991 GT3 RS and C7 Z at mid-Ohio
09-11-2017, 10:36 PM
#1
991 GT3 RS and C7 Z at mid-Ohio
I was at mid ohio this past weekend for a PCA hide event. I was able to get a couple of good sessions chasing a 991 gt3 rs. My car is a stock 2017 m7 1lz with stage 1 aero on MPSS with the recommended track alignment.
first session
second session
first session
second session
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Popular Reply
09-12-2017, 11:40 AM
Burning Brakes
You can option a Z06 north of $120k. The 991.2 GT3 starts at $143k. The Z06 is a great car but nowhere near the caliber of a GT3 as a track car. Phenomenal engine, trans, adjustable suspension, true dry sump, larger fuel cell, and admiral factory warranty support all come with a GT3.
http://cc.porsche.com/icc_pcna/ccCal...fmodelstart%2f
I've never seen a $120k Z06...I've seen $112k ish...I think it's safe to say that $100k is a nicely optioned Z06, a 'nicely' optioned GT3RS is $190k. Heck, just CCB brakes are a $9,210 option, lol. Sport Chrono package, $1,850.
Other than cooling, and maybe the partial cage, I'm not sure how the GT3 RS is a better track car. In terms of trackable and streetable, the Z06 is an incredibly well balanced car. Something the GT3RS is not and for 1/2 the price. The one area the GT3 RS is far superior is resale value. I was extremely close to buying a 3.8L GT3RS...but I found it to be too raw for day to day driving on the street. The Z06 was a better balance. Let me clear, there is NOTHING wrong with a GT3RS...awesome cars...but they are more purpose built...yet they still aren't superior on a track. That's what impressed me so much about the Z06...how well rounded it is. I think it's insane we're even comparing a PURE track car (GT3RS) that is double the money to the Z06...and on top of it the GT3 isn't even as quick.
Viper ACR-E is soon to be no longer, so you need a new a $500k 675LT or $300k GT2 RS to outclass the Z06 on a track...and I'm sure the new ZR1 will take care of that too.That's INSANE. 2-3 cars (that aren't $1m) can beat a Z06 on the track. Truly ridiculous. What an accomplishment.
For me, first time Vette owner...the words above don't come easily...I've lived my entire life owning German and Italian sports cars and still do...but I can't ignore the tremendous value of the Vette. Send it to Callaway and Carravaggio and there is almost NOTHING that can compete with it on the street or track...and you'll only have $130k-$140k into it.
Sorry for the slightly off topic post...
09-11-2017, 10:44 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
Shouldnt the z06 be reeling him in better on the straights??
09-11-2017, 10:51 PM
#4
09-11-2017, 11:09 PM
#6
he gets better drive out of the corners due to better tires, cup2s, and pdk being in 2nd gear. I'm able to close some of the distance towards the end of the straight.
as mentioned, in the first video I could've passed as he did give me the point by but I didn't take it. In the second video I did take the pass.
all in all, it was in good fun
as mentioned, in the first video I could've passed as he did give me the point by but I didn't take it. In the second video I did take the pass.
all in all, it was in good fun
Last edited by Bigg Slimm; 09-11-2017 at 11:10 PM.
09-12-2017, 09:03 AM
#7
Melting Slicks
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he gets better drive out of the corners due to better tires, cup2s, and pdk being in 2nd gear. I'm able to close some of the distance towards the end of the straight.
as mentioned, in the first video I could've passed as he did give me the point by but I didn't take it. In the second video I did take the pass.
all in all, it was in good fun
as mentioned, in the first video I could've passed as he did give me the point by but I didn't take it. In the second video I did take the pass.
all in all, it was in good fun
09-12-2017, 09:27 AM
#8
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Not just better tires but a GT3 can literally power on from early to mid apex, all the way to track out. I've ridden in one around the track and the point when they can apply power would have a Z06 spinning in circles. It is really crazy to ride in one with an experienced driver, it feels like you are going to crash and is definitely a different driving style.
Probably the main reason why GM is looking at going to a rear mid engine car Vs the current front mid engine layout. The ability to put the power to the ground sooner.
Bill
09-12-2017, 09:36 AM
#9
Safety Car
The C7Z would be tracking out faster if the driver was taking advantage/utilizing PTM. For some reason he's not going to full throttle right before apex as PTM allows. He's driving as though the car is not equipped with PTM and is modulating throttle application instead of hammering it even with the car in Sport 1. Takes some getting used to but once you do it's faster. The minds self preservation leanings make it difficult to trust it but once you get past self preservation it's cool.
I say right before apex meaning just a "smiggen" before to compensate for throttle lag.
Rick
I say right before apex meaning just a "smiggen" before to compensate for throttle lag.
Rick
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09-12-2017, 09:40 AM
#11
Melting Slicks
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The C7Z would be tracking out faster if the driver was taking advantage/utilizing PTM. For some reason he's not going to full throttle right before apex as PTM allows. He's driving as though the car is not equipped with PTM and is modulating throttle application instead of hammering it even with the car in Sport 1. Takes some getting used to but once you do it's faster. The minds self preservation leanings make it difficult to trust it but once you get past self preservation it's cool.
I say right before apex meaning just a "smiggen" before to compensate for throttle lag.
Rick
I say right before apex meaning just a "smiggen" before to compensate for throttle lag.
Rick
09-12-2017, 09:51 AM
#13
The C7Z would be tracking out faster if the driver was taking advantage/utilizing PTM. For some reason he's not going to full throttle right before apex as PTM allows. He's driving as though the car is not equipped with PTM and is modulating throttle application instead of hammering it even with the car in Sport 1. Takes some getting used to but once you do it's faster. The minds self preservation leanings make it difficult to trust it but once you get past self preservation it's cool.
I say right before apex meaning just a "smiggen" before to compensate for throttle lag.
Rick
I say right before apex meaning just a "smiggen" before to compensate for throttle lag.
Rick
09-12-2017, 09:59 AM
#14
Melting Slicks
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"He's driving as though the car is not equipped with PTM and is modulating throttle application instead of hammering it even with the car in Sport 1."
Hammering on the throttle in a turn. Or relying on the PTM at all really. That just means you are not using smooth, controllable inputs and the car is trying to save you from yourself. It is a bad habit to learn and can lead to people driving well beyond their ability which may produce dangerous results, certainly if you ever drive anything else because you now think you are superman on track. While it might be faster for a novice, it is guaranteed not the fast way around a track. When I activate PTM the car is noticeably slower through a corner than when I take the same corner with little to no intervention.
Hammering on the throttle in a turn. Or relying on the PTM at all really. That just means you are not using smooth, controllable inputs and the car is trying to save you from yourself. It is a bad habit to learn and can lead to people driving well beyond their ability which may produce dangerous results, certainly if you ever drive anything else because you now think you are superman on track. While it might be faster for a novice, it is guaranteed not the fast way around a track. When I activate PTM the car is noticeably slower through a corner than when I take the same corner with little to no intervention.
Last edited by fleming23; 09-12-2017 at 10:01 AM.
09-12-2017, 10:06 AM
#15
Safety Car
I try to drive as if ptm is not on and only rely on it as a safety net. If I'm ever in a different car on the track I want to have the muscle memory of being somewhat smooth and not rely on the stability control. I don't like hearing or feeling the ptm intervene, it means I wasn't smooth or did something wrong
NOT STARTING AN ARGUMENT, just sharing thoughts. I race several purpose built race cars. If you race/drive a variety of cars it's mandatory that you are able to adjust your driving to suit the car. One of the race cars is a ASA LS1 powered stock car which doesn't have ABS, is a dog box transmission so manual rev matching is a necessity, no active handling, solid rear axle, etc.
Another car is a purpose built 911T AWD with ABS, stability control, active suspension, etc. A completely differrent machine from a drivers perspective. Must be driven in a totally different manner than the other 2 I mentioned.
I'm able to get in any of the cars I race/drive and run within 1/10 of a second of my expected lap times. Flexibilty/versatility is not an option, it's a requirement if you're going to be competetive in different machines.
FWIW....
Rick
09-12-2017, 10:14 AM
#16
Banned Scam/Spammer
The GT3 costs twice as much as the Z06 and judging from these videos is an extremely poor value as a track machine.
09-12-2017, 10:15 AM
#17
Safety Car
"He's driving as though the car is not equipped with PTM and is modulating throttle application instead of hammering it even with the car in Sport 1."
Hammering on the throttle in a turn. Or relying on the PTM at all really. That just means you are not using smooth, controllable inputs and the car is trying to save you from yourself. It is a bad habit to learn and can lead to people driving well beyond their ability which may produce dangerous results, certainly if you ever drive anything else because you now think you are superman on track. While it might be faster for a novice, it is guaranteed not the fast way around a track. When I activate PTM the car is noticeably slower through a corner than when I take the same corner with little to no intervention.
Hammering on the throttle in a turn. Or relying on the PTM at all really. That just means you are not using smooth, controllable inputs and the car is trying to save you from yourself. It is a bad habit to learn and can lead to people driving well beyond their ability which may produce dangerous results, certainly if you ever drive anything else because you now think you are superman on track. While it might be faster for a novice, it is guaranteed not the fast way around a track. When I activate PTM the car is noticeably slower through a corner than when I take the same corner with little to no intervention.
I disagree that PTM is slower. Tommy Milner proved the car is faster utilizing PTM, at least with him driving and he's a decent driver. I'm sure you've seen the video where he demonstrates he can't beat PTM? I know I'm faster when I take advantage of PTM as I've done significant testing with and without. My results are the same as Milner's. I've had a number of conversations with Randy Pobst and Mike Levitas about PTM. They are both good, versatile drivers and are faster using PTM in either the C7 or the 5th gen Camaro.
Last edited by rikhek; 09-12-2017 at 10:17 AM.
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09-12-2017, 10:22 AM
#18
Le Mans Master
The race car uses it!
Good post. I agree for the most part especially for guys just getting started or who don't really care about picking up that last 10th. My above post pretty much supports your comments.
I disagree that PTM is slower. Tommy Milner proved the car is faster utilizing PTM, at least with him driving and he's a decent driver. I'm sure you've seen the video where he demonstrates he can't beat PTM? I know I'm faster when I take advantage of PTM as I've done significant testing with and without. My results are the same as Milner's. I've had a number of conversations with Randy Pobst and Mike Levitas about PTM. They are both faster using PTM in either the C7 or the 5th gen Camaro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9RVZkjZkek
I disagree that PTM is slower. Tommy Milner proved the car is faster utilizing PTM, at least with him driving and he's a decent driver. I'm sure you've seen the video where he demonstrates he can't beat PTM? I know I'm faster when I take advantage of PTM as I've done significant testing with and without. My results are the same as Milner's. I've had a number of conversations with Randy Pobst and Mike Levitas about PTM. They are both faster using PTM in either the C7 or the 5th gen Camaro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9RVZkjZkek
Better and Better! She's not getting more HP without more of it!
And leaving YOU:
09-12-2017, 10:24 AM
#19
Safety Car
I could make the same statement using your same words regarding any number of cars which turn similar lap times:
The McLaren/Ferrari/Lambo/Ford/etc. costs X times as much as the GT3 and judging from videos is an extremely poor value as a track machine.
Value is in the eye, or wallet of the beholder...
09-12-2017, 10:41 AM
#20
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Good post. I agree for the most part especially for guys just getting started or who don't really care about picking up that last 10th. My above post pretty much supports your comments.
I disagree that PTM is slower. Tommy Milner proved the car is faster utilizing PTM, at least with him driving and he's a decent driver. I'm sure you've seen the video where he demonstrates he can't beat PTM? I know I'm faster when I take advantage of PTM as I've done significant testing with and without. My results are the same as Milner's. I've had a number of conversations with Randy Pobst and Mike Levitas about PTM. They are both good, versatile drivers and are faster using PTM in either the C7 or the 5th gen Camaro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9RVZkjZkek
I disagree that PTM is slower. Tommy Milner proved the car is faster utilizing PTM, at least with him driving and he's a decent driver. I'm sure you've seen the video where he demonstrates he can't beat PTM? I know I'm faster when I take advantage of PTM as I've done significant testing with and without. My results are the same as Milner's. I've had a number of conversations with Randy Pobst and Mike Levitas about PTM. They are both good, versatile drivers and are faster using PTM in either the C7 or the 5th gen Camaro.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9RVZkjZkek
I am making more use of it as I get used to the car but have found once it starts operating that adding more throttle usually makes the back end start to step out which causes me to back off a smidgen. Maybe if I did go wide open the back end would only step out a little and I would get a little better speed out of the corner but I don't trust it enough to try and find out how far it will let the rear step out.
I did an autocross on a go kart track last year where I never ran above low gear. I was heavily into PTM coming out of every corner and the car was snapping around the course. I set FTD by close to a second over the normally fast guys that have been running that course for the last 15 years or more. Even while PTM was operating I modulated the throttle when I felt the back end stepping out too much.
Bill