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I took delivery of my 2017 Z07 in late July and discovered that these tires absolutely need to be at a certain temperature before they can perform at a high level. ( more so than p zeros and mpss) The problem I'm experiencing is that until I can go to the track next year, I'm doing most of my spirited driving in the mountains, where the temperatures can vary by as much as 20 degrees. So if its 85% in Denver, it can be 65% in the mountains. In a recent drive with some friends I started out at 30% on all four tires and after an hour they were at 32%. At this tire temperature level I could not get a feel for the tires which made driving through corners at speed a bit of a pucker. At what temperature do these tires start to stick? Looking at tires available for the Z I see we have very limited choices. I'm thinking about the Continental Extreme Contacts for an every day tire, and hoping they get to temperature much more quickly, and that they communicate to the driver when going through corners at speed. Thanks in advance.
I took delivery of my 2017 Z07 in late July and discovered that these tires absolutely need to be at a certain temperature before they can perform at a high level. ( more so than p zeros and mpss) The problem I'm experiencing is that until I can go to the track next year, I'm doing most of my spirited driving in the mountains, where the temperatures can vary by as much as 20 degrees. So if its 85% in Denver, it can be 65% in the mountains. In a recent drive with some friends I started out at 30% on all four tires and after an hour they were at 32%. At this tire temperature level I could not get a feel for the tires which made driving through corners at speed a bit of a pucker. At what temperature do these tires start to stick? Looking at tires available for the Z I see we have very limited choices. I'm thinking about the Continental Extreme Contacts for an every day tire, and hoping they get to temperature much more quickly, and that they communicate to the driver when going through corners at speed. Thanks in advance.
Once the DIC shows the tyres as being ‘warm’, you’ll be fine at 65dF with the SC2s. Drop the cold pressure to 28psi for the street would be my recommendation btw, as it will increase compliance and handling. And start at 26 psi on the track. The SC2 will far outperform a purely road tyre such as the Conti, but it won’t be as ‘comfortable’; last as long or have the traction in poor weather conditions such as rain and cold.
Tire Operating Temp is 165 to 200 degrees with 190 being about optimal for max grip. If you are driving on a highway in 65 degree temps with speeds below 100 mph the tires will be like most tires and running about 130 to 135 degrees. They will still stick well but not to their optimal level. Were you feeling the front tires slipping in corners? The other thing you need to do to get max grip is to have the camber set correctly. The -1.0 to -1.2 degrees street camber delivered from the factory probably isn't sufficient.
Tire Operating Temp is 165 to 200 degrees with 190 being about optimal for max grip. If you are driving on a highway in 65 degree temps with speeds below 100 mph the tires will be like most tires and running about 130 to 135 degrees. They will still stick well but not to their optimal level. Were you feeling the front tires slipping in corners? The other thing you need to do to get max grip is to have the camber set correctly. The -1.0 to -1.2 degrees street camber delivered from the factory probably isn't sufficient.
Bill
I wonder what the conversion is for temperature to tire pressure - I'll see if I can get an answer. To answer your question I did under steer into a very tight right hand corner, probably about 100 degrees. This actually happened twice on 2 separate corners. The first time, the car under steered and it felt like a large hand reached down and gently corrected the steering input - dynamic stability control. The second time, the car simply under steered with zero correction from dynamic stability control and I made the correction myself. There could have been some sand, and pebbles in the corner since that's where it tends to accumulate, but I can't be certain since I was caught off guard. I do know about the DSC controller, and the adjustable rear camber, but I wanted to familiarize myself with the car as is before investing in the DSC.
79 degree day overcast on a slightly damp track in spots, about lap 4 the tires felt good to me. starting tire pressure was around 27 front 28 rear if I remember correctly I have it documented at home. First time I have tracked this car or the sport cup 2, the tires impressed me. They are not A6 Hoosiers but pretty dang good.
In a recent drive with some friends I started out at 30% on all four tires and after an hour they were at 32%. At this tire temperature level I could not get a feel for the tires which made driving through corners at speed a bit of a pucker.
This is directly from the Tire Rack concerning all Track & Competition DOT performance Tires.
It is not recommended to drive on these types of tires at temperatures below 40 degrees F (5 degrees C).
It is recommended these types of tires be removed from the vehicle and stored indoors at temperatures maintained at above 32 degrees F (0 degrees C) when not in use.
Tires accidentally exposed to temperatures of 32 degrees F (0 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 70 degrees F (21 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels, or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.
I took delivery of my 2017 Z07 in late July and discovered that these tires absolutely need to be at a certain temperature before they can perform at a high level. ( more so than p zeros and mpss) The problem I'm experiencing is that until I can go to the track next year, I'm doing most of my spirited driving in the mountains, where the temperatures can vary by as much as 20 degrees. So if its 85% in Denver, it can be 65% in the mountains. In a recent drive with some friends I started out at 30% on all four tires and after an hour they were at 32%. At this tire temperature level I could not get a feel for the tires which made driving through corners at speed a bit of a pucker. At what temperature do these tires start to stick? Looking at tires available for the Z I see we have very limited choices. I'm thinking about the Continental Extreme Contacts for an every day tire, and hoping they get to temperature much more quickly, and that they communicate to the driver when going through corners at speed. Thanks in advance.
I believe there is a high risk of the OEM Z06 tires cracking as the temperature outside gets below 20. I think there is also a bulletin for dealers to not move the cars on the lot including test drives below 20. I'd recommend Michelin Alpin PA4s. They are a new tire (not run flat) that is OEM size. In fact, its the only non summer tire that is OEM size.
Thanks for posting the details Beretta. I see the connection between tire pressure, and tire temperature.
You must have been running with ‘Rob’ over on Rennlist.
Make sure you get a highly qualified alignment shop to install at the very least, the DSC ‘Street’ settings on the car. Personally I’ve been running the DSC ‘Track’ settings and along with the DSC controller, the car handles like it’s on rails. Just don’t try and re-write the laws of physics.
Bish
Last edited by thebishman; 11-16-2017 at 08:05 PM.
You must have been running with ‘Rob’ over on Rennlist.
Make sure you get a highly qualified alignment shop to install at the very least, the DSC ‘Street’ settings on the car. Personally I’ve been running the DSC ‘Track’ settings and along with the DSC controller, the car handles like it’s on rails. Just don’t try and re-write the laws of physics.
Bish
Bish, not sure if you were addressing me or the OP.
I was running with NASA Mid South at Memphis International, we do track alignments at my shop. I set the car up to DSC recommended settings (Street specs because I drive my car a lot on the street) when I called to order the DSC controller they told me the current batch had about a 30% failure rate, they were going to take care of it obviously if I got a bad one. I just didn't want to go through the hassle in case I did get a bad one. I am going to check back and get one with their next batch. They are a standup company for telling me that up front.
I was very impressed with this car, first time I have had this particular car on the Road Course. I can't wait to try the DSC controller next year. I have hundreds of laps at this track when I ran a C5Z06 there in ST2. This car on my best lap was actually almost 3 seconds faster a lap than my old ST2 car, but of course it has almost twice as much horsepower.
Michelin stated the tire pressures rise 0.7psi for every 10F of tire temp. This seems pretty close to reality. If you start around 26psi, you’ll be at 34-35 psi by the end of the session and the PDR has tire temps around 200F at that point.
Last edited by spearfish25; 11-16-2017 at 10:02 PM.
You must have been running with ‘Rob’ over on Rennlist.
Make sure you get a highly qualified alignment shop to install at the very least, the DSC ‘Street’ settings on the car. Personally I’ve been running the DSC ‘Track’ settings and along with the DSC controller, the car handles like it’s on rails. Just don’t try and re-write the laws of physics.
Bish
Yes I have been running with Rob, Sean (purple RS) , and a few others. How did you know? Yes I realize it could be a challenge, but my dealer claims they have the knowledge, and experience. It was a prerequisite of mine before purchasing from them. We'll see......
I believe there is a high risk of the OEM Z06 tires cracking as the temperature outside gets below 20. I think there is also a bulletin for dealers to not move the cars on the lot including test drives below 20. I'd recommend Michelin Alpin PA4s. They are a new tire (not run flat) that is OEM size. In fact, its the only non summer tire that is OEM size.
Michelin has a warning about operating, moving and storing Cup2 tires in temps around 20 degrees or lower due to the danger of the tread cracking. I haven't seen any such warning applied to the PSS tires.
I have operated Cup2 tires at temps in the upper 20s with no issues. You can drive the car as you would drive any other car and there is no issue with traction. The day I took delivery of my Z07 it was pouring rain with night time temps in the low 40s and I drove the car 167 miles to get home. Not a single misstep or loss of traction along the way even at 75 mph speeds.
Bish, not sure if you were addressing me or the OP.
I was running with NASA Mid South at Memphis International, we do track alignments at my shop. I set the car up to DSC recommended settings (Street specs because I drive my car a lot on the street) when I called to order the DSC controller they told me the current batch had about a 30% failure rate, they were going to take care of it obviously if I got a bad one. I just didn't want to go through the hassle in case I did get a bad one. I am going to check back and get one with their next batch. They are a standup company for telling me that up front.
I was very impressed with this car, first time I have had this particular car on the Road Course. I can't wait to try the DSC controller next year. I have hundreds of laps at this track when I ran a C5Z06 there in ST2. This car on my best lap was actually almost 3 seconds faster a lap than my old ST2 car, but of course it has almost twice as much horsepower.
My reply was to the OP. Sorry if I threw you off there.
Glad you’re liking the car. I have a ‘used’ DSC V2 that I just took off my 2015 if you’re interested. Worked perfectly, and supposedly works with all 2015 thru’ 2017 Z’s. It’s the software on the 2018s that are still causing an issue. I’d let it go for $900. PM me if you’d like more info.
Yes I have been running with Rob, Sean (purple RS) , and a few others. How did you know? Yes I realize it could be a challenge, but my dealer claims they have the knowledge, and experience. It was a prerequisite of mine before purchasing from them. We'll see......
Rob made a post on Rennline about you not being happy with the handling of the car.
Be suspicious of an alignment from your dealer unless you know for sure that they are highly competent AND know how to correctly set the rear caster which is critical. Again I’d find the best independent ‘race’ shop and ask them to do the alignment. Guys in the local PCA club should have some recommendations.
Rob made a post on Rennline about you not being happy with the handling of the car.
Be suspicious of an alignment from your dealer unless you know for sure that they are highly competent AND know how to correctly set the rear caster which is critical. Again I’d find the best independent ‘race’ shop and ask them to do the alignment. Guys in the local PCA club should have some recommendations.
Good luck,
Bish
Good advice! I don't recall saying that I didn't like the handling, but I can assert that it didn't inspire confidence. There could be many reasons for that, and I believe that my unfamiliarity with the car had as much to do with it as anything else. It drives completely different than my Porsche, and this was my first time driving the car at speed. I had just gone past the 1000 mile threshold. I have a lot to learn about the handling characteristics of the car, and the only safe place is going to be the track. Incidently, how will adjusting the rear caster effect under steer? I guess the first thing for me to do is to have the alignment checked.
Tire Operating Temp is 165 to 200 degrees with 190 being about optimal for max grip. If you are driving on a highway in 65 degree temps with speeds below 100 mph the tires will be like most tires and running about 130 to 135 degrees. They will still stick well but not to their optimal level. Were you feeling the front tires slipping in corners? The other thing you need to do to get max grip is to have the camber set correctly. The -1.0 to -1.2 degrees street camber delivered from the factory probably isn't sufficient.
Bill
Interesting on tire temp.
Here's the data from my PB with the Audi Club at VIR earlier this month.
Note the rear temps being significantly cooler than the front, yet pressures being near ideal I believe (36 PSI hot).
Not sure how to raise tires temps.
Suggestions?
I think ambient was in the mid 50's to low 60's IIRC.
Good advice! I don't recall saying that I didn't like the handling, but I can assert that it didn't inspire confidence. There could be many reasons for that, and I believe that my unfamiliarity with the car had as much to do with it as anything else. It drives completely different than my Porsche, and this was my first time driving the car at speed. I had just gone past the 1000 mile threshold. I have a lot to learn about the handling characteristics of the car, and the only safe place is going to be the track. Incidently, how will adjusting the rear caster effect under steer? I guess the first thing for me to do is to have the alignment checked.
The rear caster is necessary to keep the rear of the car planted under throttle; makes a huge difference. If you were experiencing understeer you must get the alignment checked as they are poorly calibrated at the factory. Once aligned by someone who knows what they’re doing the handling is sublime. A revelation on track and if you’ve done a decent amount of performance driving you’ll be amazed at how difficult it is to unsettle the car. Just remember not to use the throttle as an on/off switch and you’ll love it. The car will destroy GT3s on track btw.
Btw I always set cold street psi at 28 as it helps the compliance, and on track start at 25/26 psi all around.
Bish
Last edited by thebishman; 11-19-2017 at 12:56 PM.
Here's the data from my PB with the Audi Club at VIR earlier this month.
Note the rear temps being significantly cooler than the front, yet pressures being near ideal I believe (36 PSI hot).
Not sure how to raise tires temps.
Suggestions?
I think ambient was in the mid 50's to low 60's IIRC.
I was under the impression the recommended hot pressure for the Cup2 is 32 psi.
Temperature and pressure interact with each other. Raise cold pressure and the tire runs cooler thus pressures don't increase as much as the tire warms. Lower cold pressure and the tire runs hotter due to increased flexing while the pressure increases faster due to the higher air temps inside the tire.
The lower the pressure the hotter the tire runs up to the point it gets so hot it fails due to temperature. That is why the tire manufacturers tell you to increase air pressure up to the max shown on the sidewall for tires that are going to run at extreme speeds for long periods of time. If the cold pressure is too low the tire will get too hot.
11-15-2017, 05:11 PM
Michelin Cup 2 tires
