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991 GT3 RS and C7 Z at mid-Ohio

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Old 09-11-2017, 10:36 PM   #1
Bigg Slimm
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Default 991 GT3 RS and C7 Z at mid-Ohio

I was at mid ohio this past weekend for a PCA hide event. I was able to get a couple of good sessions chasing a 991 gt3 rs. My car is a stock 2017 m7 1lz with stage 1 aero on MPSS with the recommended track alignment.

first session

second session
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:44 PM   #2
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Shouldnt the z06 be reeling him in better on the straights??
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:45 PM   #3
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Awesome vidoes. Looks liked you could have passed if you wanted to at times.
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:51 PM   #4
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Shouldnt the z06 be reeling him in better on the straights??
It's just as fast in a quarter mile as a stock Z and they weigh 400-500 lbs less. And with almost 500 hp, it's no surprise its that fast in a straight line. Also, it could have some mods for added power.
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Old 09-11-2017, 10:54 PM   #5
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Fun to watch.
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Old 09-11-2017, 11:09 PM   #6
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Shouldnt the z06 be reeling him in better on the straights??
he gets better drive out of the corners due to better tires, cup2s, and pdk being in 2nd gear. I'm able to close some of the distance towards the end of the straight.

as mentioned, in the first video I could've passed as he did give me the point by but I didn't take it. In the second video I did take the pass.

all in all, it was in good fun

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Old 09-12-2017, 09:03 AM   #7
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he gets better drive out of the corners due to better tires, cup2s, and pdk being in 2nd gear. I'm able to close some of the distance towards the end of the straight.

as mentioned, in the first video I could've passed as he did give me the point by but I didn't take it. In the second video I did take the pass.

all in all, it was in good fun
Not just better tires but a GT3 can literally power on from early to mid apex, all the way to track out. I've ridden in one around the track and the point when they can apply power would have a Z06 spinning in circles. It is really crazy to ride in one with an experienced driver, it feels like you are going to crash and is definitely a different driving style.
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:27 AM   #8
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Shouldnt the z06 be reeling him in better on the straights??
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Originally Posted by fleming23 View Post
Not just better tires but a GT3 can literally power on from early to mid apex, all the way to track out. I've ridden in one around the track and the point when they can apply power would have a Z06 spinning in circles. It is really crazy to ride in one with an experienced driver, it feels like you are going to crash and is definitely a different driving style.
Being able to get on the power sooner permits them to gain a slight speed advantage as they enter the straight. At that point it is a drag race and like most drag races it is won or lost at the starting line. Give an equal performance vehicle a 1 or 2 mph rolling start at the starting line and it is almost impossible to catch up unless they screw up somewhere. Add in better tires and you are truly dead meat. PTM helps by maintaining rear grip but there is only so much you can do when the other guy has the laws of physics on his side.

Probably the main reason why GM is looking at going to a rear mid engine car Vs the current front mid engine layout. The ability to put the power to the ground sooner.

Bill
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:36 AM   #9
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The C7Z would be tracking out faster if the driver was taking advantage/utilizing PTM. For some reason he's not going to full throttle right before apex as PTM allows. He's driving as though the car is not equipped with PTM and is modulating throttle application instead of hammering it even with the car in Sport 1. Takes some getting used to but once you do it's faster. The minds self preservation leanings make it difficult to trust it but once you get past self preservation it's cool.

I say right before apex meaning just a "smiggen" before to compensate for throttle lag.

Rick
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:39 AM   #10
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It's twitchy!
The new GT3 is Faster!
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:40 AM   #11
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The C7Z would be tracking out faster if the driver was taking advantage/utilizing PTM. For some reason he's not going to full throttle right before apex as PTM allows. He's driving as though the car is not equipped with PTM and is modulating throttle application instead of hammering it even with the car in Sport 1. Takes some getting used to but once you do it's faster. The minds self preservation leanings make it difficult to trust it but once you get past self preservation it's cool.

I say right before apex meaning just a "smiggen" before to compensate for throttle lag.

Rick
That is really a bad habit to learn....
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:44 AM   #12
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What's a bad habit? Utilizing PTM or compensating for throttle lag?
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:51 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rikhek View Post
The C7Z would be tracking out faster if the driver was taking advantage/utilizing PTM. For some reason he's not going to full throttle right before apex as PTM allows. He's driving as though the car is not equipped with PTM and is modulating throttle application instead of hammering it even with the car in Sport 1. Takes some getting used to but once you do it's faster. The minds self preservation leanings make it difficult to trust it but once you get past self preservation it's cool.

I say right before apex meaning just a "smiggen" before to compensate for throttle lag.

Rick
I try to drive as if ptm is not on and only rely on it as a safety net. If I'm ever in a different car on the track I want to have the muscle memory of being somewhat smooth and not rely on the stability control. I don't like hearing or feeling the ptm intervene, it means I wasn't smooth or did something wrong
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Old 09-12-2017, 09:59 AM   #14
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"He's driving as though the car is not equipped with PTM and is modulating throttle application instead of hammering it even with the car in Sport 1."

Hammering on the throttle in a turn. Or relying on the PTM at all really. That just means you are not using smooth, controllable inputs and the car is trying to save you from yourself. It is a bad habit to learn and can lead to people driving well beyond their ability which may produce dangerous results, certainly if you ever drive anything else because you now think you are superman on track. While it might be faster for a novice, it is guaranteed not the fast way around a track. When I activate PTM the car is noticeably slower through a corner than when I take the same corner with little to no intervention.

Last edited by fleming23; 09-12-2017 at 10:01 AM.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:06 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by Bigg Slimm View Post
I try to drive as if ptm is not on and only rely on it as a safety net. If I'm ever in a different car on the track I want to have the muscle memory of being somewhat smooth and not rely on the stability control. I don't like hearing or feeling the ptm intervene, it means I wasn't smooth or did something wrong
Understand, but you're leaving a lot of time on the table. FWIW, I liken not using PTM to not utilizing ABS to achieve maximum threshold braking. It's a tool that comes equipped with the car and it makes the car faster. As such, I use it. Same with auto blip in a M7. I paid for it so I'm going to use it.

NOT STARTING AN ARGUMENT, just sharing thoughts. I race several purpose built race cars. If you race/drive a variety of cars it's mandatory that you are able to adjust your driving to suit the car. One of the race cars is a ASA LS1 powered stock car which doesn't have ABS, is a dog box transmission so manual rev matching is a necessity, no active handling, solid rear axle, etc.

Another car is a purpose built 911T AWD with ABS, stability control, active suspension, etc. A completely differrent machine from a drivers perspective. Must be driven in a totally different manner than the other 2 I mentioned.

I'm able to get in any of the cars I race/drive and run within 1/10 of a second of my expected lap times. Flexibilty/versatility is not an option, it's a requirement if you're going to be competetive in different machines.

FWIW....

Rick
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:14 AM   #16
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The GT3 costs twice as much as the Z06 and judging from these videos is an extremely poor value as a track machine.
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:15 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by fleming23 View Post
"He's driving as though the car is not equipped with PTM and is modulating throttle application instead of hammering it even with the car in Sport 1."

Hammering on the throttle in a turn. Or relying on the PTM at all really. That just means you are not using smooth, controllable inputs and the car is trying to save you from yourself. It is a bad habit to learn and can lead to people driving well beyond their ability which may produce dangerous results, certainly if you ever drive anything else because you now think you are superman on track. While it might be faster for a novice, it is guaranteed not the fast way around a track. When I activate PTM the car is noticeably slower through a corner than when I take the same corner with little to no intervention.
Good post. I agree for the most part especially for guys just getting started or who don't really care about picking up that last 10th. My above post pretty much supports your comments.

I disagree that PTM is slower. Tommy Milner proved the car is faster utilizing PTM, at least with him driving and he's a decent driver. I'm sure you've seen the video where he demonstrates he can't beat PTM? I know I'm faster when I take advantage of PTM as I've done significant testing with and without. My results are the same as Milner's. I've had a number of conversations with Randy Pobst and Mike Levitas about PTM. They are both good, versatile drivers and are faster using PTM in either the C7 or the 5th gen Camaro.


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Old 09-12-2017, 10:22 AM   #18
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Good post. I agree for the most part especially for guys just getting started or who don't really care about picking up that last 10th. My above post pretty much supports your comments.

I disagree that PTM is slower. Tommy Milner proved the car is faster utilizing PTM, at least with him driving and he's a decent driver. I'm sure you've seen the video where he demonstrates he can't beat PTM? I know I'm faster when I take advantage of PTM as I've done significant testing with and without. My results are the same as Milner's. I've had a number of conversations with Randy Pobst and Mike Levitas about PTM. They are both faster using PTM in either the C7 or the 5th gen Camaro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9RVZkjZkek
Mero used it at The Ring! AWD AWS counterpart!
Better and Better! She's not getting more HP without more of it!

And leaving YOU:

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Old 09-12-2017, 10:24 AM   #19
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The GT3 costs twice as much as the Z06 and judging from these videos is an extremely poor value as a track machine.
I'm not sure of the point you're trying to make.

I could make the same statement using your same words regarding any number of cars which turn similar lap times:

The McLaren/Ferrari/Lambo/Ford/etc. costs X times as much as the GT3 and judging from videos is an extremely poor value as a track machine.

Value is in the eye, or wallet of the beholder...
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Old 09-12-2017, 10:41 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rikhek View Post
Good post. I agree for the most part especially for guys just getting started or who don't really care about picking up that last 10th. My above post pretty much supports your comments.

I disagree that PTM is slower. Tommy Milner proved the car is faster utilizing PTM, at least with him driving and he's a decent driver. I'm sure you've seen the video where he demonstrates he can't beat PTM? I know I'm faster when I take advantage of PTM as I've done significant testing with and without. My results are the same as Milner's. I've had a number of conversations with Randy Pobst and Mike Levitas about PTM. They are both good, versatile drivers and are faster using PTM in either the C7 or the 5th gen Camaro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e9RVZkjZkek
I have been trying to use more of the PTM feature. However, it takes a while to get used to doing what you taught yourself not to do. It isn't about slamming on the throttle it is about going wide open which is a difference in how far the throttle is opened Vs how fast it is opened.

I am making more use of it as I get used to the car but have found once it starts operating that adding more throttle usually makes the back end start to step out which causes me to back off a smidgen. Maybe if I did go wide open the back end would only step out a little and I would get a little better speed out of the corner but I don't trust it enough to try and find out how far it will let the rear step out.

I did an autocross on a go kart track last year where I never ran above low gear. I was heavily into PTM coming out of every corner and the car was snapping around the course. I set FTD by close to a second over the normally fast guys that have been running that course for the last 15 years or more. Even while PTM was operating I modulated the throttle when I felt the back end stepping out too much.

Bill
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