Yet Another Alignment Question
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 243
Likes: 59
From: Benicia CA
Yet Another Alignment Question
I have searched but could not find info on this. I have a 2019 Z06 that I am trying to get aligned with less rear camber for tire wear. I don't track it enough to worry about max performance. I have been to 3 different shops, including the dealer. I get the same results. On the rear they can adjust the camber down to zero to -.5 but then the toes is out. If they get the toe close to zero, the least amount of camber is -1. They run out of adjustments on the cams to get both less camber and zero toe.
Has anyone else experienced this? Is there an adjustment kit that would give more movement? I've seen camber kits for more camber but I want less.
Thanks as always
Joe
Has anyone else experienced this? Is there an adjustment kit that would give more movement? I've seen camber kits for more camber but I want less.
Thanks as always
Joe
Last edited by JJoeG; Mar 15, 2024 at 05:34 PM. Reason: spelling
Drifting
Joined: Sep 2019
Posts: 1,355
Likes: 635
From: St. Louis
Don't forget about rear caster when doing rear alignment. You can buy aftermarket adjustable rear toe links that provide a larger range of adjustment. Those are needed when going for more negative camber - this is the first time I have heard of them being needed for less camber.
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 243
Likes: 59
From: Benicia CA
Tech Contributor
Joined: Oct 1999
Posts: 41,055
Likes: 9,817
From: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Do you know whether or not they measured the rear caster and adjusted it to maintain it at 0.0 degrees? When adjusting for extreme ranges of rear camber they may have to move both the front and rear of the lower control arm cams which also affects caster. Moving the rear cam affects camber more than caster while moving the front cam has more of an impact on caster. If you have two extreme settings for camber and caster the toe links may not have sufficient adjustment range. GM recommends a track alignment of -2.0 degrees in the rear with a camber setting of 0 degrees. The toe links have sufficient adjustment to permit the GM recommended toe setting. However, when I tried to have rear camber set at -2.0 degrees with rear camber set at +0.7 degrees I (and others) couldn't get the toe settings we wanted because the toe link cams prevented setting rear toe at anything less than some small of toe out. When we reset camber to -1.8 deg then while maintaining +0.7 deg caster we were able to get 0 deg toe and a very small amount of toe in if we wanted.
After a few track days I purchased the Granatelli Toe links that have sufficient adjustment range to let me set toe wherever I want it. However, after a few years I found the exposed rod end links on each end of the Granatelli toe links and most of the other aftermarket toe link providers wore out (from too much exposure to road dirt) and had to be replaced. When I was checking my wheel bearings while prepping for a track weekend I found the slop in the Granatelli rod ends totaled about 1/16 of an inch on each side of the car. So I might see up to a 1/8 change in rear toe while driving the car. Once I fixed that problem the car felt much better to drive.
You don't need to reduce your rear camber to anywhere near 0 degrees camber to avoid tire wear. The GM street spec calls -1.1 deg rear camber with a plus or minus 0.6 deg tolerance and zero toe plus or minus 0.2 degrees of toe. I get very even wear across my rear tires with my 1.8 deg of camber and 0 toe.
By dropping to 0 deg camber in the rear you may start to get outside tread wear Vs inside tread wear. Why not shoot for -0.5 deg rear camber with 0.0 deg rear caster and see if the shop can achieve 0.0 deg of rear toe? The rear toe links have been known to slip their adjustments but I suspect a lot of that is due to the people doing the work not tightening the bolts to spec. The torque setting for the rear control arm mounts is 125 lb-ft and when working under the car on a mid-rise alignment lift it can be physically hard to turn the wrench to reach that setting. If you don't track a lot I wouldn't switch to aftermarket toe links due to the rod end wear problem.
Bill
After a few track days I purchased the Granatelli Toe links that have sufficient adjustment range to let me set toe wherever I want it. However, after a few years I found the exposed rod end links on each end of the Granatelli toe links and most of the other aftermarket toe link providers wore out (from too much exposure to road dirt) and had to be replaced. When I was checking my wheel bearings while prepping for a track weekend I found the slop in the Granatelli rod ends totaled about 1/16 of an inch on each side of the car. So I might see up to a 1/8 change in rear toe while driving the car. Once I fixed that problem the car felt much better to drive.
You don't need to reduce your rear camber to anywhere near 0 degrees camber to avoid tire wear. The GM street spec calls -1.1 deg rear camber with a plus or minus 0.6 deg tolerance and zero toe plus or minus 0.2 degrees of toe. I get very even wear across my rear tires with my 1.8 deg of camber and 0 toe.
By dropping to 0 deg camber in the rear you may start to get outside tread wear Vs inside tread wear. Why not shoot for -0.5 deg rear camber with 0.0 deg rear caster and see if the shop can achieve 0.0 deg of rear toe? The rear toe links have been known to slip their adjustments but I suspect a lot of that is due to the people doing the work not tightening the bolts to spec. The torque setting for the rear control arm mounts is 125 lb-ft and when working under the car on a mid-rise alignment lift it can be physically hard to turn the wrench to reach that setting. If you don't track a lot I wouldn't switch to aftermarket toe links due to the rod end wear problem.
Bill
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Dec 2013
Posts: 243
Likes: 59
From: Benicia CA
Do you know whether or not they measured the rear caster and adjusted it to maintain it at 0.0 degrees? When adjusting for extreme ranges of rear camber they may have to move both the front and rear of the lower control arm cams which also affects caster. Moving the rear cam affects camber more than caster while moving the front cam has more of an impact on caster. If you have two extreme settings for camber and caster the toe links may not have sufficient adjustment range. GM recommends a track alignment of -2.0 degrees in the rear with a camber setting of 0 degrees. The toe links have sufficient adjustment to permit the GM recommended toe setting. However, when I tried to have rear camber set at -2.0 degrees with rear camber set at +0.7 degrees I (and others) couldn't get the toe settings we wanted because the toe link cams prevented setting rear toe at anything less than some small of toe out. When we reset camber to -1.8 deg then while maintaining +0.7 deg caster we were able to get 0 deg toe and a very small amount of toe in if we wanted.
After a few track days I purchased the Granatelli Toe links that have sufficient adjustment range to let me set toe wherever I want it. However, after a few years I found the exposed rod end links on each end of the Granatelli toe links and most of the other aftermarket toe link providers wore out (from too much exposure to road dirt) and had to be replaced. When I was checking my wheel bearings while prepping for a track weekend I found the slop in the Granatelli rod ends totaled about 1/16 of an inch on each side of the car. So I might see up to a 1/8 change in rear toe while driving the car. Once I fixed that problem the car felt much better to drive.
You don't need to reduce your rear camber to anywhere near 0 degrees camber to avoid tire wear. The GM street spec calls -1.1 deg rear camber with a plus or minus 0.6 deg tolerance and zero toe plus or minus 0.2 degrees of toe. I get very even wear across my rear tires with my 1.8 deg of camber and 0 toe.
By dropping to 0 deg camber in the rear you may start to get outside tread wear Vs inside tread wear. Why not shoot for -0.5 deg rear camber with 0.0 deg rear caster and see if the shop can achieve 0.0 deg of rear toe? The rear toe links have been known to slip their adjustments but I suspect a lot of that is due to the people doing the work not tightening the bolts to spec. The torque setting for the rear control arm mounts is 125 lb-ft and when working under the car on a mid-rise alignment lift it can be physically hard to turn the wrench to reach that setting. If you don't track a lot I wouldn't switch to aftermarket toe links due to the rod end wear problem.
Bill
After a few track days I purchased the Granatelli Toe links that have sufficient adjustment range to let me set toe wherever I want it. However, after a few years I found the exposed rod end links on each end of the Granatelli toe links and most of the other aftermarket toe link providers wore out (from too much exposure to road dirt) and had to be replaced. When I was checking my wheel bearings while prepping for a track weekend I found the slop in the Granatelli rod ends totaled about 1/16 of an inch on each side of the car. So I might see up to a 1/8 change in rear toe while driving the car. Once I fixed that problem the car felt much better to drive.
You don't need to reduce your rear camber to anywhere near 0 degrees camber to avoid tire wear. The GM street spec calls -1.1 deg rear camber with a plus or minus 0.6 deg tolerance and zero toe plus or minus 0.2 degrees of toe. I get very even wear across my rear tires with my 1.8 deg of camber and 0 toe.
By dropping to 0 deg camber in the rear you may start to get outside tread wear Vs inside tread wear. Why not shoot for -0.5 deg rear camber with 0.0 deg rear caster and see if the shop can achieve 0.0 deg of rear toe? The rear toe links have been known to slip their adjustments but I suspect a lot of that is due to the people doing the work not tightening the bolts to spec. The torque setting for the rear control arm mounts is 125 lb-ft and when working under the car on a mid-rise alignment lift it can be physically hard to turn the wrench to reach that setting. If you don't track a lot I wouldn't switch to aftermarket toe links due to the rod end wear problem.
Bill
Thank you for such a detailed response!
Joe
Last edited by JJoeG; Apr 3, 2024 at 03:19 PM. Reason: grammer
