2,643
From: Texas Hill Country
Why do you think you have 91 instead of 93? OKC is 1200 ft elevation, you may not have the oxygen/atmospheric pressure to support 93 anyways.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 555
Likes: 49
From: Slinger, WI
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums/c7-z06-discussion/3905777-took-my-2017-z06-to-the-dyno-got-vids-and-s.html
Drifting
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,327
Likes: 257
From: Oklahoma City OK
Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 635
Likes: 118
From: Lakemont, GA
I guess my concern is that with the 2017 I am giving up 70 hp due to using 91 octane. 93 E0 is rare and expensive. I really wish GM would just fix my 2016 NRB Z.
And thanks for all the comments, I appreciate it.
[img]webkit-fake-url://2fe4d665-64b1-4709-9b2b-8c552b601d50/imagejpeg[/img]
And thanks for all the comments, I appreciate it.
[img]webkit-fake-url://2fe4d665-64b1-4709-9b2b-8c552b601d50/imagejpeg[/img]
Your options to solve this issue are below:
Install the appropriate equipment to run ethanol fuels and tune the car for ethanol. This will give you outstanding power when using E85 however will void your warranty. It will also result in lower fuel range for the vehicle. (Warning opinion statement follows) Mixing fuels is a recipe for problems unless you are sampling fuel after every fill.
Add octane booster (torco is very popular). This will allow the engine to run with more spark advance however is expensive. This will not void your warranty but costs a bit more.
The DI system on these engines is calibrated for fuel with between 0 and 10% alcohol. Adding additional alcohol will create a fuel with more pre-ignition resistance however will also reduce the specific energy and not use all of the oxygen in the cylinder. The car will run lean.. period.
Would you add kerosene to improve fuel economy on your car? My answer would be no.
Not looking to get into an argument over this, but facts are facts. I have been playing with gasoline engines for a long time (including running alcohol go-karts).
Hope this helps, Chris
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 555
Likes: 49
From: Slinger, WI
I understand your frustration, I am very lucky to have 93 and ethanol free fuel where I live (mostly used in boats).
Your options to solve this issue are below:
Install the appropriate equipment to run ethanol fuels and tune the car for ethanol. This will give you outstanding power when using E85 however will void your warranty. It will also result in lower fuel range for the vehicle. (Warning opinion statement follows) Mixing fuels is a recipe for problems unless you are sampling fuel after every fill.
Add octane booster (torco is very popular). This will allow the engine to run with more spark advance however is expensive. This will not void your warranty but costs a bit more.
The DI system on these engines is calibrated for fuel with between 0 and 10% alcohol. Adding additional alcohol will create a fuel with more pre-ignition resistance however will also reduce the specific energy and not use all of the oxygen in the cylinder. The car will run lean.. period.
Would you add kerosene to improve fuel economy on your car? My answer would be no.
Not looking to get into an argument over this, but facts are facts. I have been playing with gasoline engines for a long time (including running alcohol go-karts).
Hope this helps, Chris
Your options to solve this issue are below:
Install the appropriate equipment to run ethanol fuels and tune the car for ethanol. This will give you outstanding power when using E85 however will void your warranty. It will also result in lower fuel range for the vehicle. (Warning opinion statement follows) Mixing fuels is a recipe for problems unless you are sampling fuel after every fill.
Add octane booster (torco is very popular). This will allow the engine to run with more spark advance however is expensive. This will not void your warranty but costs a bit more.
The DI system on these engines is calibrated for fuel with between 0 and 10% alcohol. Adding additional alcohol will create a fuel with more pre-ignition resistance however will also reduce the specific energy and not use all of the oxygen in the cylinder. The car will run lean.. period.
Would you add kerosene to improve fuel economy on your car? My answer would be no.
Not looking to get into an argument over this, but facts are facts. I have been playing with gasoline engines for a long time (including running alcohol go-karts).
Hope this helps, Chris
Im also going to call GM and bitch.
Race Director
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 10,961
Likes: 2,643
From: Texas Hill Country
I understand your frustration, I am very lucky to have 93 and ethanol free fuel where I live (mostly used in boats).
Your options to solve this issue are below:
Install the appropriate equipment to run ethanol fuels and tune the car for ethanol. This will give you outstanding power when using E85 however will void your warranty. It will also result in lower fuel range for the vehicle. (Warning opinion statement follows) Mixing fuels is a recipe for problems unless you are sampling fuel after every fill.
Add octane booster (torco is very popular). This will allow the engine to run with more spark advance however is expensive. This will not void your warranty but costs a bit more.
The DI system on these engines is calibrated for fuel with between 0 and 10% alcohol. Adding additional alcohol will create a fuel with more pre-ignition resistance however will also reduce the specific energy and not use all of the oxygen in the cylinder. The car will run lean.. period.
Would you add kerosene to improve fuel economy on your car? My answer would be no.
Not looking to get into an argument over this, but facts are facts. I have been playing with gasoline engines for a long time (including running alcohol go-karts).
Hope this helps, Chris
Your options to solve this issue are below:
Install the appropriate equipment to run ethanol fuels and tune the car for ethanol. This will give you outstanding power when using E85 however will void your warranty. It will also result in lower fuel range for the vehicle. (Warning opinion statement follows) Mixing fuels is a recipe for problems unless you are sampling fuel after every fill.
Add octane booster (torco is very popular). This will allow the engine to run with more spark advance however is expensive. This will not void your warranty but costs a bit more.
The DI system on these engines is calibrated for fuel with between 0 and 10% alcohol. Adding additional alcohol will create a fuel with more pre-ignition resistance however will also reduce the specific energy and not use all of the oxygen in the cylinder. The car will run lean.. period.
Would you add kerosene to improve fuel economy on your car? My answer would be no.
Not looking to get into an argument over this, but facts are facts. I have been playing with gasoline engines for a long time (including running alcohol go-karts).
Hope this helps, Chris
We cleaned house, lol.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 635
Likes: 118
From: Lakemont, GA
Looking at the mix charts adding 16 oz of Torco to 10 gallons of gas raises the octane 5 pts and is a linear function. To raise 15 gallons of 91 octane to 93.5 would take 12 ounces of Torco. A 32 ounce bottle on Amazon is about 24 bucks and would give you two full tanks and a little more. Not really a bad deal to get your HP back.
Got a good chuckle when I saw Meth Lab. Thanks.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 635
Likes: 118
From: Lakemont, GA
It's amazing what kind of power you can get out of 5HP briggs if you try hard enough. I ran them in the early 90s and had an absolute blast. Nothing like over 60 mph with your a$$ an inch off the ground.
Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 635
Likes: 118
From: Lakemont, GA
For what it is worth if I could not purchase 93 I would be buying Torco, and still may for track days.
Thread Starter
Pro
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 555
Likes: 49
From: Slinger, WI
I just pulled the MSDS for Torco and it is a blend of petroleum distillates (just like gasoline is) and should not have an effect on the mixture like alcohol will.
Looking at the mix charts adding 16 oz of Torco to 10 gallons of gas raises the octane 5 pts and is a linear function. To raise 15 gallons of 91 octane to 93.5 would take 12 ounces of Torco. A 32 ounce bottle on Amazon is about 24 bucks and would give you two full tanks and a little more. Not really a bad deal to get your HP back.
Got a good chuckle when I saw Meth Lab. Thanks.
Looking at the mix charts adding 16 oz of Torco to 10 gallons of gas raises the octane 5 pts and is a linear function. To raise 15 gallons of 91 octane to 93.5 would take 12 ounces of Torco. A 32 ounce bottle on Amazon is about 24 bucks and would give you two full tanks and a little more. Not really a bad deal to get your HP back.
Got a good chuckle when I saw Meth Lab. Thanks.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/201069534095?lpid=82&chn=ps&ul_noapp=true
Melting Slicks
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,475
Likes: 97
From: KY/TN
St. Jude Donor '13-'14-'15-'16
Is this the right Torco. Looks like a good deal if it is and appears too be 116 octane so maybe need even less.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/2010695...&ul_noapp=true
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/2010695...&ul_noapp=true
If your looking for the octane booster you want the Torco accelerator.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Best-Fue...YAAOxyFrNRzQN~
Pro
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 635
Likes: 118
From: Lakemont, GA
Is this the right Torco. Looks like a good deal if it is and appears too be 116 octane so maybe need even less.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/2010695...&ul_noapp=true
http://www.ebay.com/itm/like/2010695...&ul_noapp=true
https://www.amazon.com/Torco-Acceler.../dp/B004ZO3VN0
They make quite a few things including lubricants.
Thanks, Chris