When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Although I love all cars and yours of course I have recently got into retro rods & resto rods...If these GT's and 458's are so amazing and easy to drive fast then why does a ZL1 1LE beat them around Laguna Seca or any other track? Just asking so please educate me.
Greg
Greg -
Sure.
Let's first go back to the original premise by a previous poster that stated the 2005/2006 Ford GT would be a great Daily Driver (DD) and that neither Ferrari nor Lamborghini had a car that was its equal and not even in the same league.
So my point was that I own a Ferrari 458, a Lamborghini Murcielago and a Ford GT and that my personal experience was that these three cars are, in fact, in the same league.
Further, I stated, and I quote ".....the Ford GT and the Ferrari 458 are simply easier cars to drive quickly, with higher confidence levels, for the average sports car enthusiast and driver.
Mid-engine cars simply have better balance and steer more precisely, in my opinion; and there is more to a daily-use sports car than raw horsepower numbers and straight line performance."
No where did I say, or even hint, that a street-oriented and equipped 2006 Ford GT or a Ferrari 458 Italia, were track-rat cars or that they could defeat, or post better lap times, than a track-oriented car such as the amazing Camaro ZL1 1LE, with track oriented tires, aggressive aero components and very hard suspension.
These three cars are, in my opinion, more usable and more enjoyable on the street as a DD than would be a track-tired & suspended Camaro ZL1 1LE.
You are attempting to compare apples & oranges and therefore drawing false & misleading conclusions. The discussion was about a competent, fast, great driving Daily Driver - Ford GT, Ferrari or Lamborghini and were all these cars in the same league as a DD.
The Camaro ZL1 1LE is a great track car that you can drive on the street, not an all-around great sports car that you could use as a DD. I refer you to the following article for GM's design intent for the Camaro ZL1 1LE:
"...Camaro bossman Al Oppenheiser shared an after-dinner story with us about his new Camaro ZL1 1LE, the laser-focused track-day special version of the brutal ZL1."
"...Rule number one in business is to know thy customer. As such, the Camaro team knows that track rats love nothing more than being able to make adjustments to their toys."
"...Let’s get the bad news out of the way. As a result of the decision to hard-mount the dampers to the car—and this is me being charitable—ride quality is not great. Being less kind—especially if you’re on ripped up, lumpy pavement—the ZL1 1LE’s ride flat-out sucks. It’s brutal, and over big bumps at speed, the rear end seems to run out of travel. That’s the trade-off for supercar handling everywhere else. Can you live with the car as a daily driver? Yes. Just avoid potholes like the plague."
So does the Camaro ZL1 1LE sound like a pleasant, fun to drive, truly usable Daily Driver to you?
Track oriented tires make a huge difference on any car - how many people on this forum have removed Pilot Sport Cup 2s from their Z06/Z07? It is simply not a great tire for DD, but is a fantastic, marginally streetable, tire for the track.
I stated clearly that my opinion is a mid-engine sports is easier to drive for the average sports car enthusiast and driver. I am not a Randy Probst, and I stand by that statement as every friend of mine that has driven my sports cars back-to-back all state how easy the Ferrari is drive quickly on the street and the back roads compared to my other cars. Never did I say lap times or race track.
There are many great articles and videos on the internet about sports cars, but here is one that stands out in that it summarizes my opinion and personal experience with the 458 Italia with better words than I can muster:
Randy Probst is an outstanding race car driver and knows how to distill traits of cars better than anyone I know of. Here are the relevant excerpts:
"...Angus, leaning against our bright yellow 458 Italia. “It changes everything. The rest of ’em are now playing catch-up.”
“Angus,” I said. “Have you ever driven a better car?”
“Well,” he started. “There are certain cars better suited to other situations.”
“Never mind all that,” I said. “Have you ever driven a better car?”
“No,” MacKenzie replied. “Never.”
And while numerically some contenders came close (the sticky-tired Corvette was faster around the track), digits don’t tell a story. People do, and the praise lavished on the Ferrari is basically never-ending. “It was just so much fun,” beamed Reynolds
Driver Randy Probst had so much fun, he forgot to talk during one of his laps and “had to” do an extra. He poured it on. “Steering is super accurate. The gearbox really makes those H-patterns feel like antiques. These brakes liked the heat. Yeah, the hotter I got ’em, the better they worked, and they held up just fine. An extremely well-behaved car. A real favorite of mine.” Everybody else’s, too.
There is no perfect sports car, but this might be the closest mankind has come.” From Lago: “Could you drive the 458 daily? Yes.” And even with that damn worthy praise, the 458 remains a true performance machine. If the GT3 RS is a sparring partner and the GT-R a supercomputer that happens to drive really well, the 458 is something in between. Lago also points out that if you get on the throttle at 70 mph in seventh gear, the resulting downshifts are the first three notes of a major chord. Jurnecka might have best summed up the 458. “For the first time ever, perhaps, nitpicking a Ferrari is nigh impossible.”
That’s the tricky part when talking about this mid-engine Ferrari. There aren’t any flaws. The 458 has the best seats, the best steering feel, the best engine sound. It even has the best ride. Climbing out of the Nissan and into the 458 Italia on our road loop was eye-popping. Compared with the Ferrari, the GT-R rides like a garbage truck. Everything is harsh, uncomfortable, and rackety. The 458 feels polished, cozy, almost relaxed. Angus kept noting how smartly soft the bushings were, whereas the GT3 RS and the GT-R seemed determined to knock the filling from your cannoli. The Best Driver’s Car shouldn’t beat up its driver. The Ferrari doesn’t. It cossets you, begging you to drive harder, faster, and for longer.
With the exception of the Corvette and its race-compound tires, the 458 was the fastest car around Laguna Seca. It was the second-quickest to 60 mph (3.2 seconds), and the second-fastest through the quarter mile at 11.3 seconds, just a tenth behind the GT-R and its AWD drag-racing advantage. More telling, the 458’s trap speed of 125.6 mph was nearly 5 mph faster than the Nissan’s.
Point being, a tenth here and a tick there, sure, but the two cars perform in virtually the same manner. But it’s the way the Ferrari does the deed that’s so special. It’s the fine quality of its actions, the satisfaction it gives to its pilot, and the simple sense that nothing else even comes halfway close that make the Ferrari 458 Italia the 2012 Motor Trend Best Driver’s Car. As Loh quipped, “This car’s perfect. Let’s eat.”
So, in summary I continue to believe that a modern mid-engined sports car is easy and very satisfying to drive for the average sports car enthusiast and normal driver and can easily be used as a DD, vs. a highly focused, track oriented car.
I can show you Nurbergring lap times of mid-engine cars that blow the Camaro ZL1 1LE away, but that really isn't the point is it.
Lastly, if I handed you $300K and told you that you can buy one car for use as a Daily Driver with this money (and you can't pocket any balance of $$ left over), would you buy the Camaro ZL1 1LE or would you buy a Ferrari 458 Italia, Ferrari 488 GTB, McLaren 570S, etc.?
Dave...really great review and write up. Many or most of your comments were spot on. Now, in the argument of which car does what better, I am sure the Z06 out does the others with getting stone chipping on the sides, worse. Such a beautiful car, $100,000 worth of automobile sex appeal, and it gets blemished so badly. Chevrolet should be ashamed of winning that award....
Let's first go back to the original premise by a previous poster that stated the 2005/2006 Ford GT would be a great Daily Driver (DD) and that neither Ferrari nor Lamborghini had a car that was its equal and not even in the same league.
So my point was that I own a Ferrari 458, a Lamborghini Murcielago and a Ford GT and that my personal experience was that these three cars are, in fact, in the same league.
Further, I stated, and I quote ".....the Ford GT and the Ferrari 458 are simply easier cars to drive quickly, with higher confidence levels, for the average sports car enthusiast and driver.
Mid-engine cars simply have better balance and steer more precisely, in my opinion; and there is more to a daily-use sports car than raw horsepower numbers and straight line performance."
No where did I say, or even hint, that a street-oriented and equipped 2006 Ford GT or a Ferrari 458 Italia, were track-rat cars or that they could defeat, or post better lap times, than a track-oriented car such as the amazing Camaro ZL1 1LE, with track oriented tires, aggressive aero components and very hard suspension.
These three cars are, in my opinion, more usable and more enjoyable on the street as a DD than would be a track-tired & suspended Camaro ZL1 1LE.
You are attempting to compare apples & oranges and therefore drawing false & misleading conclusions. The discussion was about a competent, fast, great driving Daily Driver - Ford GT, Ferrari or Lamborghini and were all these cars in the same league as a DD.
The Camaro ZL1 1LE is a great track car that you can drive on the street, not an all-around great sports car that you could use as a DD. I refer you to the following article for GM's design intent for the Camaro ZL1 1LE:
"...Camaro bossman Al Oppenheiser shared an after-dinner story with us about his new Camaro ZL1 1LE, the laser-focused track-day special version of the brutal ZL1."
"...Rule number one in business is to know thy customer. As such, the Camaro team knows that track rats love nothing more than being able to make adjustments to their toys."
"...Let’s get the bad news out of the way. As a result of the decision to hard-mount the dampers to the car—and this is me being charitable—ride quality is not great. Being less kind—especially if you’re on ripped up, lumpy pavement—the ZL1 1LE’s ride flat-out sucks. It’s brutal, and over big bumps at speed, the rear end seems to run out of travel. That’s the trade-off for supercar handling everywhere else. Can you live with the car as a daily driver? Yes. Just avoid potholes like the plague."
So does the Camaro ZL1 1LE sound like a pleasant, fun to drive, truly usable Daily Driver to you?
Track oriented tires make a huge difference on any car - how many people on this forum have removed Pilot Sport Cup 2s from their Z06/Z07? It is simply not a great tire for DD, but is a fantastic, marginally streetable, tire for the track.
I stated clearly that my opinion is a mid-engine sports is easier to drive for the average sports car enthusiast and driver. I am not a Randy Probst, and I stand by that statement as every friend of mine that has driven my sports cars back-to-back all state how easy the Ferrari is drive quickly on the street and the back roads compared to my other cars. Never did I say lap times or race track.
There are many great articles and videos on the internet about sports cars, but here is one that stands out in that it summarizes my opinion and personal experience with the 458 Italia with better words than I can muster:
Randy Probst is an outstanding race car driver and knows how to distill traits of cars better than anyone I know of. Here are the relevant excerpts:
"...Angus, leaning against our bright yellow 458 Italia. “It changes everything. The rest of ’em are now playing catch-up.”
“Angus,” I said. “Have you ever driven a better car?”
“Well,” he started. “There are certain cars better suited to other situations.”
“Never mind all that,” I said. “Have you ever driven a better car?”
“No,” MacKenzie replied. “Never.”
And while numerically some contenders came close (the sticky-tired Corvette was faster around the track), digits don’t tell a story. People do, and the praise lavished on the Ferrari is basically never-ending. “It was just so much fun,” beamed Reynolds
Driver Randy Probst had so much fun, he forgot to talk during one of his laps and “had to” do an extra. He poured it on. “Steering is super accurate. The gearbox really makes those H-patterns feel like antiques. These brakes liked the heat. Yeah, the hotter I got ’em, the better they worked, and they held up just fine. An extremely well-behaved car. A real favorite of mine.” Everybody else’s, too.
There is no perfect sports car, but this might be the closest mankind has come.” From Lago: “Could you drive the 458 daily? Yes.” And even with that damn worthy praise, the 458 remains a true performance machine. If the GT3 RS is a sparring partner and the GT-R a supercomputer that happens to drive really well, the 458 is something in between. Lago also points out that if you get on the throttle at 70 mph in seventh gear, the resulting downshifts are the first three notes of a major chord. Jurnecka might have best summed up the 458. “For the first time ever, perhaps, nitpicking a Ferrari is nigh impossible.”
That’s the tricky part when talking about this mid-engine Ferrari. There aren’t any flaws. The 458 has the best seats, the best steering feel, the best engine sound. It even has the best ride. Climbing out of the Nissan and into the 458 Italia on our road loop was eye-popping. Compared with the Ferrari, the GT-R rides like a garbage truck. Everything is harsh, uncomfortable, and rackety. The 458 feels polished, cozy, almost relaxed. Angus kept noting how smartly soft the bushings were, whereas the GT3 RS and the GT-R seemed determined to knock the filling from your cannoli. The Best Driver’s Car shouldn’t beat up its driver. The Ferrari doesn’t. It cossets you, begging you to drive harder, faster, and for longer.
With the exception of the Corvette and its race-compound tires, the 458 was the fastest car around Laguna Seca. It was the second-quickest to 60 mph (3.2 seconds), and the second-fastest through the quarter mile at 11.3 seconds, just a tenth behind the GT-R and its AWD drag-racing advantage. More telling, the 458’s trap speed of 125.6 mph was nearly 5 mph faster than the Nissan’s.
Point being, a tenth here and a tick there, sure, but the two cars perform in virtually the same manner. But it’s the way the Ferrari does the deed that’s so special. It’s the fine quality of its actions, the satisfaction it gives to its pilot, and the simple sense that nothing else even comes halfway close that make the Ferrari 458 Italia the 2012 Motor Trend Best Driver’s Car. As Loh quipped, “This car’s perfect. Let’s eat.”
So, in summary I continue to believe that a modern mid-engined sports car is easy and very satisfying to drive for the average sports car enthusiast and normal driver and can easily be used as a DD, vs. a highly focused, track oriented car.
I can show you Nurbergring lap times of mid-engine cars that blow the Camaro ZL1 1LE away, but that really isn't the point is it.
Lastly, if I handed you $300K and told you that you can buy one car for use as a Daily Driver with this money (and you can't pocket any balance of $$ left over), would you buy the Camaro ZL1 1LE or would you buy a Ferrari 458 Italia, Ferrari 488 GTB, McLaren 570S, etc.?
Cheers - Dave
I may have to sell a flying toy and get a 458 if I can find one! I have loved this car since they first offered it! Thanks for the garage picks and well thought out comments.
Looks like performance numbers are about the same except for top speed. Of course the FGT costs about $370,000 more.
Good observation and it will indeed be interesting to see how the two cars and the upcoming ZR1 shake out.
The Ford's price and provenance is largely irrelevant. The former is a function of its build volume. Had Ford built as many as the last iteration then the price tags would have been similar. Ford could cut the build volume in half still and the price would double while the performance would not change one iota. Price is all too often a very poor predictor of performance.
As for the latter, the Ford's very provenance proves the point. Remember why the GT40 existed in the first place. Because Enzo Ferrari snubbed Henry Ford II and told him effectively that Ford could not challenge the Ferrari bluebloods because...well...Ferrari. We all know how that turned out.
So now we have the question of whether or not the new supposed Blueblood (Blue Oval Blood?) can be challenged by anyone else supposedly lesser. Some may not like how that too turns out.
Turns out opponents, especially American ones, don't just kneel because you say your name and tout who you are. You want that performance title you are going to have to earn it. That goes for everyone, including Ford.
The 2017 Ford GT is a great car. Can't afford to own one, but I am quite happy with my '17 Z06.
I bought the Z to go to the track and learn to drive a high performance car. Last sports car I have owned was 1972 Lotus Europa. So I am not a life long high performance driver.
I do invite a Ford GT owner to drive to SLC and we'll do a track day at Utah Motorsports Campus, open track days coming up Sept 30, October 28, and November 1. Would have to be an amateur vs amateur, I don't care the experience. Just for fun. Both on Sport Cup 2s.
I will be willing to make a modest wager that would cover their fuel and motel room if I loose. I would post my PDR video on this forum win or loose.
Any takers?
First off, I doubt there are any owners of the new GT on this board to see your offer. Secondly, I doubt you will see many (any) owners tracking the new GT. Why? Because what happens when you wad it up? You can't just call up Ford and get another one. The selection process was your one & only chance to get one. There will be no more.
As an aside, I've been a long time Ford owner, countless Mustangs,Explorers, F-150's, a 2005 Ford GT, and my small company's fleet (9) turning over every three years for the last thirty. I thought the chances for me to obtain a new one were slim, but I still filled out the application. Ford had stated they were going to mete them out to people who promoted the brand and they wanted the new car to be seen. My 2005 GT has ~35k miles and I drive it every weekend, weather permitting. But alas, it was not to be and I took solace that I had at least tried.
But it turned out they weren't looking for true fans of the brand. They were just looking for publicity. I was a bit miffed when they alloted one to some pop singer from Ireland who said she'd never even driven a Ford, much less owned one. But the cherry on top was when one went to John Hennessey. Yes, THAT John Hennessey.
So, *uck 'em....and the horse they rode in on. I'll never own another Ford product. Scratch that, I'll never BUY another Ford. The 2005 GT goes to my grave.
Let's first go back to the original premise by a previous poster that stated the 2005/2006 Ford GT would be a great Daily Driver (DD) and that neither Ferrari nor Lamborghini had a car that was its equal and not even in the same league.
So my point was that I own a Ferrari 458, a Lamborghini Murcielago and a Ford GT and that my personal experience was that these three cars are, in fact, in the same league.
Further, I stated, and I quote ".....the Ford GT and the Ferrari 458 are simply easier cars to drive quickly, with higher confidence levels, for the average sports car enthusiast and driver.
Mid-engine cars simply have better balance and steer more precisely, in my opinion; and there is more to a daily-use sports car than raw horsepower numbers and straight line performance."
No where did I say, or even hint, that a street-oriented and equipped 2006 Ford GT or a Ferrari 458 Italia, were track-rat cars or that they could defeat, or post better lap times, than a track-oriented car such as the amazing Camaro ZL1 1LE, with track oriented tires, aggressive aero components and very hard suspension.
These three cars are, in my opinion, more usable and more enjoyable on the street as a DD than would be a track-tired & suspended Camaro ZL1 1LE.
You are attempting to compare apples & oranges and therefore drawing false & misleading conclusions. The discussion was about a competent, fast, great driving Daily Driver - Ford GT, Ferrari or Lamborghini and were all these cars in the same league as a DD.
The Camaro ZL1 1LE is a great track car that you can drive on the street, not an all-around great sports car that you could use as a DD. I refer you to the following article for GM's design intent for the Camaro ZL1 1LE:
"...Camaro bossman Al Oppenheiser shared an after-dinner story with us about his new Camaro ZL1 1LE, the laser-focused track-day special version of the brutal ZL1."
"...Rule number one in business is to know thy customer. As such, the Camaro team knows that track rats love nothing more than being able to make adjustments to their toys."
"...Let’s get the bad news out of the way. As a result of the decision to hard-mount the dampers to the car—and this is me being charitable—ride quality is not great. Being less kind—especially if you’re on ripped up, lumpy pavement—the ZL1 1LE’s ride flat-out sucks. It’s brutal, and over big bumps at speed, the rear end seems to run out of travel. That’s the trade-off for supercar handling everywhere else. Can you live with the car as a daily driver? Yes. Just avoid potholes like the plague."
So does the Camaro ZL1 1LE sound like a pleasant, fun to drive, truly usable Daily Driver to you?
Track oriented tires make a huge difference on any car - how many people on this forum have removed Pilot Sport Cup 2s from their Z06/Z07? It is simply not a great tire for DD, but is a fantastic, marginally streetable, tire for the track.
I stated clearly that my opinion is a mid-engine sports is easier to drive for the average sports car enthusiast and driver. I am not a Randy Probst, and I stand by that statement as every friend of mine that has driven my sports cars back-to-back all state how easy the Ferrari is drive quickly on the street and the back roads compared to my other cars. Never did I say lap times or race track.
There are many great articles and videos on the internet about sports cars, but here is one that stands out in that it summarizes my opinion and personal experience with the 458 Italia with better words than I can muster:
Randy Probst is an outstanding race car driver and knows how to distill traits of cars better than anyone I know of. Here are the relevant excerpts:
"...Angus, leaning against our bright yellow 458 Italia. “It changes everything. The rest of ’em are now playing catch-up.”
“Angus,” I said. “Have you ever driven a better car?”
“Well,” he started. “There are certain cars better suited to other situations.”
“Never mind all that,” I said. “Have you ever driven a better car?”
“No,” MacKenzie replied. “Never.”
And while numerically some contenders came close (the sticky-tired Corvette was faster around the track), digits don’t tell a story. People do, and the praise lavished on the Ferrari is basically never-ending. “It was just so much fun,” beamed Reynolds
Driver Randy Probst had so much fun, he forgot to talk during one of his laps and “had to” do an extra. He poured it on. “Steering is super accurate. The gearbox really makes those H-patterns feel like antiques. These brakes liked the heat. Yeah, the hotter I got ’em, the better they worked, and they held up just fine. An extremely well-behaved car. A real favorite of mine.” Everybody else’s, too.
There is no perfect sports car, but this might be the closest mankind has come.” From Lago: “Could you drive the 458 daily? Yes.” And even with that damn worthy praise, the 458 remains a true performance machine. If the GT3 RS is a sparring partner and the GT-R a supercomputer that happens to drive really well, the 458 is something in between. Lago also points out that if you get on the throttle at 70 mph in seventh gear, the resulting downshifts are the first three notes of a major chord. Jurnecka might have best summed up the 458. “For the first time ever, perhaps, nitpicking a Ferrari is nigh impossible.”
That’s the tricky part when talking about this mid-engine Ferrari. There aren’t any flaws. The 458 has the best seats, the best steering feel, the best engine sound. It even has the best ride. Climbing out of the Nissan and into the 458 Italia on our road loop was eye-popping. Compared with the Ferrari, the GT-R rides like a garbage truck. Everything is harsh, uncomfortable, and rackety. The 458 feels polished, cozy, almost relaxed. Angus kept noting how smartly soft the bushings were, whereas the GT3 RS and the GT-R seemed determined to knock the filling from your cannoli. The Best Driver’s Car shouldn’t beat up its driver. The Ferrari doesn’t. It cossets you, begging you to drive harder, faster, and for longer.
With the exception of the Corvette and its race-compound tires, the 458 was the fastest car around Laguna Seca. It was the second-quickest to 60 mph (3.2 seconds), and the second-fastest through the quarter mile at 11.3 seconds, just a tenth behind the GT-R and its AWD drag-racing advantage. More telling, the 458’s trap speed of 125.6 mph was nearly 5 mph faster than the Nissan’s.
Point being, a tenth here and a tick there, sure, but the two cars perform in virtually the same manner. But it’s the way the Ferrari does the deed that’s so special. It’s the fine quality of its actions, the satisfaction it gives to its pilot, and the simple sense that nothing else even comes halfway close that make the Ferrari 458 Italia the 2012 Motor Trend Best Driver’s Car. As Loh quipped, “This car’s perfect. Let’s eat.”
So, in summary I continue to believe that a modern mid-engined sports car is easy and very satisfying to drive for the average sports car enthusiast and normal driver and can easily be used as a DD, vs. a highly focused, track oriented car.
I can show you Nurbergring lap times of mid-engine cars that blow the Camaro ZL1 1LE away, but that really isn't the point is it.
Lastly, if I handed you $300K and told you that you can buy one car for use as a Daily Driver with this money (and you can't pocket any balance of $$ left over), would you buy the Camaro ZL1 1LE or would you buy a Ferrari 458 Italia, Ferrari 488 GTB, McLaren 570S, etc.?
Cheers - Dave
I think this is a great review and a very honest/realistic one at that...however...the only issue I see is calling a ANY Ferrari a daily driver. I used to own a 360, and still own a 2009 612 Scaglietti (that I bought new). While Ferrari's have definitely come a long ways in terms of reliability, they are still super expensive to maintain/service and I'd give the nod to Porsche or even GM in terms of reliability. One of the issues is that 'most' Ferrari owners never drive their cars enough to truly call them a DD, so true reliability is tough to gauge.
I don't care how much money you have (I bought my 612 Scag. new and in cash), you still think about maintenance and service costs. Esp when an OEM windshield on the 360 was $4300! The 612 Scag. lost 2nd gear at 1200 miles (for no apparent reason) and the repair cost was $17,000. Thankfully it was under warranty. BUT...what if it wasn't? I can afford it...but it's still a grip load of cash. Which is why you don't see many getting tracked compared to Porsches etc...
Depending on where you live in the USA...to have a McLaren is massively expensive to get fixed or to service simply due to the lack of dealerships.
My point is...just because someone can afford to by a $300k+ car (in cash), doesn't mean they want/enjoy $15,000 service bills when something breaks or for just 'regular' service. IF it's a true DD, then 5,000-15,000 miles a year are normal. I don't see too many Ferrari, McLaren, and Lambo owners doing that...
Lastly...I've always been a European car guy until my C7Z...owned many Porsches, BMW's, AUDI's, Ferrari's etc...but, there is NOTHING like the low end torque of the Vette. Simply WOW. Sure it doesn't sing like the V12 in the Ferrari or have that 'special' feel inside...BUT, no other car I've owned (...Maybe the '84 Ruf) has ever put a bigger smile on my face. If GM would just find a way to make a 'special edition' with a truly bad *** interior it would pretty much be the 'perfect' car.
I own a 2006 Ford GT, plus a Ferrari 458 Italia, a Lamborghini Murcielago V12, two Viper GTS and a 2015 Corvette Z06 vert.
The Ferrari 458 Italia and the Ford GT are the two best driving cars available, in my experience. Driven back-to-back they are very similar dynamically, so I do believe both cars are, in fact, in the same league.
The FGT makes more torque than the 458 Italia, but in my opinion the Ferrari 458 Italia is more controllable, has more precise steering placement and does not wag its tail as much as the FGT under heavy throttle. When hot, the Ferrari's carbon-ceramic Brembo brakes are superior brakes to the FGT as well.
Both the FGT (crank driven blower) and Ferrari 458 Italia (naturally aspirated) produce very similar horsepower numbers, just south of 600 hp, but the 458 revs to 9,000 rpm and is incomparable in exhaust note quality.
The Murcielago is no slouch in the horsepower league either with nearly 600 hp from the 6.2 liter V12, but it is a larger car physically & dimensionally, must be revved to 6,000 rpm and up, to produce lots of power.
My 2015 Z06 lays down impressive numbers, is super fun to drive and is a fantastic value but the Ford GT and the Ferrari 458 are simply easier cars to drive quickly, with higher confidence levels, for the average sports car enthusiast and driver.
Mid-engine cars simply have better balance and steer more precisely, in my opinion; and there is more to a daily-use sports car than raw horsepower numbers and straight line performance.
Cheers - Dave
Outrageously cool garage. So where is your review of how the vipers drive?
I've seen the videos of the new GT (including the piece on Jay Leno's Garage), a gorgeous car, but very much track oriented. Look at the simplicity of the interior (the pedals move to accommodate the driver not the seat--a rigid fixed seat). I'd wager that the GT is not a very practical car, and unlikely to be anyone's DD. The 'Vette is my DD (a GS with 13K miles in 13 months); the visibility, ride comfort, and interior (while not plush) are very functional and the car inspires confidence in heavy traffic.
Look at most drivers of exotics, the average mileage per year is sparse, say 500-2000 miles. I was looking at picking up a used 599 GTB as a thought experiment; those for sale were usually around 9-19k miles for a 10 year old car, with 4-7 owners over that time. You can draw your own conclusions. For me, at this stage of my life, the idea of a pricey toy is neither practical nor sensible. If I could get an exotic/supercar, it would have to be a DD; cars are meant to be driven.
As for track driving, most people, myself included, do not track their cars; I'd wager that to be true for any lucky GT owners as well. It begs the question, when someone acquires a gem like a GT, are they a bit preoccupied when they drive; can you truly enjoy the car when you own it (not a test driver who won't be on the hook for repairs if something goes pear shaped or journalists reacting to the fun factor)?
There is no rule that says pragmatism trumps fun, but in comparison, the GT is a personal fun-mobile, a marvel of engineering, a halo car for the brand. The Corvette is a workhorse that can run like a thoroughbred.
Dave...I never saw that stable of yours in your original posting...it is truly amazing, something like car heads on this site ( or any site for that matter!) will drool over. By my snapshot guess, we're looking at in excess of $1,000,000 in cars in that huge warehouse ( too big to be a garage!). It's really out of character for a person with those financial capabilities to fumble around on a car site. Just where are you located and what do you do ( or did) for a living to enjoy that type of hobby? Jay Leno would like to know, as well!
[/Quote] but, there is NOTHING like the low end torque of the Vette. Simply WOW. Sure it doesn't sing like the V12 in the Ferrari or have that 'special' feel inside...BUT, no other car I've owned (...Maybe the '84 Ruf) has ever put a bigger smile on my face. [/QUOTE]
So true, and this is what seperates the Z06 from the others. Red lining at 8000 - 9000 rpms is intoxicating, but anything below 5000 rpms is just not happening in these cars (6 - 8 cylinders in particular). So in effect the usuable fun occurs over 3 - 4000 rpms. With the Z the fun factor is over the entire 6500 rpm range!
First off, I doubt there are any owners of the new GT on this board to see your offer. Secondly, I doubt you will see many (any) owners tracking the new GT. Why? Because what happens when you wad it up? You can't just call up Ford and get another one. The selection process was your one & only chance to get one. There will be no more.
As an aside, I've been a long time Ford owner, countless Mustangs,Explorers, F-150's, a 2005 Ford GT, and my small company's fleet (9) turning over every three years for the last thirty. I thought the chances for me to obtain a new one were slim, but I still filled out the application. Ford had stated they were going to mete them out to people who promoted the brand and they wanted the new car to be seen. My 2005 GT has ~35k miles and I drive it every weekend, weather permitting. But alas, it was not to be and I took solace that I had at least tried.
But it turned out they weren't looking for true fans of the brand. They were just looking for publicity. I was a bit miffed when they alloted one to some pop singer from Ireland who said she'd never even driven a Ford, much less owned one. But the cherry on top was when one went to John Hennessey. Yes, THAT John Hennessey.
So, *uck 'em....and the horse they rode in on. I'll never own another Ford product. Scratch that, I'll never BUY another Ford. The 2005 GT goes to my grave.
Don't feel bad...my buddy got picked for the NFGT and what he did to get the car ended up being a waste of time and money. He bought a new 2005 FGT and has kept it all these years. He buys and owns nothing but Ford vehicles and buys his kids Ford vehicles. He's been to all the FGT rallies, went to all the New Ford GT races and even went back to Le Mans for the NFGT 24 hour race to hobnob with the Ford executives and racing team to prove he really wants the car. He is active on the FGT forum and drives the heck out of his FGT posting tons of videos and social media crap. In the end, all that didn't matter, it was the word from a long time Ford insider that got him the nod to get one. It really is who you know and not what you know
Ford want's the NFGT owners to drive and use their cars but they've made the car even more exclusive by giving it to people that aren't car guys, that haven't paid their dues to earn the right to buy the car. The car will probably be worth close to 1 million dollars when it is allowed to be sold by private owners....can't guarantee any other car that kind of appreciation.
The car looks epic...but for close to $500k, I think not having the new 5.2 Voodoo engine with twin turbos is a mistake. Regardless if you need the power or not, at this price point it should be pushing over 750 hp and have an exhaust note that will make Viagra unnecessary.
Just where are you located and what do you do ( or did) for a living to enjoy that type of hobby?
Give the man his privacy.
I'm just grateful he is willing to share pics.
All I want to know from him is if he needs someone to clean his garage floor on a regular basis (I work cheap ).
Yep 2 different leagues. Not many are going to daily drive there 2017 Ford GT. Any miles cost on the value of any high dollar car. Then I don't live in Hollywood so the car is out of place. I would guess this thread should be saved for ZR1 vs Ford GT. If we are doing Chevy vs Ford. that would be the only reason.
The Ford GT is in the 400,000.00 area so should be compared to cars in it's class.
The Z06 is under 100,000 yes you can load a car up or buy a package like the R and pay over a 100,000 but really the average Z is under a 100,000
So we are comparing apples and melons
The Z06 is my choice I don't mind the minor league! I can do what I want with it. I could buy a Ford GT but would never spend that much money on a car of any kind. To sit covered up!
I'll stay with the Z06 it even has it own cool forum.
So does the FGT....and I drive mine all the time. I drive my Z more, but my (white) FGT gets driven each weekend weather permitting. If I could actually get a 2017...I'd drive that too, all the time.
Beautiful cars. Just curious, does your yellow FGT truly have ZERO miles on it, or does it have Maybe a few miles like 3 or 7 etc. just curious exact mileage on the odometer...
It came from Ford to the dealer with 21 miles...all from the Ford test track. It has 21.5 now from moving it on and off the lift. All stickers, labels and plastics are still affixed to their original spots on the car, except for the delivery tape across the doors and rear clamshell, which had to be removed to open the doors.
09-01-2017, 04:54 AM
(Rail Ornament!)
).
