Camera experiments
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Camera experiments
I recorded my drive to dinner last night using a series of three cameras:
I'm debating whether I want to use the PDR camera, which is 720p/30FPS, and combine it with a rear-facing GoPro (1080p/60FPS), or just ignore the PDR camera and use 2 GoPros. Bear in mind: I'm not keen on GoPros because the quality of what they record is basically amateur-hour (GoAmateur). But it's what I have. The thing is, if I do combine the PDR with the GoPro, I'll want to scale the PDR's vid up to 1080p/60FPS. That's creating pixels out of nothing, as well as 30 frames/sec out of nothing. I'm not sure I like that idea.
Then again, I'm not filming the next Oscar-winning docu-drama, either.
So, with that, here's the PDR with the rear-facing GoPro. The PDR is scaled up to 1080p/60FPS to match the GoPro. The rear camera's vid is scaled down 50% and moved up, as you can see:
And here's the 2 GoPros together:
A couple of notes:
Which do folks prefer?
- The OEM PDR
- GoPro Hero 4 Session, suction-cupped to the windshield
- GoPro Hero 3 Silver, attached to the harness bar and facing rearward
I'm debating whether I want to use the PDR camera, which is 720p/30FPS, and combine it with a rear-facing GoPro (1080p/60FPS), or just ignore the PDR camera and use 2 GoPros. Bear in mind: I'm not keen on GoPros because the quality of what they record is basically amateur-hour (GoAmateur). But it's what I have. The thing is, if I do combine the PDR with the GoPro, I'll want to scale the PDR's vid up to 1080p/60FPS. That's creating pixels out of nothing, as well as 30 frames/sec out of nothing. I'm not sure I like that idea.
Then again, I'm not filming the next Oscar-winning docu-drama, either.
So, with that, here's the PDR with the rear-facing GoPro. The PDR is scaled up to 1080p/60FPS to match the GoPro. The rear camera's vid is scaled down 50% and moved up, as you can see:
And here's the 2 GoPros together:
A couple of notes:
- No sound. I had the top off and it was mostly wind noise. So I just cut it out.
- Yes, I need to re-position the rear camera up a bit more, and pointed down.
Which do folks prefer?
Le Mans Master
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From: Redmond WA
I'm as much a cinematographer as... well, I'm so not one I can't even think of an analogy.
You sound pretty down on the GoPro, but aren't the GoPro pretty widely used in professional filmmaking? I see them strapped to drones, every in-car shot, and so on. As a layman, the specs seem impressive enough and in BRIGHT LIGHT they seem to record great quality.
Then again, for any non-professional use I think the PDR looks pretty decent, actually. For a factory camera on the back of a mirror, not bad at all!
I've got a hunch the GoPro in the second video is doing or has had some image stabilization applied though. It looks markedly different.
PS: The high mount (PDR) looks better than the low mount (GoPro) in terms of location.
You sound pretty down on the GoPro, but aren't the GoPro pretty widely used in professional filmmaking? I see them strapped to drones, every in-car shot, and so on. As a layman, the specs seem impressive enough and in BRIGHT LIGHT they seem to record great quality.
Then again, for any non-professional use I think the PDR looks pretty decent, actually. For a factory camera on the back of a mirror, not bad at all!
I've got a hunch the GoPro in the second video is doing or has had some image stabilization applied though. It looks markedly different.
PS: The high mount (PDR) looks better than the low mount (GoPro) in terms of location.
Last edited by davepl; Feb 19, 2017 at 12:09 PM.
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From: Northern VA
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Le Mans Master
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From: Redmond WA
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Ah, OK. I misunderstood what you meant. I don't know if the Hero Session has any sort of built-in stabilization. The section cup mount from Ram may have contributed to that as well.
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Just for some contrast, I run a mixture of: PDR,
-Gopro5, side view
-Cannon camcorder with remote mic on rear fascia
-Contour HD on rear fascia
I blend the sound from the PDR with the rear mic and contour...
-Gopro5, side view
-Cannon camcorder with remote mic on rear fascia
-Contour HD on rear fascia
I blend the sound from the PDR with the rear mic and contour...
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I hate you Gene. So tempting. However I'm trying to do this on the "cheap", as it were, and use hardware I already have. Which is why I'm relying on a ~2 year old GoPro Hero 3, when GoPro is up to Hero 5 at this point. :-)
Yep, that's true. It'll likely look a lot better in mid-day when I'm at the track.
Originally Posted by spearfish25
GoPros do well in bright conditions. Their sensitivity gain is crumby in the dark.
Racer
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I have an older model gopro hero 3 'black' (so the expensive model, not the consumer value-priced variants). The quality of those videos far exceed anything I see here. 30 MB/s video. --It's not the resolution, its the bitrate. Bitrate is quality. (1080 and 30frames per second, mean nothing if you don't have the bitrate to go with it).
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I have an older model gopro hero 3 'black' (so the expensive model, not the consumer value-priced variants). The quality of those videos far exceed anything I see here. 30 MB/s video. --It's not the resolution, its the bitrate. Bitrate is quality. (1080 and 30frames per second, mean nothing if you don't have the bitrate to go with it).
Frame rate in high-speed motion can't be dismissed, either. I've had people watch my older vids done in my ZR1 with 30FPS cameras say, "You look like you're warping between those two corners. Are you actually moving that fast?!" Well, yeah, I am moving that fast, but adding 30 more frames per second would make that transition from corner 2 to 3 seem a lot smoother, if that makes sense.
To quote the great Mr. Miyagi, "Balance, Daniel-san."
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What is the real point of this exercise? To be used for track day? Daily driving? Honestly what you have is overkill and I would not even use the PDR if you want quality. Go spend less than $200 bucks and get 2 dashcams that are 1080P, 1 forward and 1 backward, and call it a day IMO. You can even get a dual dashcam set up for a bit more money.
Last edited by Garret; Feb 21, 2017 at 09:04 AM.
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I apologize that I didn't make the point of the exercise clear. If you'll permit me:
I'm one of the long time track dogs here on CF, and this exercise is purely for recording track time. Not daily driving. There's no point in recording daily driving; I was only using the drive to dinner that evening as a way to test the camera quality and perspectives, that's all. But as was pointed out correctly: the fading light did cost me some due to crappy gain on the GoPros. They really don't have very good sensors in them, which is why they're so inexpensive.
I own the cameras. I'm trying to see what I can accomplish without spending any further money. It's not that I can't spend the money, it's just that I see no need in having a pile of video cameras laying about.
I also wanted to see what the PDR footage would like after being upscaled to 1080p and having 30 extra frames per second generated out of nothing.
And finally I was wondering what others thought of the footage as far as camera position, etc. A common response I hear from the "2 GoPros" vid is that folks seem to like having the hood in view. I can understand that, but I'm not quite sure about that since more hood means less "other things" in the vid. However, I think I can work around it.
Does that make sense now?
I'm one of the long time track dogs here on CF, and this exercise is purely for recording track time. Not daily driving. There's no point in recording daily driving; I was only using the drive to dinner that evening as a way to test the camera quality and perspectives, that's all. But as was pointed out correctly: the fading light did cost me some due to crappy gain on the GoPros. They really don't have very good sensors in them, which is why they're so inexpensive.
I own the cameras. I'm trying to see what I can accomplish without spending any further money. It's not that I can't spend the money, it's just that I see no need in having a pile of video cameras laying about.
I also wanted to see what the PDR footage would like after being upscaled to 1080p and having 30 extra frames per second generated out of nothing.
And finally I was wondering what others thought of the footage as far as camera position, etc. A common response I hear from the "2 GoPros" vid is that folks seem to like having the hood in view. I can understand that, but I'm not quite sure about that since more hood means less "other things" in the vid. However, I think I can work around it.
Does that make sense now?
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I like the PDR and rear facing camera. However, I would put the rear view in the upper left corner. The PDR will provide on screen evidence of car operation: track mode, rpms, gs, brake and throttle inputs and lap times. I know you have a data system but the PDR makes it easy to capture that info without having a lot of stuff in the car. There is only so much data that is useful after that you get inundated with it and it stops making sense.
The reason I say put the rear view in the upper left is because all it will block is the track map. As far as not seeing parts of the car in the PDR field of view in bright sun light I get an annoying reflection off the dash board that makes the center grille on the dashboard visible in my videos.
Bill
The reason I say put the rear view in the upper left is because all it will block is the track map. As far as not seeing parts of the car in the PDR field of view in bright sun light I get an annoying reflection off the dash board that makes the center grille on the dashboard visible in my videos.
Bill
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I believe in the Beer Fairy
I apologize that I didn't make the point of the exercise clear. If you'll permit me:
I'm one of the long time track dogs here on CF, and this exercise is purely for recording track time. Not daily driving. There's no point in recording daily driving; I was only using the drive to dinner that evening as a way to test the camera quality and perspectives, that's all. But as was pointed out correctly: the fading light did cost me some due to crappy gain on the GoPros. They really don't have very good sensors in them, which is why they're so inexpensive.
I own the cameras. I'm trying to see what I can accomplish without spending any further money. It's not that I can't spend the money, it's just that I see no need in having a pile of video cameras laying about.
I also wanted to see what the PDR footage would like after being upscaled to 1080p and having 30 extra frames per second generated out of nothing.
And finally I was wondering what others thought of the footage as far as camera position, etc. A common response I hear from the "2 GoPros" vid is that folks seem to like having the hood in view. I can understand that, but I'm not quite sure about that since more hood means less "other things" in the vid. However, I think I can work around it.
Does that make sense now?
I'm one of the long time track dogs here on CF, and this exercise is purely for recording track time. Not daily driving. There's no point in recording daily driving; I was only using the drive to dinner that evening as a way to test the camera quality and perspectives, that's all. But as was pointed out correctly: the fading light did cost me some due to crappy gain on the GoPros. They really don't have very good sensors in them, which is why they're so inexpensive.
I own the cameras. I'm trying to see what I can accomplish without spending any further money. It's not that I can't spend the money, it's just that I see no need in having a pile of video cameras laying about.
I also wanted to see what the PDR footage would like after being upscaled to 1080p and having 30 extra frames per second generated out of nothing.
And finally I was wondering what others thought of the footage as far as camera position, etc. A common response I hear from the "2 GoPros" vid is that folks seem to like having the hood in view. I can understand that, but I'm not quite sure about that since more hood means less "other things" in the vid. However, I think I can work around it.
Does that make sense now?
Yep, I agree trying to use what you have as why spend if you don't have too. The PDR is a POS plain and simple. If does what the regular guy wants like record a track lap...etc.etc. Gopros are old, look great in the daylight, but fading light...yeah, you're screwed
Don't care about the insert picture stuff, you really need multiple cameras and edit versus insert IMO. Even more money
Kinda why I suggested dashcams, the ones today are nice and small, cheap and work pretty decent in low light.
Last edited by Garret; Feb 21, 2017 at 12:38 PM.
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Don't care about the insert picture stuff, you really need multiple cameras and edit versus insert IMO. Even more money
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And fortunately, from that perspective, all of my track time is in bright daylight. It's either blazingly hot and sunny at Summit Point, or it's raining like hell. If the latter, I'm not running, so it doesn't matter.
I'm not sure I follow what you mean by "insert picture stuff"?
I'm not sure I follow what you mean by "insert picture stuff"?
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Oh. Well that's not "more money", that's just a different editing style. I'd rather have the "rear view mirror" sort of thing going (after properly rotating the video horizontally) so that you can see what's behind me at all times.