'06 Quicksilver Z06

Adding Ludicrous to a PxxD is nothing like sending a Vette to Callaway.

Ludicrous was added to my car for $5,000.00 and my warranty is with Tesla. No parts of my warranty are with an aftermarket "tuner".

At this price point, many P85D Insane cars were converted to Ludicrous.

Callaways are much more scarce among Vettes than are Ludicrous equipped Teslas amongst PxxD Teslas.

Show me a PxxD Tesla, and it's owner has probably gone to the trouble of getting the underline either as a factory order or manufacturer's upgrade or "retrofit".

Again, you'll know by seeing the underline in its badging. Or on its gauge cluster. Or on its control screen, there will be a selection for two modes. "Sport" and "Ludicrous" vs "Sport" and "Insane".

A Tesla Model S or Model X PxxD Insane, can be upgraded to Ludicrous in a matter of hours.

Tesla picked my car up at my home by flatbed, dropped off a loaner, a Model S P85+(not the "D". This was the rear wheel drive version which was the performance version preceding the "D" or "dual motor AWD versions), and retuned my car, upgraded to Ludicrous, within 48 hours for that $5,000.00.

Ludicrous was a $10k option on a factory P90D or a $10k upgrade charge on an existing P90D Insane.

The 0-60 specs for those two variants are 0-60 in 2.85 seconds for the P85D and 2.8 seconds for the P90D as per Tesla.

However the P90D underwent at least two revisions of its battery over its lifespan making the later versions of the P90D quicker than the original versions.

To your other points, well there will always be something or someone quicker or faster.

My only point here was to let you know that any Ludicrous equipped Tesla, not just the P100D, is extremely quick off the line.

tbrenny33

thank you. Wow, very impressive still capable of max times even with 30% of the battery depleted.

'06 Quicksilver Z06

You're welcome

You can also look at his dash and see the battery % left after each oh his runs.

Knowing what % he started with and ended up with afteythe max acceleration pull will tell you how much juice it took.

JoesC5

Just to clear up any misunderstanding. When you send your car to Callaway, it retains it's full GM warranty on all the original GM components and the Callaway added components are covered by Callaway's warranty. A Callaway car has full warranty.

Out of the 30,622 S's Tesla sold in 2016 how do you know what percentage are ludicrous equipped? Tesla does not release that info, so it appears there is no way you would be able to even come close to guessing how many of those 30,622 are ludicrous cars. Just because you equipped your Tesla with ludicrous doesn't mean that everyone or even 50%, or even 10%, or even 1% did their Tesla.


Can you equip a 60 RWD with Ludicrous? How a 60D AWD? How about a 75 RWD? How about a 75D AWD? Do you have any idea how many of those 30,622 that were sold were 60 RWD or a 60D AWD or a 75 RWD or a 75D AWD?

For 2017 can any version besides the P90D and the P100D be converted to Ludicrous? I would think that if every Tesla S that Tesla sold was equipped with Ludicrous then they wouldn't offer any models other than a Ludicrous equipped car.

That's like saying every C7 sold is a Z06 with Z07 and A8, when most C7's are not. Just because a C7 Z06 with a Z07 with a A8 can do 0-60 in 2.95 seconds doesn't mean all the tens of thousands of C7's sold can do 0-60 in 2.95 seconds. Just like with the Tesla, if everyone only wanted a Z06 with Z07 and a A8, GM would not offer the Stingray or the Grand Sport, of which neither can run 0-60 in 2.95 seconds.

Not every Corvette owner is willing to pay north of $110k for a Z06 with Z07 and a A8 nor does every Tesla owner want to pay north of $150K for a P100D Ludicrous.

Callaway does not release their sales numbers, so there is no way you could guess how many there are out there. But I can say that two of my friends have a Callaway Corvette, but none of my friends have a Tesla, much less Tesla Ludicrous. Based on that small sampling of my personal friends, I would not dare to state that there are more Callaway's than Ludicrous' out there, as I have no idea how many of each there are actually in the wild.

'06 Quicksilver Z06

I stated what I did for a couple of reasons.

First off my warranty is with one entity. Tesla. The entire vehicle. Not parts of it.

If there is a problem with it, I don't have to go to a "Callaway Authorized Chevrolet Dealer" or any other "tuner's authorized dealer", or even contact or make arrangements for contact of a tuner's authorized dealership. Because a tuner didn't do the work on it.

It goes to any Tesla Service center for warranty work.

I also don't have a 3 year/36k mile warranty, like a Callaway warranty, but an 8 year, unlimited mile warranty on the car's power train.

Something goes wrong with it, Tesla comes to my house to fix it, or they flat bed it to their Service center and drop off a loaner at my front door.

If I owned a Callaway Corvette in western Pennsylvania, and it needed serviced, what are my options?

The Ludicrous addition to a pre existing car is a retrofit and I believe that Porsche offers something similar for the Panamera. The warranty is 100% factory and not divided up between two parties.

So no, in just this regard, having a Tesla retrofitted with Ludicrous, is not like sending a Vette to Callaway. Callway is not General Motors.

You still don't get it. You're still carrying on with the sales figures and sales breakdowns for a given year, when some of these cars are retrofitted with Ludicrous long after original purchase.

https://shop.teslamotors.com/collect...mode-pre-order

http://www.techtimes.com/articles/14...for-10-000.htm

My car was purchased in, and is, a 2015 and it has Ludicrous. It got Ludicrous approximately 1 year into my ownership of it. And it's not the only one.

I also know where it was in the queue at my Service Center, for the retrofit when I paid for it. There were plenty ahead of me and plenty behind me.

There are a lot of PxxD cars, not just the ones sold in some arbitrary calendar year that you decide to pick, which have been retrofitted with Ludicrous, or which came from the factory with it.

How many????

What's it matter should someone in here happen to run across one thinking as you've indicated to them, that as long as it wasn't one of those scarce P100Ds, that it won't be a challenge to a Corvette?

I'd advise anyone reading this exchange not to figure that.

And neither would you. Which is why with the information that I've given you, you may want to consider that you could end up alongside one and not even know it at first glance. It may have 21 inch wheels on it, or 19 inch wheels on it. It's red calipers will only tell you that it is a performance version of the car. But not whether it is a performance version with Insane, Ludicrous, or neither.

As mentioned before, the only visual clue you'll get is the underline beneath its rear deck badge.

Otherwise you won't be able to tell it is Ludicrous equipped by looking at the exterior of it.

But what exactly is your angle here Joe?

Is it "don't worry about Teslas because only a couple of them are P100Ds"?

That reminds me of '03-'04 SVT Cobra owners back in the day saying "don't worry about C5 Vettes because most of them aren't Z06s, but are usually automatics with 2.73 gears in them."

That's a weak route and a weak argument to take up. Especially considering that it doesn't take the most powerful Tesla variant to outrun a stock Vette in a straight line distance of about a quarter mile.

See above.

Who said otherwise?

Anyone who knows the exact number, won't tell you and anyone who tells you an exact number, doesn't know.

However that said, the point to my comments was to point out that your position that a Corvette owner need only be concerned with a P100D as its competition in a straight line metric such as 0-60, is false.

That is false. Any Tesla Model S PxxD equipped with Ludicrous, and not just the P100D, is as quick if not quicker 0-60 than a C7 Z06.

Finally I can say this. When the Ludicrous retrofit was initially offered, people were lining up to get it and it had to be rolled out in increments to meet the demand.

No. Why? Are you thinking of buying a Model S 60? Those aren't the ones that are most apt to outright challenge Vettes, Hellcats and such.

It has been my experience, in Tesla gatherings and such, that by and large, most of the owners of the more powerful variants of those cars, aren't as inclined towards the green agenda. They bought those cars, or retrofitted those cars for one reason. Power. Much the same as an ICE owner modifies his car for power, or buys the most powerful version of his car that he can find.

Most of the people I've come across with the most powerful variants of the Tesla, or who are attracted to it and inclined to purchase it, are either current or former gear heads,

Tesla performance version owners lust for power the same as ICE owners do. The only difference is that Tesla owners who lust for power in their cars, simply don't care where it comes from, what propellent was used to get it, nor whether it's measured in Horsepower, cubic inches or Kilowatts. The people putting up those crazy YouTube videos, don't impress me as, and probably aren't, typical green agenda folk.

I don't follow sales figures so much. For example I can't tell you how many red Cadillacs were sold in 2016.

But out of curiosity, how many of these cars that you mention have you actually happened across?

For 2017, the Model S P100D and the Model X P100D, the SUV version, may have Ludicrous.

The Model X P100D the SUV is stated to do 0-60 in 2.9 seconds.

Again, that's quicker than a lot of cars.

That's a reasonable assessment. Not all Teslas are equipped with Ludicrous. Nobody has stated such.

The point made is that any Ludicrous equipped Tesla, not just the P100D, is a formidable foe in a 0-60 or straight line metric to a Corvette. Even a C7 Z06.

Help me here. Wait a minute. Exactly what's like saying that every C7 sold is a Z06 with Z07 and A8?

I saw no one state that.

I believe you. Now who said otherwise?

Ok. I'll say this. You have a knack for stating the obvious.

I believe you. But as already pointed out, it doesn't take that kind of money to end up with a Tesla which will compete flat out in the quarter with many a powerful car, being sold today, including Corvettes, and without paying for a single drop of gasoline to do it.

It's moot. Callaway has been modifying Corvettes since the C3. The first I heard of Reeves Callaway, was back in the late 70's early 80's. And Callaway Corvette goes back 30 years to 1987.

Your statement was that having a Tesla retrofitted with Ludicrous by the manufacturer, was like sending a Vette to Callaway for modifications.

No. Apples and oranges comparison for reasons already stated.

But I say all of the above, to say this.

I will not be surprised at all to see a hybrid version of the C8. The instant torque of electric motors, offers up too much performance capability to pass up, and I don't think that Chevy will continue for much longer in passing it up in the Corvette.

Johnny Mayday

I think you're right here, in that Corvette would follow Audi's approach regarding AWD. I still think we're unlikely to see AWD initially, though. I'm wondering more about a proper dual-clutch gearbox.

tbrenny33

I don't think its anything to brag about to have to put the car on a flat bed and have it shipped off as opposed to be able to bring it to your local dealer! Has Tesla reliability gotten better? I know a few years ago consumer reports had them as one of the worst, I would guess that has been cleaned up. It's funny how many mustang, camaro and corvette guys think hybrid or electric is some green "hippy" thing! Hybrid is where most sports cars are going to go, you gain ability to be pure electric/high city MPG but have serious performance. I don't see pure electric being in sports cars for a while, its simply too heavy and to offset that weight its extremely expensive. I personally have some real questions about electric cars long term.

'06 Quicksilver Z06

No brag, just fact. I certainly can take it to them should I need to.

Both of these are within driving distance for me.

This one has been open for awhile now.
https://www.tesla.com/findus/locatio...ice/pittsburgh

And this one is not far from me either. About 88 miles. This one did my Ludicrous retrofit.
https://www.tesla.com/findus/location/service/lyndhurst

My car has been flatbedded to the Cleveland SC once. And that was for it's Ludicrous retrofit which I paid for.

My point was that for 5 grand, they picked up my car, dropped off a loaner did the Ludicrous retrofit, brought my car back to me upon completion less than 48 hrs later and picked up their loaner.

That's service. They certainly didn't have to do that. This wasn't a warranty repair but a purchase. And a loaner and flatbed were not agreed upon in that 5k cost. But they threw those in.

My sunroof had a wind leak. They came to my house and adjusted it.

The car developed a worn swaybar bushing resulting in a squeak on certain type turns on backing up.

They came to my house and replaced both swaybar bushings.

All of the above under warranty.

My car has been in for a routine service by them once and I took it in.

But to your point, I'd much rather have my car picked up from my home or office, a loaner delivered to me while my car was being serviced, and then my car delivered back to me. And I'd even pay extra for that.

I don't particularly care for dealership "sign ins" and waiting rooms.

No, I'd like for you to come and get this car, leave me a loaner, do what it needs, and bring it back when you're done. I don't even care if you figure that service into the price if it's a non warranty matter.

Another local owner I know had a door alignment issue that he was dissatisfied with. They picked his up and left him a loaner too.

Mine has been one of the most reliable vehicles I've ever owned.

Also had I put a lot of stock onto CU reliability testing results, I would have missed out on buying and enjoying multiple Corvettes and Cadillacs. Two brands that I'd buy again without hesitation were I in the market for an ICE vehicle.

I'm with you in that we will probably see hybrids in sports cars first.

But with the performance capabilities of electric motors, I think it's just a matter of time before we start to see a sports car make use of that capability.

Jake5670

sunsalem

FWIW (about 2 cents), I believe a ME hybrid will be labelled first as a Cadillac.
A Corvette version will come later...2021 at the earliest.

theboom

To everyone acting like the tesla is everything, please just stop. All it can do is 0-60, THATS IT. The quarter mile is just a result of the 0-60. Fastest quarter for a stock p100d was around 10.6 at about 122-124mph. Tesla is TRASH at any performance aspect that does not start at 0. It gets beat from a roll by cars with worse power to weight ratios, braking and cornering sucks, lap times suck, it overheats and slows down after barely driving it hard, at high power levels the battery dies very fast, and takes well over an hour to charge it in the fastest supercharger.

To anyone that brings up the fact that it's a sedan just don't. Everything I just said will apply to ICE super sedans as well.

Quicksilver, I'm sorry but I've gotten to the point where if I see you post I just ignore it because you are one of the biggest electric/tesla/self driving fanboys ever.

Im not a tesla/electric hater and I'm looking forward to some of the crazy things electric can do but we are NOT ready for it yet in anything other that commuter cars.

'06 Quicksilver Z06

Whether you are or or not ignoring this, there are a few statements that you make above which require rebuttal, so that anyone else seeing them will know.

Nobody said that you were a "hater".

But you can't set aside the fact that it's a 5,000lb sedan that you plug in and as such, a 2.5 ton sedan that "runs by batteries". It has a better than 300 mile range , and is currently available for purchase. The above would probably lead most to believe that it has absolutely no business whatsoever competing with, let alone beating, any premier sports car in ANY traditionally recognized performance metric, let alone 0-60 and quarter mile. And can do that multiple times. That sort of tech is a game changer.

The fact that it can, is testament to the benefits of near instant torque in an electric vehicle. An asset which is sure to find it's way into bona fide sports cars as time progresses. And possibly the C8.

Trying to discount any of that, is sour grapes. But it is odd to see you talking about a 7 seater sedan and "lap times" and trying to hold that against it. A 7 seater, 2.5 ton battery powered mass production sedan, is not supposed to be able to compete with a pure bred sports car in any performance metric at all, including straight line from a dig.

I've been around and have owned ICE vehicles all of my life. And in traditional automotive circles, it goes without saying that this type performance capability and in a non ICE vehicle is not going to sit well with some from that group. But I won't refer to them as haters or fanboys. That's derogatory.

For the record, I've had very little to say about "self driving" and really do not care much for it.

Secondly, to your part in bold above, that's a half truth. How long an EV takes to charge, is a function of what state of charge the battery is in when charging is started as well as whether the charging source is direct current or alternating current.

It's not common practice to drive around in an EV until the battery "dies" any more than it is common for ICE vehicle owners to drive around until the gas tank is "empty".

Finally to your last sentence, I don't think you'll have to wait long to see what you say that you want to see. And with regard to you point on commuter vehicles, I would agree to a point, and it of course already exists in commuter cars.

I do believe though that as other companies might be forward, that we will start to see this tech and watch it become more refined in sports cars aside those which have been available from Tesla, Mercedes, BMW and McLaren

Im hoping that the next Corvette makes use of this capability and technology. I've seen first hand what it can do for at least two metrics of many. Flat out acceleration and fuel economy. If the Corvette can make use of this while maintaining and strengthening its grip on other performance metrics, handling, braking, then I look forward to seeing a Corvette hybrid in the next rendition of the car. With the Corvette's weight, you'd be talking a car capable of repeated low 10s just by mashing the accelerator pedal. I'll be first in line to purchase it.

JoesC5

Did you know that not every Tesla is a P100D Ludicrous. If everyone was just purchasing the P100D Ludicrous, then why is Tesla making the other models? Just like with the Corvette, more people drive a C7 StingRay than a Z06, so I can't claim that every C7 on the road runs 0-60 in 2.95 seconds just because a Z06 A8 will.

As for your "better than 300 mile range" claim, that is a partial truth.

Looking at Tesla's website, the following ranges are listed.

At 70 MPH on a 90 degree day.....

60------------202 miles.
60D----------207 miles.
75-----------244 miles.
75D---------253 miles.
90D---------279miles.
100D-------324 miles.
P100D------311 miles.

That's only 2 of 7 models that will run over 300 miles while cruising at the speed limit at 90 degrees. That's 28.5% of the models Tesla makes but I bet the 100D and the P100D make up far less than 28.5% of the Tesla's actually on the road, being driven across Kansas on a summer vacation trip.

Up the speed to 80 when it's 105 degrees while rolling across Kansas in July(For every tesla you see rolling across Kansas in July, I bet several hundred non Tesla's are seen, every day), and I doubt you will run from Kansas City, Kansas to Quinter, Kansas(311 miles) without stopping for a long "fill up' of electrons in the vast majority of Tesla's that are actually on the road(and not just being driven in a magazine review). More than likely, it's a 75 that you will see on the highway and it will be lucky to run 225 miles at 80 MPH on a 105 degree day.

I actually have driven my Z06 across Kansas at 80 MPH on a 105 degree day while on vacation and I can drive from Kansas City, KS to Burlington, Colorado(448 miles) and still have 2 gallons of gas reserve in my tank. No having to stop in Salina, KS(173 miles) and have to kill a bunch of time while waiting for my tank to be filled with electrons, because I can't make it to Hays, KS(275 miles).

The problem with Tesla's claims of range is that they aren't worth a dam if there is not charging station located at the particular point where you need some "electrons". At least with my ICE Z06, there are hundreds of gas stations where I can fill up my Z06 along any route I care to take, anywhere in the US) instead of 2 or 3 charging stations(if you are lucky) for you EV Tesla.

Oh, and as the video shows, when I'm down to 2 gallons(10%) in my 18 gallon gas tank I can whip off a quicker 0-60 than your P100D Ludicrous can with 10% remaining in your P100D Ludicrous "gas tank", and a C7 StingRay can whip off a quicker 0-60 than a Tesla 75 that is fully charged.

'06 Quicksilver Z06

This is a straw man argument Joe. One more time.......Nobody ever said that all Teslas are P100D cars. But you keep trying to build your argument around the "not every Tesla can run like a P100D" statement. Nobody ever said that they could. Not every GM offering can run like a Z06. But again, nobody ever said that this was the case. However, more importantly, and the point which should be taken, is that the P100D is not the only Tesla out there which is extremely quick off the line. You seem to think that it is.

Any Tesla Model S PxxD equipped with Ludicrous, and not just the P100D, is as quick if not quicker from a dig than many of the cars on the road today, including stock Corvettes at all trim levels.

See above, the Tesla under primary discussion here is the P100D and it's accomplishments.

The Model S60 and Model S60D are out of production as of 4/16/2017. That leaves the Model S75, the Model S75D, the Model S 90D, the Model S100D and the Model S P100D. 2 out of the 5 have a better than 300 mile range.

On a side note, it is becoming the practice of some of those PxxD owners to debadge those cars so that those like yourself, who run across them thinking that they are Model S 60s, will get the surprise of their lives.

I'm hoping that you have such the occasion to run across one of them.

448 miles? Personally, I wouldn't "drive" any vehicle that kind of distance in 105* heat, as I prefer to fly such distances. My time is worth something.

But for those who like to make nearly 900 mile round trip drives, or more, well then an ICE vehicle would be the better choice.

That's around 6hrs straight, trapped behind the wheel of a car, without getting out to even so much as take a whiz or a dump, and without eating a crumb or stretching your legs. It's about 12 hours cooped up in a car round trip. Drive 896 miles round trip and call that a "vacation"? Each to his own, but for me, I don't think so. I wouldn't even consider it. That's not a "vacation" to me.

That kind of distance, I'll fly.

Apples and oranges.

The "road trip" in a car, is becoming a thing of the past for myself and no doubt many others. The distances you're talking, I'll fly anyway. Get to where I'm going, rested, have a drink on the flight, and still have a good part of that vacation day, or night, left to enjoy.

I can leave out of the Kansas City MO airport which is less than 20 miles from Kansas City Kansas, and park my car at the airport and it will be waiting for me and fully charged when I get back.

http://www.flykci.com/parking/electr...ging-stations/

No way I waste two vacation days of a 7 day vacation, going to and from my destination and spending those two days of my vacation behind the wheel of a car. I don't care if that car is a Rolls Royce.

Well 10% would be 1.8 gallons, but who's counting?

But what you're describing right there.....I don't see as a huge advantage and selling point.

Let me see and make sure that I am following your argument and point here.

So with just 1.8 gallons of fuel left, instead of looking for more gasoline, you'll be ripping off 0-60 records against any takers?

OK.

And a Tesla Model S 75 can whip off a quicker 0-60 than a Chevy Cruze.

Why don't we compare current performance models against current performance models?

When we do that, we see that the P100D is quicker to 60 than anything GM offers.

phantasms

Quicksilver I think I love you.

NemesisC5

FWIW, both McLaren P1 and LaFerrari are both mild hybrid ME rear wheel drive platforms and are no slouch around the roadcourses. GM's ME platform will likely arrive with a mild hybrid system and rear wheel drive. A well setup RWD platform can put in a fast lap as evident by the Mercedes/AMG recent lap. The most recent iterations of active handling and active aero are game changers and will be leveraged on top level track performers along with mild hybrid systems until batteries come down in weight and cost and go up in capacity.

'06 Quicksilver Z06

True.

And in conjunction with that, I don't think that aGM is going to have any choice but to improve the next version top tier Corvette's straight line performance capability.

One way or another.

Especially now that the Dodge Demon is out.

sunsalem

The Caddy ME will be a hybrid similar to the NSX...there, I said it.

Michael A

This is great. If I never had to go to a dealer again, I would be very happy. Plus I wouldn't have to worry that some kid took my car out for joy ride while it was at the dealer.

Michael

JoesC5

But, in the real world, we normally have to take our cars to a service center at some point in time.

While some(a few) Tesla owners might live in close proximity to a Tesla service center, most car owners in the USA do not live next door to a Tesla service center.

I live in a fairly rural area of the country in a town of ~150,000. I don't have a Tesla dealer here in Springfield, Missouri, but I do have Cadillac, BMW, Audi, Lexus, Mercedes, Infinity, Acura, and Porsche dealers within the Springfield city limits(and a million other brands of autos also). I can get my $80,000 Z06 serviced at seven Chevrolet dealers within a 40 mile radius(three within a 10 mile radius) of my home. I can't do that with a $80,000 Tesla.

I can't imagine trying to sell(or trade in) a used Tesla here in Springfield, MO. Most people buying a used car want one that they can get serviced without shipping it around 200 miles to either Kansas City or St Louis.