Is A8 on ZR1 the same as it is on Z06
12-20-2017, 02:10 PM
#21
Racer
I read on GM authority that the only thing different will be the AFM delete. I'm sure the extra cooling and the updated software helped but considering how much torque converter issues the 8L90 in the Camaro/C7 is having I would stay far away from it. Almost 3/10 folks are having the "shuddering" TC issue and GM's 3 flush band-aid fix is well, just a band-aid fix.
A10 seems to hold up pretty well.. Too bad they couldn't fit it on the ZR1.
A10 seems to hold up pretty well.. Too bad they couldn't fit it on the ZR1.
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chevyfanatic (06-23-2018)
12-26-2017, 06:55 PM
#22
Team Owner
12-26-2017, 06:59 PM
#23
Team Owner
I do track my car agressively and have 25 years racing on tracks. I never thought I would admit to this, but in back to back tests the automatic is faster on the track than the manual. Faster shifts, always ready for the right gear, either up or down, and frees the driver a little to focus on driving at the limit.
The corvette engineers nailed it. Do not use the paddles and let the programming do the work. Fastest in track mode, submode Sport 2.
The corvette engineers nailed it. Do not use the paddles and let the programming do the work. Fastest in track mode, submode Sport 2.
12-26-2017, 07:12 PM
#24
Team Owner
1,000% this! 
A large part of my enthusiasm for driving has always been the technique and skill required to drive a manual car really well. I watched countless videos of Senna and Best Motoring studying the techniques as I beat up my cars on the street and track mastering this art form in my early 20s. 
However, as cars get faster and higher tech, you can start to appreciate why DCTs have as much of a take-rate as they do in exotic cars. While it's fun to say exotic car owners are a bunch of wieners that just want to be seen and are too rich and spoiled to be troubled with shifting, hence their affection for flappy paddles, that is not true in all cases (probably true in most though, LOL). I purchased a GT-R a couple years ago as a daily driver and over time have really begun to enjoy the gearbox and paddle shifting. With something as fast as that car, especially a turbo car, the DCT just makes sense. Obviously it is quicker with the launch software and no loss of boost pressure on shifts, but what is interesting is that the paddles are actually engaging, especially in its "R" mode. I assumed I'd get bored of it quickly and at first complained about the lack of a manual when people would ask me how I liked the car. But after a few months, always in manual "R" mode, I started to appreciate that I was still driving a "manual gearbox" car. I had complete and instant control over the current gear my automobile was in and was not driving an "automatic". I couldn't control the level of clutch slip or do my own blips but I was still in control of everything the car was doing. If I'm being honest, the longer I own that car, the more I think a portion of the love of 3-pedals is to satisfy some arrogance that you are doing something which requires skill and the majority of the general public can't do anymore.
Is it as much fun to drive as a stick shift? I think that is hard to quantify since it comes down to personal taste. But generally, stick is more fun on street at 7 or 8 tenths when you can really get a feel for the car and enjoy the process with some margin for error. On the track, or really bombing the car hard on a back road... the DCT may be more enjoyable. You can really focus on the other aspects of driving; braking, turn-in, balancing the car, etc, while still getting great feedback from the instant response of the paddles on up-shifts, and enjoyable perfectly rev-matched downshifts.
One of the main purposes of fast street cars (at least for me) is to be able to experience the thrill and speed of a racing car. Hence, race on Sunday, sell on Monday!
If you watch any modern racing series and enjoy the on-board videos, everything is paddle-shifted sequential manual gearboxes. So it makes sense that a modern fast street car would have that technology. Unfortunately, the A8 does not mimic this technology or feeling of control over the shift. For someone who loves the feeling and sound of a rev-matched downshift, downshifting an A8 is about as depressing an experience as you can have. Yes, it works well in auto mode, yes, it shifts quickly at WOT, but the response and feel from using the paddles is just weak. To me, it completely kills the car. Now, for those that don't care about the "feel" of the shift, it is fine. It is also the preferable choice for drag racers, which I completely understand. But I just don't understand how GM would think the A8 setup is good enough for a 2019 Corvette, especially if they have driven anything with a DCT or PDK gearbox, it boggles the mind.
If GM offered the ZR1 with a DCT would I have chosen that over the M7? I do not think I would have, but I would've considered it. I think, in the end, I'd still go with a manual in a front engine Vette, it just feels "right" to me. However, with the upcoming C8, if there is a manual vs DCT option for an 800+ HP twin turbo mid-engine car, I may just go the other way.
A large part of my enthusiasm for driving has always been the technique and skill required to drive a manual car really well. I watched countless videos of Senna and Best Motoring studying the techniques as I beat up my cars on the street and track mastering this art form in my early 20s. However, as cars get faster and higher tech, you can start to appreciate why DCTs have as much of a take-rate as they do in exotic cars. While it's fun to say exotic car owners are a bunch of wieners that just want to be seen and are too rich and spoiled to be troubled with shifting, hence their affection for flappy paddles, that is not true in all cases (probably true in most though, LOL). I purchased a GT-R a couple years ago as a daily driver and over time have really begun to enjoy the gearbox and paddle shifting. With something as fast as that car, especially a turbo car, the DCT just makes sense. Obviously it is quicker with the launch software and no loss of boost pressure on shifts, but what is interesting is that the paddles are actually engaging, especially in its "R" mode. I assumed I'd get bored of it quickly and at first complained about the lack of a manual when people would ask me how I liked the car. But after a few months, always in manual "R" mode, I started to appreciate that I was still driving a "manual gearbox" car. I had complete and instant control over the current gear my automobile was in and was not driving an "automatic". I couldn't control the level of clutch slip or do my own blips but I was still in control of everything the car was doing. If I'm being honest, the longer I own that car, the more I think a portion of the love of 3-pedals is to satisfy some arrogance that you are doing something which requires skill and the majority of the general public can't do anymore.
Is it as much fun to drive as a stick shift? I think that is hard to quantify since it comes down to personal taste. But generally, stick is more fun on street at 7 or 8 tenths when you can really get a feel for the car and enjoy the process with some margin for error. On the track, or really bombing the car hard on a back road... the DCT may be more enjoyable. You can really focus on the other aspects of driving; braking, turn-in, balancing the car, etc, while still getting great feedback from the instant response of the paddles on up-shifts, and enjoyable perfectly rev-matched downshifts.
One of the main purposes of fast street cars (at least for me) is to be able to experience the thrill and speed of a racing car. Hence, race on Sunday, sell on Monday!
If you watch any modern racing series and enjoy the on-board videos, everything is paddle-shifted sequential manual gearboxes. So it makes sense that a modern fast street car would have that technology. Unfortunately, the A8 does not mimic this technology or feeling of control over the shift. For someone who loves the feeling and sound of a rev-matched downshift, downshifting an A8 is about as depressing an experience as you can have. Yes, it works well in auto mode, yes, it shifts quickly at WOT, but the response and feel from using the paddles is just weak. To me, it completely kills the car. Now, for those that don't care about the "feel" of the shift, it is fine. It is also the preferable choice for drag racers, which I completely understand. But I just don't understand how GM would think the A8 setup is good enough for a 2019 Corvette, especially if they have driven anything with a DCT or PDK gearbox, it boggles the mind.If GM offered the ZR1 with a DCT would I have chosen that over the M7? I do not think I would have, but I would've considered it. I think, in the end, I'd still go with a manual in a front engine Vette, it just feels "right" to me. However, with the upcoming C8, if there is a manual vs DCT option for an 800+ HP twin turbo mid-engine car, I may just go the other way.
For dinner dates the A8 is much nicer. Both have positives. Both have negatives.
The choice is a hard one.
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desmophile (04-01-2018)
12-26-2017, 07:31 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
I have a M7 Z07 & this fall took it to skyline drive & boy I did not know by not leaving early the traffic I would encounter. The clutch got hot & you could start smelling it after being in stop & go traffic for several hours. After that Im leaning towards the A8 but I do love my M7. If I do decide to go with the A8, those beautiful musical downshifts will truly be missed.
12-26-2017, 10:52 PM
#26
"Throttle blips" are simply a clever way to keep the engine speed in the best power range...something that is very useful for cars without massive amounts of torque (unlike the LT4).
IIRC, he was talking about the Z06, not the ZR1.
IIRC, he was talking about the Z06, not the ZR1.
12-26-2017, 11:03 PM
#27
I would hate to be one of the first few
Myself, I would be sweating bullets...I wish them luck.
12-27-2017, 08:59 AM
#28
So you would hate to be the "guinea pig" in a 19 ZR1 but you purchased a Z06 with a KNOWN issue when tracked. I'm thinking the ZR1 has seen vigerous track testing and will fair just fine.
12-27-2017, 09:56 AM
#29
Race Director
12-27-2017, 10:49 AM
#30
Burning Brakes
I seen videos on youtube where gm were doing a lot of testing at the Nurburgring with the ZR1. I don't know if they tested the Z06 like that.
12-27-2017, 11:09 AM
#31
Race Director
The throttle blip you get from the Active Rev Matching when you downshift is to match the revs to the faster engine speed required in the lower gear.
When you downshift without the rev match/throttle blip, when you release the clutch pedal you'll get a jerk in the power train that creates a very unsettling lurch that really upsets the car. If you downshift with no rev matching throttle blip, when you release the clutch pedal the lower than required rpm will jerk the drive train that is essentially like a quick jab of the brakes at the rear wheels that can really mess with your contact patch.
The ARM lets you downshift while braking so that you don't even notice any change in car dynamics.
I'm very good at heel-and-toe throttle blipping after doing it since I started driving my dad's VW Beetle many decades ago, but I LUV the ARM - it gives you the perfect throttle blip for a completely smooth downshift while braking hard.
It has nothing to do with keeping engine speed in the best power range, it simply increases revs so that when you let out the clutch pedal after you downshift there won't be any jerking or lurching that will upset the car.
.
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12-27-2017, 11:10 AM
#32
A third??
Do you have a link?
I might be in the minority here, but I find the paddles fun.
I watch a LOT of racing on TV (IMSA and F1).
The paddles allow me to get in touch with my inner racecar driver.
At the time I bought mine, there was controversy regarding the actual existence of overheating.
Of course now it is accepted as common knowledge.
The talk then was even if it did overheat, it would be a relatively easy fix courtesy of GM.
Again, we now know differently.
OK, thanx for the update.
Do you have a link?
I might be in the minority here, but I find the paddles fun.
I watch a LOT of racing on TV (IMSA and F1).
The paddles allow me to get in touch with my inner racecar driver.
Of course now it is accepted as common knowledge.
The talk then was even if it did overheat, it would be a relatively easy fix courtesy of GM.
Again, we now know differently.
01-28-2018, 05:46 PM
#33
Drifting
Member Since: Feb 2005
Location: Huntington Beach California
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I'm really surprised that there is not more concern over use of the same A8 torque converter transmission in the ZR1 as in the ZO6. A change in Hardware (stronger parts?) and software (crisper shifts?) will not put this transmission on par with the responsiveness and overall operation of a dual-clutch unit. If you have ever driven a newer AMG car you will know what I'm talking about. Cooling issues aside, it seems that many ZO6 owners and many magazine reviewers have been dissatisfied with the reaction time of the A8. GM merely indicating that the new A10 transmission will not fit in the ZR1 hardly seems like a reasonable response under the circumstances. This coupled with the fact that we basically have an upgraded Camaro ZL1 motor (supercharged and not twin-turbocharged) in the premium sports car that will be replaced by the C8 in less than a year (or later for the performance version) gives me pause before sinking my $130000 plus tax. It will be interesting to see how demand holds up after the initial wave of orders. It will be a fantastic car and I have owned several Corvettes, including two ZO6 Corvettes, but I am in a wait-and-see approach on this one.
Last edited by Mako7; 01-28-2018 at 05:49 PM.
01-29-2018, 12:47 AM
#34
Melting Slicks
Hi Folks,
Does anybody know if the A8 on ZR1 is the same as it is on Z06?
I have a deposit on a ZR1 and I know the options I like, but I can’t decide on M7 VS A8. My 2016 Z06 was A8 and as much as I loved it, I didn't care for the transmission specially compared to my European cars. The dual clutch on my GTS or Cali T is very quick/crisp and the down shifts and rev matching sound awesome! On Z06, there was barley any throttle blip in downshifts and shifts were slow. Overall I prefer a good DCT to manual.
ZR1 is not going to be my daily drive and on average, I will track it once a month. I understand A8 is quicker on the track, but I am not trying to set any record, I track for fun, not competition.
Does anybody know if the A8 on ZR1 is the same as it is on Z06?
I have a deposit on a ZR1 and I know the options I like, but I can’t decide on M7 VS A8. My 2016 Z06 was A8 and as much as I loved it, I didn't care for the transmission specially compared to my European cars. The dual clutch on my GTS or Cali T is very quick/crisp and the down shifts and rev matching sound awesome! On Z06, there was barley any throttle blip in downshifts and shifts were slow. Overall I prefer a good DCT to manual.
ZR1 is not going to be my daily drive and on average, I will track it once a month. I understand A8 is quicker on the track, but I am not trying to set any record, I track for fun, not competition.
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chevyfanatic (06-11-2018)
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chevyfanatic (06-23-2018)
04-01-2018, 02:13 AM
#37
Racer
The stock non-tuned A8 has a fuel cutoff guys so you actually go forward when it cuts out. the stock tuning is a POS Do you guys know that ?
Thanks to Aaron now my A8 acts like a DC trans. It will never be as fast but its light years ahead of the stock garbage GM TCM tuning.
Another thing is there is never a DS to 2nd with the A8. it jumps to first cause the TCM has 2nd and 1st DS at the same speed. Another BS thing GM did. Aaron fixed that to so that on an auto DS it goes into 2nd not 1st. Again I am purely talking about Paddle mode.
I would not know about AFM cause its all been deleted since i am running pure E85 now and pushing 800 plus hp which is really too much for the car. Wont even hook now.
06-07-2018, 08:43 PM
#38
Wait till you need to replace the clutch plates in a DCT - bring plenty of money. Remember, DCT's are computer controlled manual transmissions. Did you forget that "manual transmissions" all have clutch plates.
06-23-2018, 07:33 PM
#39
Racer
or did he say if I have to tell you I will kill you. lol
06-23-2018, 07:34 PM
#40
Racer