When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Best brake solution for Z06/Z07 (track use) is.... Z06 brakes?
2 OEM flavors: C7 Z06 comes with two brake solutions: 14.6" (front) regular Z06 brakes, and 15,5: CCM brakes that come with J57 and/or Z07 options. It has been well established that the CCM brakes are not great for track use due to their very expensive replacement cost, and much reduced life at track (compared to street driving). As such, many members here switch to AP racing and similar brake kits. I can easily see the rationale, since such kits provide much cheaper replacement costs for rotors and pads, and they have to have as much braking power, if not much better, since they are just as big at 390mm. Now, what makes me wonder is that the reason why CCM brakes are at 15.5" is more due to the fact that CCM rotors do not conduct heat as well as iron rotors, and as such, would need bigger rotors to cool down efficiently. Combined with the fact that it is low weight cost to enlarge the diameter, CCM rotors are usually massive, and limited more by the wheel/packaging concerns. etc.
BBKs: Now going back, 390mm big brake kits are actually very heavy, and they negate the huge advantage of Z07 cars, which is much lighter unsprung and rotating weight, for about 10 lbs/corner. BBKs not only delete that advantage, they even add weight over even regular Z06 brakes. Now, I'm sure people would argue that these nice BBKs have trick calipers that are much lighter, very true, but this cannot even come close to adding a large diameter un-sprung AND rotating weight, which is the worst kind to add to a car.
When we go back to regular Z06 brakes: these are almost identical brakes to the last gen 580 HP, 4000 lbs ZL1's brakes. On that car, the rotors were directional, but also much beefier and heavier at 27 lbs each, but on Z06, they are unidirectional (just pillars) 23.5 lbs rotors. It's nice that they're lighter, but not having directional vanes means significantly diminished cooling features. Thankfully, we do have a solution to this with aftermarket 2-piece rotors, which are all directional, and are cheap enough for future ring replacements. The Girodisc I've used is 22.5 lbs, ~1 lbs lighter up front per corner, but a massive 8.1 lbs lighter at the rear per corner, due to having an aluminum hat vs. steel OEM hat (GM wants our hand brakes to survive a Tokyo drift). As such, the rears actually match the overall weight savings of Z07 brakes, if not more, if you add in the lighter calipers and pads.
My conclusion: Instead of trying to match the CCM rotor size with the steel replacement BBKs that cannot avoid much heavier rotating mass, why not go with much-cheaper and easy to maintain Z06 brakes? It is a bit handicapped by the inferior rotors in bone-stock form, but it's trivial to combine it with aftermarket rotors that not only bring the weights much closer to Z07, but also provide much better cooling with their directional rotors. As explained here, the parts are also pretty cheap to gather. Even if not, I think we should also consider the option of aftermarket BBKs that are smaller than CCM brakes.
Better to just buy the AP Racing kit, saves weight, bigger pads, lower cost replacement than girodiscs.I have one for sale too how funny haha.
If you read carefully, I'm not talking about Z07 CCM size Girodisc rotors that weigh 28 lbs due to sheer size of annulus, but rather regular Z06 size rotors that weigh 22.5 lbs or so, which should be very similar to AP kit's 372mm version. The only weight difference with the AP kit would actually be the caliper weights, not rotor weights, but that's not as important as the rotating mass. In other words, even though AP kits are claimed to be very close to Z07 brakes in weight, in reality, you're trading caliper mass with more problematic rotating mass.
In short, regular Z06 brakes with aftermarket 2-piece rotors are very similar to $$$ BBKs in rotating mass, and they just have heavier calipers. Regarding replacement cost, Z06 Girodisc rings are $375 each, same as AP. I don't know how much RB rings cost.
I agree with most of what you are stating. However, I chose to use the Essex AP kit with the 372 mm rotors and CP9668 Calipers since that was the largest available at the time. Those rotors are a little wider than the stock iron rotors (34mm to 33mm for stock) and the calipers hold 25 mm thick pads. From the Essex Web Site here are a few notes:
Weighs only 3 lbs. more per corner vs. the optional OEM Z07 Carbon Ceramic brake package
Saves 12 unsprung lbs. from nose vs. standard iron C7 Z06 OEM brakes
Yes, the rotational mass difference between the AP rotor and the stock rotor isn't mentioned but I suspect the APs may be a little lighter. The rotational mass is far heavier than the ceramic brakes but you are not going to match that no matter which way you go. With aftermarket replacement two piece rotors you may be able to reduce rotating weight enough to be competitive to the AP rotating weight but that is just guessing on my part. I think replacement costs on aftermarket two piece rotors that work with the stock Z06 calipers will run you about the same amount as the replacement costs for the the AP rotors.
A set of AP replacement rotors/hats is going to run you about $1250 for a pair while a set of replacement rotor rings will run about half that.
Then of course you have the rear of the car to consider. The AP Kit cost is roughly equal to the cost of replacing the stock ceramic rotors and pads.
What you get for the extra money you pay for the AP Calipers in the front is a better caliper design that cools better than the Brembo caliper's, the extra pad thickness which results in less money spent on pads and less time spent on replacing pads. If you are into heavy duty track use the AP kit will pay for itself in a short time due to lower consumable expenses. The other advantage is the kits will still have some market value when you decide to change cars and the kits don't fit the new car. In the rear you could get by with the stock Z06 iron brake setup as pad thicknesses are about the same. In fact, Essex used to recommend that people swap their rear ceramic brakes to the standard iron brake setup with an aftermarket rotor when they didn't sell a rear kit.
Hey guys,
I know this is an old thread, but i am at the same cross roads. I currently have Z07 CCBs and i plan to track the car, not a complete track car, but more like 5 track days a season. All my research points to CCBs being expensive to run. So my other options are
A. Girodisc CCB replacement rotors
B. Stock Z06 full brake kit
C. AP racing big brake kit.
D. Stock Z06 steel caliper with girodisc or other lighter rotors?
I sat and collected some numbers on the weights and cost for the first 3 options. This data is from different sources, so there will be some minor discrepancy here and there.
Btw, i will be holding on to the stock CCB set up, which i plan to re-install if i stop tracking or when i sell the car.
Having said that, looks like going to a Z06 steel set up is probably my ideal option, as in, its a good tradeoff between performance and cost. I get the fact that the AP racing kit is kickass, but so is the cost. I get the fact that running cost is lower, but so is it on the stock set up... replacement rotors are same cost as the rings for AP racing rotors.
Also, once i am doing using the Z06 stock set up, i might be able to recoup atleast 1000-1200 by selling all 4 calipers, right? So that should bring down my total investment for plan B to about 2500.
I've found OEM iron rotors are better for track work than Girodisc. Been there, done that. I ran a set of Giro's on the front after my OEM's were trashed from track usage and track pads. Girodisc offered NO improved braking and substantially less longevity. I'm back to running OEM iron rotors. Rock Auto has them for MUCH less than Giro's. I keep a spare set on hand so I don't ruin a track day if one cracks midway through a day.
I've actually got a set of brand new, in the box REAR Giro's I'd like to sell. They've never been mounted.
I'll also add I've found the OEM iron rotor brakes to be the ONLY Corvette brakes I've ever had that are capable of track work. I've had a C5, C6Z and two C7Z's and the C7's are fabulous running slicks, race pads and SRF. I can run entire tanks of fuel (42 minute sessions) through the car at a track that is NOTORIOUSLY hard on brakes without a wimper. Never a soft pedal or loss of modulation. I'm thrilled GM finally put a set of brakes on the car that work great.
I've found OEM iron rotors are better for track work than Girodisc. Been there, done that. I ran a set of Giro's on the front after my OEM's were trashed from track usage and track pads. Girodisc offered NO improved braking and substantially less longevity. I'm back to running OEM iron rotors. Rock Auto has them for MUCH less than Giro's. I keep a spare set on hand so I don't ruin a track day if one cracks midway through a day.
I've actually got a set of brand new, in the box REAR Giro's I'd like to sell. They've never been mounted.
Thanks for the info. I am inclined towards moving to the OEM option too. If not, i would have considered buying the Giros. Btw, did you start with CCB or steel set up?
Thanks for the info. I am inclined towards moving to the OEM option too. If not, i would have considered buying the Giros. Btw, did you start with CCB or steel set up?
Neither. FYI, the OEM brakes are NOT steel, they are cast iron. I'm not certain why so many think they're steel. Regardless, I started with OEM iron rotor brakes and will be staying that way. If the OEM iron brakes weren't up to the task of VERY aggressive track usage with slicks and race pads I would have switched to the AP Racing brakes, however, GM got it right this time.
After this thread, I sold my Z51, and got a '19 Z06 Z07. I've switched to OEM iron brakes on that car, too, and I'm using Girodisc 2-piece rotors on all corners. It's especially important to use Girodisc at the rear, since OEM rear rotors come with steel hubs to accommodate hand brake, and as such, are very heavy (24.8 lbs each OEM vs. 16.7 lbs each Girodisc). I highly recommend that you grab those rear Girodisc rotors from rikhek with a good discount : ))
Re:Feedback Girodisc cracking prematurely: Girodisc rotors are directional, and provide much better cooling, which is further augmented by the additional brake ducting GM provides on 2017+ cars for track use. Their metallurgy is also pretty strong, very similar to AP rings, and work pretty well... then how did they crack? Most of the times, cracking is a result of non-float 2-piece or 1-piece rotors that can't expand (not the case with Girodisc; they are floating design), OR heat shock. Girodisc rotors have higher cooling capacity per the design. If the driver is on a track where the rotors are hitting very high temps, and then immediately hitting a very long straightway, the temp delta on the rotor surface can become too high, which would end up shocking the rotor, causing micro-cracks, etc. Yes, cooling doesn't always solve problems (ask C5 racers), and sometimes race cars even inhibit their brake ducting to avoid such issues, depending on the track configuration. Another thing to note is to make excellent cool down laps. If you cut the cool down laps short, you increase your chances of cracks, substantially. In fact, most of the times, rotors would crack at the paddock, not at the track, due to uneven cool-down after car being parked, etc.
Hey guys,
I know this is an old thread, but i am at the same cross roads. I currently have Z07 CCBs and i plan to track the car, not a complete track car, but more like 5 track days a season. All my research points to CCBs being expensive to run. So my other options are
A. Girodisc CCB replacement rotors
B. Stock Z06 full brake kit
C. AP racing big brake kit.
D. Stock Z06 steel caliper with girodisc or other lighter rotors?
I sat and collected some numbers on the weights and cost for the first 3 options. This data is from different sources, so there will be some minor discrepancy here and there.
Btw, i will be holding on to the stock CCB set up, which i plan to re-install if i stop tracking or when i sell the car.
Having said that, looks like going to a Z06 steel set up is probably my ideal option, as in, its a good tradeoff between performance and cost. I get the fact that the AP racing kit is kickass, but so is the cost. I get the fact that running cost is lower, but so is it on the stock set up... replacement rotors are same cost as the rings for AP racing rotors.
Also, once i am doing using the Z06 stock set up, i might be able to recoup atleast 1000-1200 by selling all 4 calipers, right? So that should bring down my total investment for plan B to about 2500.
Am i missing some critical information here?
Your pad cost is incorrect. For track pads, the z07 iron replacement and z06 front pads are the same. The rear pads are the same size as z51 fronts.
Your caliper weights are incorrect. Doubt the much larger rear CCB calipers weigh the same as the z06 tiny ones.
I'm at the same point with my z07. Im going to replace the CCB with steel rotors and be done with it. I already have rear street and track pads from my previous car (z51 front). So I just need front street and track pads and rotors. Comes out to $3000.
I'm keeping the car for a very long time and am not worried about keeping the CCB rotors to put back on.
Last edited by BrunoTheMellow; 06-07-2019 at 07:48 AM.
LOL. Hell, even Bruno who I believe knows the difference calls them "steel" rotors when they are in fact iron. Being an engineer this is one of my pet peeves. I tell younger engineers "words are important."
For some reason I get really annoyed by the multitude of people who don't know the difference between "rims" and "wheels". It's crazy how many people call wheels "rims". How many times have you read a post of someone asking where to buy a decent set of forged "rims". I think they'd be better off with the entire "wheel" being forged instead of just the "rim."
This is no different than calling a piston an engine. A piston is one specific piece/component of an engine, same as a rim is a specific component of a wheel. I realize I'm just **** and it just is what it is...
Neither. FYI, the OEM brakes are NOT steel, they are cast iron. I'm not certain why so many think they're steel. Regardless, I started with OEM iron rotor brakes and will be staying that way. If the OEM iron brakes weren't up to the task of VERY aggressive track usage with slicks and race pads I would have switched to the AP Racing brakes, however, GM got it right this time.
Curious....
Aren't the calipers made of steel? and rotors are made of cast iron? So, should the brake set up be called iron brakes or steel brakes? LOL
I do agree, the rotors should be correctly called out as iron rotors.
After this thread, I sold my Z51, and got a '19 Z06 Z07. I've switched to OEM iron brakes on that car, too, and I'm using Girodisc 2-piece rotors on all corners. It's especially important to use Girodisc at the rear, since OEM rear rotors come with steel hubs to accommodate hand brake, and as such, are very heavy (24.8 lbs each OEM vs. 16.7 lbs each Girodisc). I highly recommend that you grab those rear Girodisc rotors from rikhek with a good discount : ))
Re:Feedback Girodisc cracking prematurely: Girodisc rotors are directional, and provide much better cooling, which is further augmented by the additional brake ducting GM provides on 2017+ cars for track use. Their metallurgy is also pretty strong, very similar to AP rings, and work pretty well... then how did they crack? Most of the times, cracking is a result of non-float 2-piece or 1-piece rotors that can't expand (not the case with Girodisc; they are floating design), OR heat shock. Girodisc rotors have higher cooling capacity per the design. If the driver is on a track where the rotors are hitting very high temps, and then immediately hitting a very long straightway, the temp delta on the rotor surface can become too high, which would end up shocking the rotor, causing micro-cracks, etc. Yes, cooling doesn't always solve problems (ask C5 racers), and sometimes race cars even inhibit their brake ducting to avoid such issues, depending on the track configuration. Another thing to note is to make excellent cool down laps. If you cut the cool down laps short, you increase your chances of cracks, substantially. In fact, most of the times, rotors would crack at the paddock, not at the track, due to uneven cool-down after car being parked, etc.
Thanks X25. that was good information.
I am assuming you are running the bigger Girodisc rotors(specially designed for CCB calipers) with your CCB calipers which came with the car. Question:
1. Are you running additional brake ducts like the LG duct/any other aftermarkt? I i have the stock set up on my 2017 (it has those ducts from the front fascia, and the add on ducts which pick up air from below the car and channel it towards the brakes).
2. I am guessing you went with the Raybestos ST43 pads, which some say needs to be specially ordered from Girodisc so they trim it down for you? Otherwise i have heard of some folks whose pad edge contacted the rotors?
3. Do you use new mounting hardware everytime you install new rings?
4. Any tips on vendors who offer the best deals on Girodisc rotors and ST43 pads?
fwiw I had the same issue with Giro rotors as Rick. Giro has since changed the rotors and I assume they're getting much more life out of them. I ended up going with the AP kit with the 390mm rotors in front. They are amazing. I still managed to kill the rotors at the same time I had to replace the pads but they lasted many times longer than the stock rotors.
LOL. Hell, even Bruno who I believe knows the difference calls them "steel" rotors when they are in fact iron. Being an engineer this is one of my pet peeves. I tell younger engineers "words are important."
For some reason I get really annoyed by the multitude of people who don't know the difference between "rims" and "wheels". It's crazy how many people call wheels "rims". How many times have you read a post of someone asking where to buy a decent set of forged "rims". I think they'd be better off with the entire "wheel" being forged instead of just the "rim."
This is no different than calling a piston an engine. A piston is one specific piece/component of an engine, same as a rim is a specific component of a wheel. I realize I'm just **** and it just is what it is...
There's an emoji somewhere for that. Definitely know the difference. Definitely not an engineer. definitely not a mechanical engineer. Definitely not an automotive mechanical engineer. Yeah let's go with that.
Last edited by BrunoTheMellow; 06-07-2019 at 05:10 PM.
OK guys I get that you have changed from the CCB's, but for those who haven't/aren't do we even have another choice for the CCB's other than the stock pads?
OK guys I get that you have changed from the CCB's, but for those who haven't/aren't do we even have another choice for the CCB's other than the stock pads?
I don't think so. Even if you find one, it should very explicitly state "FOR USE WITH CARBON CERAMIC ROTORS". I've heard that regular pads can cause premature wear on CC rotors, and you know how much they cost : )
Originally Posted by GShunter
Curious....
Aren't the calipers made of steel? and rotors are made of cast iron? So, should the brake set up be called iron brakes or steel brakes? LOL
I do agree, the rotors should be correctly called out as iron rotors.
Cheers!
The calipers are aluminum as far as I know.
Originally Posted by GShunter
Thanks X25. that was good information.
I am assuming you are running the bigger Girodisc rotors(specially designed for CCB calipers) with your CCB calipers which came with the car. Question:
1. Are you running additional brake ducts like the LG duct/any other aftermarkt? I i have the stock set up on my 2017 (it has those ducts from the front fascia, and the add on ducts which pick up air from below the car and channel it towards the brakes).
2. I am guessing you went with the Raybestos ST43 pads, which some say needs to be specially ordered from Girodisc so they trim it down for you? Otherwise i have heard of some folks whose pad edge contacted the rotors?
3. Do you use new mounting hardware everytime you install new rings?
4. Any tips on vendors who offer the best deals on Girodisc rotors and ST43 pads?
Again, appreciate your time!
I currently have C7 Z06 calipers (non-CCB) ad Girodisc rotors. I do not use the CCB calipers.
1. I am merely running GM's stock brake ducting (the one that comes preinstalled, as well as the optional one that comes in the trunk). Aftermarket brake ducting systems are all very high maintenance. You keep having to repair them. So, unless you really need it, OEM systems would be the way to go in my opinion.
2. The original Girodisc hat was very close to the caliper, and if the pad was off by a few mm from spec, it would hit the hat, and damage it. Girodisc has since changed the design and moved the hub bolts away from the caliper/pads. It is still recommended to get a better precision cut pads, though, since pad hitting the caliper walls is not a good thing, either, and the custom cut pads cut by Porterfield, as mentioned, are not always cut perfect. I'll provide a few links. FYI, Girodisc dropships for all the vendors that sell their products, so if you buy new, wherever you buy, it'd be the new hub design. Even if you have the old design, you can return it to Girodisc, and they'd replace it.
3. Yes, that would be safest. No, I don't always do it ( : P )
4.
- KNSBrakes is a good place. They know about those pad issues, etc., and their products don't have those issues. https://knsbrakes.com/c/car-items/25...5_Brake+Rotors https://knsbrakes.com/c/car-series/2...T43+Brake+Pads
Stock GM, non-Z07, iron-ish/bronze brakes. Hawk DTC 70 front, 60 rear + Castro’s SRF = flawless braking. I’ve run 30min ON track/ 30min OFF track for 8.5 hours at VIR full course. Repeat braking front straight and back straight from 155 and 165mph with no issues.
Stock GM, non-Z07, iron-ish/bronze brakes. Hawk DTC 70 front, 60 rear + Castro’s SRF = flawless braking. I’ve run 30min ON track/ 30min OFF track for 8.5 hours at VIR full course. Repeat braking front straight and back straight from 155 and 165mph with no issues.
That's amazing. I never got that kind of results. My rotors never lasted 5 days and I'd get a pedal that would go to the floor at least once every session and then be fine. Scared the crap out of me when it would happen. I think I was getting pad knock back. Switched to the Ap's and never had any trouble.
08-26-2018, 04:20 AM
Best brake solution for Z06/Z07 (track use) is.... Z06 brakes?
