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ZR1: A superhero, yes...a legend, no. ZR1=Identity Crisis

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Old 12-04-2017, 03:04 AM   #1
K.I.T.T.
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Default ZR1: A superhero, yes...a legend, no. ZR1=Identity Crisis

First of all, I suggest you stop reading at this point, save yourself the next five minutes of lost time and seek better content. You've been warned.

Hear me out. This isn't a troll effect or the desire to start a flame war. This is merely my wanting to be on the record about a car I think many of us hoped and dreamed would happen. When I watched the live reveal in January of 2013, I couldn't help but think of the machine they could build out of what appeared to be an exceptional chassis. Hear me out here.

The buyers of America are always going to dictate what these companies build, and end of day, I don't fault GM for this ZR1. I appreciate the engineers for what they put together, 100%. I realize they have their own parameters, their own buyer data, their own perception of demand but...the ZR1, in my opinion...it's a mess...I can't even lie. I want to love it, but for God's sake...I can't.


Identity Crisis - Add a tow hitch and a roof rack option...what isn't GM trying to make this car do. It has no identity. It commits to absolutely nothing whatsoever. This car is basically a deception...the ultimate chameleon. In some perspectives, that's a win. To Tadge...the preacher of "bandwidth"...huge win. Fact is though, there is a reason why there are "legends" (certain Pcars) and why the closest GM got to building legends was in the 60's with Zora's secret basement builds. C5 Z06 really tapped something as well. It hinted at a new kind of Corvette...one that really wanted to be exceptional. Titanium exhaust, lighter than the coupe, raw, focused...very Porsche Clubsport'ish....very admirable.

I looked at the current Z06 and I said...sharpen that car and you've got something special. Take that motor out, shave some weight, really focus that car and you've got a diamond. They didn't sharpen it though...they made it heavier, bigger, fatter, bolder and lumped on some horsepower. They made it purely American, purely American Corvette..a fatbody with a poor sense of style. This isn't a sports car with some muscle...i.e. the CORE of CORVETTE'S recipe...this is a muscle car with grip. They built the old mans chance to be young again and so be it, I get it.

Hood shaker, huge supercharged horsepower, automatic, opened top....with a wing. A truly puny, ricerish, short chord length wing at that...not a proper airfoil like an ACR, or even approaching the C7R. We got this anime' JDM'ish wing that belongs on a BRZ. It's like they wanted SO bad to put a wing on the car, but just couldn't quite commit to it. Take it a step farther and they debut the convertible as their choice vehicle for the stage. . Now you have a convertible with a body kit and a BRZ wing....

Look, I get it...some of you LOOOOVE IT and I'm glad you do, that's awesome. This is why it will succeed where the former Z06 and ZR1 didn't. Mind you, we were mid recession then and those numbers almost can't be considered but...I get it. Z06 and ZR1 needed and auto and hair in the wind for the older fellas to want it.

I feel the sadness really hit home here though, because this likely was GM's last chance to do something truly legendary with an analog driver car. A chance to go out before regulation chokes this deal, with something bigger than ACR...something truly sharpened. Totally blew an opportunity with LT5 and a quad cam beast of a motor. Something to really take on GT3RS, ACR, AMG GTR, and show the world that GM can build something for that stage.

Will it be fast on track, in the right hands....yes
Will it be a "bang for the buck"...ehhhhhhhhh....sure...I suppose...
Will it be more successful than the prior ZR1, I'm sure

The biggest issue I have here, is that this car is going to be sold as the "track ratt's" dream and the Nurburgring will be put behind it, etc. This car completely missed the purists though and it shouldn't...it's got a manual, aero, refinement...it could've been one of the best ever made. GM had it ALL nearly in the parts bin to put out something f*ckin amazing and didn't....it likely couldn't.

What I thank C7 for is a great chassis...thank you for that slate to build on. Thank you for an edgy design and an aggressive widebody design that has monstrous presence on the street. Thank you for a solid base engine and transmission to build on. Thank you for giving the purists something to work with at least....the GrandSport.


Sorry folks...7 Corvettes owned, will own many more. I go to the races, I followed since the first days of ALMS, and now weathertech...I was in the garage with the boys when they pulled in the championship this year. I just wanted one to be for us....I realize the ACR taught a lesson about America though...build it and a few very dedicated will come, but not many more.

I feel like some select media mags and groups are going to shred this car to bits though...I'm just sayin. This isn't the Corvette of old that helped you get to 9/10's with ease. This car is going to make you go to work and most people won't tame this car unless it's going to be equipped with some trickery yet announced.


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Old 12-04-2017, 05:53 AM   #2
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Cool.
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Old 12-04-2017, 06:35 AM   #3
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lots of us LT5 guys miss the NA DOHC approach and the same 750 HP was on the table with an 8k redline at an affordable price from Merc marine sb4

would have been a very special engine, and more optimized for the track

I for one want to see this car retake the 24 hour record and know most of the folks that did it last time (and would likely DO IT AGAIN)

That "pedigree" you speak of on what makes a car special is lost in the numbers sometimes. I have a TT Z06 that will blast my old LPE ZR-1, but yet the ZR-1 gets the nod.

When the mighty lion roars it's a very special feeling like a run away freight train as the car revs to 7500

and yes, I am eagerly awaiting a TT DOHC c8

the ZR-1 of yore was a very special time for Corvette, it set a new bar for quality and "world class" that was missing. Dave M was a genius and knew how to source the right stuff and put together a quality product.

the new ZR-1 is in need of a diet, as are most modern performance cars not made of CF.

I'm disappointed that with more and more exotic material the "power to weight" ratio isn't seeing what I would like. And blown cars are not as adept on the track and all that additional cooling is additional weight.

at the end of the day, 750 and soon 850 are going to make for some very special corvettes.

I'm not at all disappointed, GM knows it has more coming and at least stepped up to DI and PI and the big 2650 blower

this car has "room to grow" with ease and we'll soon see 900 hp zr-1s running around in no time.

I'll take mine with e85 to go please.
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Old 12-04-2017, 08:12 AM   #4
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At first, I wanted to dislike your post, but then grew fond of the opening and middle. Leaned a little towards apathy at the end, but appreciate your solid effort at constructing it and putting your spin on things. I suspect this mirrors your points about this car, however, at the end of the day, I think it's a killer way to end the FE/RD era.

PS-I would not be upset if they wanted to also add a ZO6X type model with less HP, lighter weight, and track tuning, ala 911 GT3RS. This would broaden the Corvette lineup to cover base to ultimate GT to track day special just like Porsche does. They may help appease the majority of the masses, offering a something for everyone model.
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Old 12-04-2017, 08:52 AM   #5
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One more for me I am still getting one, it will be lucky number 13 in terms of vette's, was hoping for demon hp numbers, since it will be sitting next to it in the garage. I don't track my cars only drive them on the street. The next model will be better and faster, and the one after that will be even better and even faster, may ever buy another Tesla when their 8 second quarter mile car comes out
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Old 12-04-2017, 08:57 AM   #6
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All Americans have heard about this new legendary corvette...

The original poster isn't impressed but the rest of us mere mortals are.

Even a few mclaren owners I know are mighty impressed....with the insane performance capabilities of the ZR1...

But the original poster and a few detractors on this site are not...

Good luck and thanks for your opinion.,.

Keeps it interesting even though we disagree.
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:37 AM   #7
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all 2019 are expected to sell as built. (2000 or so). Would the vette you wanted sell 2000? I know I'd pass. The good news is if you want a stripper, you can buy it and tear it apart.
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:37 AM   #8
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Sorry Op. I think you have to get your priorities straight. This ZR1 will dominate 99.9% of the cars on the track yet still able to tour with it to Napa Valley for a wine tasting weekend. Team Corvette has got this car spot-on to do all of the above in the same style of the Ferrari 812 Superfast or the F12 TDF, not the market compromised GT2 RS with it's de-contented interior and door straps. It's ironic that you wanted the ZR1 to compete with the GT3 RS when the Grand Sport did just that at the Lightning Lap test in which it essentially matched it's lap time.

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Old 12-04-2017, 09:50 AM   #9
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GM builds a 755HP super car that will mop the floor with the 911 that costs about the same and the trolls can only rant on over what the ZR1 "could have been". Why so much hate on the ZR1? Will it make the imports look that bad?
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Old 12-04-2017, 09:58 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99HRDTP View Post
At first, I wanted to dislike your post, but then grew fond of the opening and middle. Leaned a little towards apathy at the end, but appreciate your solid effort at constructing it and putting your spin on things. I suspect this mirrors your points about this car, however, at the end of the day, I think it's a killer way to end the FE/RD era.

PS-I would not be upset if they wanted to also add a ZO6X type model with less HP, lighter weight, and track tuning, ala 911 GT3RS. This would broaden the Corvette lineup to cover base to ultimate GT to track day special just like Porsche does. They may help appease the majority of the masses, offering a something for everyone model.

I think we'll see a limited run more track focussed version of the ZR1 before the C7 cycle ends. It makes sense to mirror Porsche's success formula if Corvette wants to compete heads up against Porsche. The upcoming ZR1 makes sense in that Corvette can capture a wider demographic with a "loaded" ZR1 (including convertibles) right out of the gate for volume then narrow the focus to a narrow demographic that focuses purely on track performance.

I've seen far too many posts of owner's concerns regarding price of upcoming Mid Engine car to fully believe the Front Engine Corvette will go away completely. I'm still hanging on to the belief that the C8 will be an evolution of front engine design and the Mid Engine car will be named Zora or something different...similar to what Ford did with their GT.
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:03 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by K.I.T.T. View Post
First of all, I suggest you stop reading at this point, save yourself the next five minutes of lost time and seek better content. You've been warned.

Hear me out. This isn't a troll effect or the desire to start a flame war. This is merely my wanting to be on the record about a car I think many of us hoped and dreamed would happen. When I watched the live reveal in January of 2013, I couldn't help but think of the machine they could build out of what appeared to be an exceptional chassis. Hear me out here.

The buyers of America are always going to dictate what these companies build, and end of day, I don't fault GM for this ZR1. I appreciate the engineers for what they put together, 100%. I realize they have their own parameters, their own buyer data, their own perception of demand but...the ZR1, in my opinion...it's a mess...I can't even lie. I want to love it, but for God's sake...I can't.


Identity Crisis - Add a tow hitch and a roof rack option...what isn't GM trying to make this car do. It has no identity. It commits to absolutely nothing whatsoever. This car is basically a deception...the ultimate chameleon. In some perspectives, that's a win. To Tadge...the preacher of "bandwidth"...huge win. Fact is though, there is a reason why there are "legends" (certain Pcars) and why the closest GM got to building legends was in the 60's with Zora's secret basement builds. C5 Z06 really tapped something as well. It hinted at a new kind of Corvette...one that really wanted to be exceptional. Titanium exhaust, lighter than the coupe, raw, focused...very Porsche Clubsport'ish....very admirable.

I looked at the current Z06 and I said...sharpen that car and you've got something special. Take that motor out, shave some weight, really focus that car and you've got a diamond. They didn't sharpen it though...they made it heavier, bigger, fatter, bolder and lumped on some horsepower. They made it purely American, purely American Corvette..a fatbody with a poor sense of style. This isn't a sports car with some muscle...i.e. the CORE of CORVETTE'S recipe...this is a muscle car with grip. They built the old mans chance to be young again and so be it, I get it.

Hood shaker, huge supercharged horsepower, automatic, opened top....with a wing. A truly puny, ricerish, short chord length wing at that...not a proper airfoil like an ACR, or even approaching the C7R. We got this anime' JDM'ish wing that belongs on a BRZ. It's like they wanted SO bad to put a wing on the car, but just couldn't quite commit to it. Take it a step farther and they debut the convertible as their choice vehicle for the stage. . Now you have a convertible with a body kit and a BRZ wing....

Look, I get it...some of you LOOOOVE IT and I'm glad you do, that's awesome. This is why it will succeed where the former Z06 and ZR1 didn't. Mind you, we were mid recession then and those numbers almost can't be considered but...I get it. Z06 and ZR1 needed and auto and hair in the wind for the older fellas to want it.

I feel the sadness really hit home here though, because this likely was GM's last chance to do something truly legendary with an analog driver car. A chance to go out before regulation chokes this deal, with something bigger than ACR...something truly sharpened. Totally blew an opportunity with LT5 and a quad cam beast of a motor. Something to really take on GT3RS, ACR, AMG GTR, and show the world that GM can build something for that stage.

Will it be fast on track, in the right hands....yes
Will it be a "bang for the buck"...ehhhhhhhhh....sure...I suppose...
Will it be more successful than the prior ZR1, I'm sure

The biggest issue I have here, is that this car is going to be sold as the "track ratt's" dream and the Nurburgring will be put behind it, etc. This car completely missed the purists though and it shouldn't...it's got a manual, aero, refinement...it could've been one of the best ever made. GM had it ALL nearly in the parts bin to put out something f*ckin amazing and didn't....it likely couldn't.


What I thank C7 for is a great chassis...thank you for that slate to build on. Thank you for an edgy design and an aggressive widebody design that has monstrous presence on the street. Thank you for a solid base engine and transmission to build on. Thank you for giving the purists something to work with at least....the GrandSport.


Sorry folks...7 Corvettes owned, will own many more. I go to the races, I followed since the first days of ALMS, and now weathertech...I was in the garage with the boys when they pulled in the championship this year. I just wanted one to be for us....I realize the ACR taught a lesson about America though...build it and a few very dedicated will come, but not many more.

I feel like some select media mags and groups are going to shred this car to bits though...I'm just sayin. This isn't the Corvette of old that helped you get to 9/10's with ease. This car is going to make you go to work and most people won't tame this car unless it's going to be equipped with some trickery yet announced.

Since you brought up how many corvetteís you owned, Iíll just mention that I have owned 21, yes 21! And you are totally wrong about the ZR1. It is a monumental car. It has raw power, unreal handling, upscale interior that rivals any import, and on and on. It WILL beat any production 911, and probably eat the 488, and Huracan. If you donít like it, go buy a overpriced Porsche. But constantly bashing the ZR1 wonít make it failure.
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:22 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by punky View Post
GM builds a 755HP super car that will mop the floor with the 911 that costs about the same and the trolls can only rant on over what the ZR1 "could have been". Why so much hate on the ZR1? Will it make the imports look that bad?
It is the C7's lot in life. EVERY variant of the C7 has been thrown to the wolves by various folks who Monday morning quarterback EVERY thing about this generation. Is the C7 perfect. NO, and no one has suggested otherwise. Certainly, the C7 Z06 overheating issue was INEXCUSABLE. But, GM is smart, and THEY KNOW that appealing to PURISTS is a sure fire way to KILL the Corvette. One needs to simply look at the Viper to see where appealing to the purists gets you. Everyone LOVES to admire them, sadly, no one actually BOUGHT them (in sufficient #'s to be sustainable).
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:49 AM   #13
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Who here would change their mind regarding the purchase of a ZR1 if it doesn't break 7:00 at the almighty "Ring"?
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Old 12-04-2017, 11:52 AM   #14
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I complied w/the OP’s disclaimer. What did I miss?
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Old 12-04-2017, 12:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99HRDTP View Post
At first, I wanted to dislike your post, but then grew fond of the opening and middle. Leaned a little towards apathy at the end, but appreciate your solid effort at constructing it and putting your spin on things. I suspect this mirrors your points about this car, however, at the end of the day, I think it's a killer way to end the FE/RD era.

PS-I would not be upset if they wanted to also add a ZO6X type model with less HP, lighter weight, and track tuning, ala 911 GT3RS. This would broaden the Corvette lineup to cover base to ultimate GT to track day special just like Porsche does. They may help appease the majority of the masses, offering a something for everyone model.
The C6 Z06X was a concept car. It had no new technology that increased horsepower or shaved weight. They took a street legal Z06 and installed a roll cage making the car unsuitable for the street. The only thing the Z06X had that would increase performance was a wing stuck on the back. If GM had produced a Z06X that was identical to the concept car, they would have a car with serial number and not a VIN(thus not licensable) as the car did not meet crash standards.

GM's COPO Camaro is an example as it has a serial number and not a VIN.

The Porsche 911 GT3RS has a VIN and can be licensed as does the Porsche GT2 RS and the AMG GT R that have proven themselves to be very quick on a road course. AMG is going to release a Black series GT R shortly and they will raise the bar. It will have more horsepower and less weight than the current GT R. It will have a VIN also.

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Old 12-04-2017, 12:31 PM   #16
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I agree with the OP. The ZR1 seems like just 'more' or what we've already been given. I also think it's a tragedy that Tadge would go on record saying that the 'best handling' is the GS, when there are two more expensive models on the showroom floor. I wanted more of that, not a bigger blower.

However, there is no way to make a car that is everything to everyone.

It's well known that the Corvette community has an dedicated following and exceptional list of customization sources. In the American automotive industry, it's the manufacturer's job to move units, and the aftermarket's job to tune, tweak and adjust those offerings into the individual's car.

I'm not sure how many countries offer a 'SEMA' style event, but I think that only in America would it be considered for the announcement of new manufacturer platform.
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Old 12-04-2017, 01:04 PM   #17
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Anybody not impressed with the zr1 is crazy....lol
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:01 PM   #18
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Anybody not impressed with the zr1 is crazy....lol
I'm impressed by the ZR1! I'm impressed by the Z06.
I'm staying with the two Z06's. The ZR1 is good for the brand and I hope it breaks records. A track weapon ready to go!

Great part is for me I don't track and should able to be happy with the Z06. imo It is the better looking more practical car.


2018 and later should still be tunable! The 2019 ZR1 has a new ECM that may not be able to be tuned

Always something better coming out and I will wait and see what the ME Corvette brings!
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Old 12-04-2017, 02:02 PM   #19
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Default 2019 Corvette ZR1 first ride: Right-seat laps....

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Old 12-04-2017, 02:07 PM   #20
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You did warn me but I didn't listen and wasted 4 minutes of my life. Your opinion is way too premature.
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