Everybody is entitled to their own opinion boss. I own both and know how to shift some gears. It is not laughable that the A8 is much faster (mod for mod) vs the M7. I currently own both as well as a manual 2018 Zl1 too (and yes the A10 is faster than the M7). I’m in Houston and go out to Mexico literally every weekend evening and we roll race 600-1300 hp street cars. Bring ur M7 street C7Z here and get dog walked by the slow A8’s. Why do you think I’m selling my more fun M7 and keeping my A8.

 

Btw the attached file was in my M7

 

What's laughable is you can't take a joke. You post a picture of somebody puking at my car. Then I poke fun at your car and you had to run to your garage and take a picture of your drag car. Lighten up you'll live longer.

 

Sooooo do you have a stick shift in that car???

 

I think you meant to say the A8 is significantly faster from a standstill.
From my experience the M7 is usually faster from a roll. I have run bone stock A8 Z06s and A10 ZL1s with stock M7 Z's.
From a dig I lost to the A8 Z06, it was just too damn quick off the line, he got almost 3 cars on me before I could even blink. I did catch him before we got to about 150 mph but it was painful.

From a dig the ZL1 got about a half car but didn't hold it very long. I assume the extra 3 or 400 lbs had something to do with the results.

From a roll at anything above 60 mph (highway speeds) the M7 Z06 walked on both of them.
This really shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone if you look at what the cars put to the wheel on a dyno when they are in a 1:1 gear.
In 1:1 the A8 dynos about 30-40 whp less than an M7 in 1:1 due to parasitic drive-train loss.

The math shows us why an A8 can’t walk a M7 at highway speed from a roll.
At 60 mph the A8 can’t go back to 2nd gear, it can only go to 3rd. The M7 driver can go to 2nd.

The math shows us at that speed the M7 actually puts more power to the ground than an A8.
A8 whp at 60 mph = (2.41 final drive x 2.08 third gear x 550 hp) = 2757 whp (3rd gear)
M7 whp at 60 mph = ( 3.42 final drive x 1.61 2nd gear x 580 hp) = 3193 whp (2nd gear)

To be fair to the discussion, the M7 only holds this advantage until about 90 mph where it must shift into 3rd gear.
At this point the A8 is still in 3rd where it holds a 357 whp advantage over the M7 from 90 mph through 102 mph. The issue for the A8 is it only has this advantage for the short time it takes the cars to accelerate from 90 mph to 102 mph. The M7 held its power advantage from 60 mph to 90 mph or almost 3 times longer than the A8 holds its advantage from 90 mph to 102 mph.

So as anyone can see the A8 is hard pressed to roll with a M7 from 60 mph to 100 mph.

But the real problem for the A8 actually begins at 102 mph at the 3rd to 4th shift.
The math tells us why.

At 102 mph the M7 is in 3rd where it remains until about 125 mph.
At 102 mph the A8 is in 4th where it remains until about 125 mph.
From 102 mph to 125 mph the M7 delivers 2400 whp versus the A8’s 2240 whp.

Here again all things being equal an A8 is hard pressed to roll with the M7.

What happens next at 125 mph when both cars shift?
I am afraid nothing good mathematically for the A8.
After shifting at 125 mph the A8 is in 5th and the M7 is in 4th.
From 125 mph to 150 mph the M7 delivers 1983 whp versus the A8’s 1683 whp.

Again you can see until 150 mph the A8 is simply at a huge whp disadvantage.

At 150 mph the M7 must shift to 5th where the advantage swings back to the A8 (slightly).
A8 whp at 150 mph is 1683 compared to the M7’s 1626.

The A8 kills the M7 in a drag race all day every day.
But from a roll, not so much.

 

The message above was fascinating and a great read. This is my first Z06 and my experience at racing is non-existent (and my math isn't much better) so excuse me if this is a stupid question! Could the A8 perform more closely to the M7 from a roll using the paddle shifters?

 

Like a couple of people have said, A8 is good if you want to do a lot of drag racing or you daily the car where you WILL encounter lots of traffic. If it's your weekend car, i see no reason to go with an auto unless you're missing your left leg.

If the car was equipped with a proper auto, like the ZF 8 speed, then i actually would be owning an auto Z right, and loving every minute of it without missing the manual. But i'm still a manual guy and for how bad the auto is in these cars, was a no brainer when it came down to what trans i want to live with. Plus my Z is a weekend car so there you go.

The A8 is good if your foot is pinned to the floor and only 2-3,3-4 shifts are fast. On the stock trans tune. Of course the trans can get better if you tune it etc, but then there goes your warranty. Plus no thanks on all the stock trans problems. Fluid changes, shuddering, and all that, overheating, the 5th gear BRICK WALL!!! lol

The manual in our cars have been known to be very reliable. Unless you're beating on it or riding the clutch on hills, it should last you for the life of your ownership since most corvette guys don't keep their cars long anyway. I'm in my 4th year and under 20k miles, and i wanna upgrade to the C8Z, if it can debut already. Then i won't even be worrying about A8 problems nor a clutch, i'll be living the awesome DCT life!

 

I'm curious. Have you ever owned a DCT?

 

only stupid question is a question not asked. The paddles are absolutely useless in the A8 or Zl1 A10. Manually downshift it to desired gear then mash the gas and go back to auto mode and let the trans do its thing (when roll racing).

 

Multiple. GTI, jetta, ILX for a short term lease etc.

Buddy has a GTR. Another buddy has an M3.

Driven a few different types of cars with a DCT. It's good. And my opinion. So obviously there is no right or wrong here. The A8 in our cars blow. A10 is better but not great.

The ZF 8 speed IS INCREDIBLE. That's why multiple manufacturers use them.

I prefer the DCT. Because i want instant shifting at ANY rpm, under any load. Only auto with a torque converter to come close to that, is the ZF 8 speed.

 

This sounds really good if you are teaching high school physics. However, when comparing an A8 and M7 on the street the above outcome is not necessarily true because you have to take into consideration driver ability. The A8 will shift the same every time. To take full advantage of the above physics the M7 driver has to hit each shift pretty much dead on. What the A8 loses in drive train loss and gearing after 5th it can make up with perfect shifts.

Also, the M7 having an advantage in a roll is not necessarily true. The advantage has more to do with the starting point. Most rolls are from about 55-60 which is perfect for the M7, C6 Z06 or ZR1, or gen V viper. It sucks for the A8 (too high for 2nd too low for 3rd). The M7 here is at advantage as long as the driver hits every gear.

An A8 roll from 40 if done properly (In M so you stay in 2nd at 40 then drop in D as soon as you accelerate) will beat any M7. Done it dozens of times even switching drivers and cars.

Outcome has more to do with starting point and driver ability for the M7, and most can't out shift the A8.

 

If you are going to be able to cherry pick the driving times and days (7 days?) I’d maybe go for the M7. They are an absolute blast and with all the torque they are an easy manual to drive. BUT if I was going to drive it in bumper to bumper traffic in Manhattan, no freakin way. You’’ll regret it. I say this as some one who daily drives an M7 Z06 in Chicago8 months out of the year, but rarely in bumper to bumper traffic. It can be done but if you are going to spend most of your time in traffic, why bother?

 

Obviously the answer to this question is connected to personal choice but I'll throw in my situations for laughs....

I'm not loyal to any manufacturer - I just like cars. That being said, I have an overpowered car (2019 Z06 Callaway automatic) that I can't imagine having the same enjoyment if it was manual and then there's my previous Mustang 350GT that had a manual. Anyone who knows that car - knows that engine was perfectly matched to it's transmission and no person in their right mind would connect it to an automatic.

Now driving in Manhattan is a bitch for both cars because the manual sucks in traffic and the Z06 ground clearance sucks..... so my personal choice in this scenario is to drive my electric Kia when I'm in Philadelphia or NY City.

The moral of this story is use the correct tool for the job. Figure out where the car is going to spend 80% of its driving time and your manual/automatic question gets easier to answer. 🤘

 

Completely agree. I actually never drive my Z06 downtown, unless I’m intentionally going for a scenic drive on LSD. Otherwise, I drive my “winter driver” a Volvo XC90 R-Design...with the Autopilot (self driving in one lane) its a dream in bumper to bumper traffic.

 

I'm was asking because I have them (PDK) in a couple cars and initially I thought they were fantastic and I still do... but only on the track. Street driving they're now just another automatic that take a little while to downshift from 6 to 3 while low speed cruising and then you decide to nail it. Same thing with the A10 in a ZL1 - except the A10 takes even longer. The reviewers that boast that these transmissions always know what gear to be in are not talking day to day driving, they're tracking them. The reason I bought a manual Z06 was because the DCTs left me "wanting" on the street.

Point is that as good as DCTs are, they do take some thrill out of driving and you're not going to realize it right away - e.g. by driving a friend's car. Think of it as marrying the super model and then realizing that you miss the pretty girl with a fantastic personality.

 

you're 31, manuals will be extinct soon, you have all the rest of you life to get an auto.
if you enjoy driving, M7 all the way

 

Tough call. My first car was a stick (97 Firebird TA) and I put a good 60k on that car over the years while driving to college, through traffic etc. I did it but can't say I loved it. Since I still have the TA....with a bit more power now, I won't ever switch that car to auto but for the C7Z, I went with the auto. My commute has a good amount of traffic and honestly, its nice to sit there and not have to work a clutch in stop and go. Yes I miss a manual on a good track day or nice road but not enough to overcome the benefits of an auto in traffic.

You see where I am going with this but I would go with the auto. If you weren't thinking of driving it often into the city then I would say go with the stick as a little "suffering" is fine but with the frequency you plan on using it, again....auto.

 

FYI - The OP - who hasn't returned to his post - posted two weeks ago that he had bumped his budget to $35K - he's not is Z06 land:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1600901731

I'm all for helping where I can but sometimes I feel we're being used.

 

That's a tough commute into NYC, I go in fairly often in fact will be there next week. I always used rentals and they are auto's of course. To me it is so much easier to squeeze in and out of openings and stop and go's with a auto. Besides the fact you are going to be hitting some less than ideal streets. I own the manual but it is my cruise car and I enjoy the shifting but moving around in manhattan or thereabouts is going to be a nightmare. Just my 2 cents, you can for sure squeeze quickly into some tight spaces when moving thru traffic but you also have a very nice car that people in the city could give a **** less about.

 

I believe you have posted in wrong Thread. This OP started this thread on 3/3/2020 about trying to decide M7/A8 for city driving. This seems like the dreaded “related thread” has bitten you.👍