roadbike56

Only a few weeks ago, we all knew that the ZR1 (or updated Z06) was going to be announced in late July, early August 2017 as a 2018 model. Then we knew that the mid-engine Corvette would be announced around the end of 2018 as a model year 2019 or it would be announced in 2019 as a 2020 model (despite the predictions of the rags for a 2016 and 2017 announcement for the ME). And all was right with the world.
However, the window to announce a 2018 model is rapidly closing. It appears the ZR1 will be announced in 2018 as a 2019 model. This impacts the timeline for the mid-engine car because GM isn't going to spend all that development cost for the ZR1 only to market it for a few months in late 2018 early 2019, while announcing a mid-engine Corvette. They'll want at least a full year of marketing the pricey ZR1 before the ME car is even announced. Something has to give. So either the mid-engine won't be announced until 2020 as a 2021 model, or it's going to be a (gasp) 2019 Cadillac and the ZR-1 will be announced to give something to the Corvette faithful.
Just want to mention, as I recall, the panel manufacturer is supposed to have their plant expansion on line by some time in 2019, possibly late 2018. So a 2019 model or latest, 2020 seems likely, not a 2021.
Any thoughts on this?

vetteman41960

Have to agree sadly. The timeline for intro of the mid engine seems a long way off.

I had really hoped we would see it at the Detroit Auto show in January of 2018 as a 2019 avaliable late 2018.

I also had hoped unlike many of my fellow Vette loyalists that the mid engine would be the Vette flagship and not come in with a base mid rear engine car starting in the 80k price range to compete with Porsche Cayman & Base 911.

I was hoping that the mid rear engine would be the pinical of the Corvette line up with the base C7 starting at the 60k mark then the 75k for the Grand Sport 90 to 100k for the Z06 and 125k for the C7ZR1 and finally a world class rear mid engine flagship with 700hp at 150k and up.

That is one reason I think the car might be a Cadillac then GM will have a flagship for their Flagship brand and Not risk losing Corvette customer who will want to hold off on buying a C7 once the Mid rear engine is announced.

Could be a win win GM has Chevy announce at Detroit Auto show in January of 2018 the ZR1 as a 2019 model due in the middle of 2018.

Then announce the Cadillac at the same show as a flagship of the Cadillac lineup going on sale as a 2019 in late 2018.

I say win win because they don't upset the traditional Corvette buyer who loves the Vette and thinks it should remain a front mid engine rear wheel drive GT car with lot of storage space and traditional V8 engine. Chevy get 2 or 3 more years out of the C7 and a larger return on investment in that platform and Cadillac get its flagship and start selling in 2018.

WIN win for GM. Honestly I don't care if it's a Vette or a Cadillac. I love my 2016 z06/ z07 Callaway SC757. I also know that this front engine rear drive platform is maxed out with 757hp & 777 ft of torque.

I just want to be able to buy an AMERICAN MADE rear mid engine supercar produced by GM.

I also think the problem of selling a 150k is easier to address at a Cadillac dealership than it would be at Chevrolet dealership.

I can unequivocally say the I would have liked a better dealership experience when I spent 130k on my Callaway .

So I was initially hoping for a Vette. Never owned a Cadillac before. Now I think the chances of getting a world class supercar from GM sooner will be if it is a Cadillac.

I wonder how Chevy would introduce a mid engine platform and not make it the flagship of Covette?

Chevrolet has for 7 generation started with a base and then brought on high performance models as the platform aged.

This time it would be different as I Do not think they would risk scraping the C7 front engine platform for the rear mid engine.

I think those that say they will sell both are thinking like I think. As a businessman why kill the cash cow to take a chance that everyone will like buffalo better than beef?? So you offer them both.

I am interested in what all you guys think.

Will it come out as a Chevy and start out with a base model selling along side the C7 or does it come out as the Chevy Flagship right of the bat and then Chevy offer a cheaper vs down the road??

Or is it really a Cadillac and not a Corvette that will be built at Bowling Green?

Cadillac GENERAL manager did intro the Audi R8 as Audi's flagship when he ran that company. I think GM would love to follow that same path as Audi from range topping super car to luxury suv and sedans.

Steve Garrett

First of all, we did NOT know that the ZR1 would be announced in July or August....that was pure speculation and Forum rumors.


You'll probably see the ZR1 announcement in January at NAIAS.

jimmyb

Cadillac has got enough problems. NONE of their CARS (not SUV's) sell at anything approaching M-B/Audi/BMW/Lexus levels. To throw a high priced mid-engine sports car into that mix accomplishes nothing. Contrary to what folks think, high priced "HALO" sports cars MIGHT drive showroom traffic (tire kickers) but no one pops into an Audi dealership to look at the R8 and then walk out the door with an A6. To squander 50+ years of "Sneak peak....THE mid-engine Corvette is on the way" because the Cadillac (formerly Audi) chief WANTS the mid-engine car makes no sense. And folks conveniently forget that the 1st gen R8 was pretty easy (re: inexpensive) to develop since it was based on the existing Lamborghini Gallardo (which had been out for years).

FWIW, I think they are going to intro the C7 ZR1 at Los Angeles in early December (going on sale 1st quarter 2018), then show the mid-engine car at Detroit in January 2018 (going on sale Fall 2019). I have ZERO facts to back this up (or any of the rest I just wrote!!!!)

sunsalem

This delay in releasing info on these 2 cars has me wondering if they haven't hit a snag or two...everything coming at us has been at a snail's pace.

The supposed "ZR1" car is simply a faster, trackier version of the Z06.
It doesn't require different architecture...it's just bolt-ons.

Information on the C8 (ME) has been zilch.
GM has been designing a ME since pre-bankruptcy days (according to Bob Lutz).
No need to reinvent the wheel at this point.
It is strange and somewhat suspicious it's taking such a long time for news about this car to make it to the public at large.

It could very well be that GM's current financial situation is playing a part in all of this.
For example, it may have been decided the life of the C7 is to be extended until things improve.

Bill Dearborn

The ZR1 will be manufactured concurrently with the Mid Engine car. That is why they are putting a flexible manufacturing system in place. You will see two versions of the ME Car (Corvette and Cadillac shades of the XLR) and the ZR1. C7 ZR1 may be the only C7 sold but original comments seen in the magazines at least 18 months ago stated the C7 would be produced concurrently with the C8 for 2 years.

Bill

Achmed

lol even in 2014 there were magazine "rumours" that a mid engine C8 would debut in 2017, some called it unrealistic, too soon, etc...then as every year passed the rumour would get pushed ahead by one year - "the 2018 mid-engine C8," "the 2019 mid-engine C8," - the 2020...lol.

It'll likely happen but why some people still think it's imminent is beyond me.

The ZL1 1LE was spotted without tarp and only camo numerous times in the summer of 2016 and it was finally released as a 2018 model. Now we're seeing this "ZR1" in similar fashion in the summer of 2017, so likely it'll be a 2019 model....meaning whatever mid engine car is under tarp right now I agree will be at least a 2010 ME.

And if it's 2020 no way will it be a C8, that would make only a 6 year C7 run.

roadbike56

I completely agree, but it will be a 2019 which means the ME, if it's a Corvette, won't be introduced until 2020 as a 2021 assuming it's priced at the same level as the ZR1 (or lower).

Bill, No argument that the C7 and the ME will be co-manufactured, that's well known. But if the ME Corvette is manufactured at the same time as the ZR1 it will be priced much higher than the ZR1. If that's true, then I see your point. They could both be introduced in the next two years as they are not direct competitors.

You make a very good point. I hope this is not the case, but it's certainly a possibility.

vetteb_96C

I don't think there is a delay with anything. I feel the ZR1 was always planned to be released at the 2018 Detroit Auto Show as a 2019MY. The mid-engine car was always a 2020 or 2021. This forum gets impatient and starts wild speculation.

The Mid-engine car will be priced higher than the ZR1. It will be at the top of the Corvette food chain. Those who think the ME car is going to be an affordable every mans Corvette is mistaken.

sunsalem

Questions:
Will the ME be the C8?
Will the Corvette and Cadillac versions be released at the same time?
Everyone seems to overlook the fact the ZR1 will be a low volume car.
Like the C6 version, there won't be a lot of takers...due to price and other things (like the Big A$$ Wing, etc.).



I don't know why so many missed this little tidbit of info but following the lead of its competitors GM said awhile back model generations will be shorter going forward.

Sure, like all of the recent Corvette generations, there will be variously priced models of the Corvette.
However, there is no reason to think the base ME will come in at the ZR1's asking price.

Neither do I.

Glenn Quagmire

I tend to agree with you.

GM has A LOT riding on the development of an ME car and it needs to be well sorted long before it lands. Keep in mind that most of the lucky few with a new FGT allocation, still have no idea when they will see a car.

Paulchristian

we wont see the rear mid-engine car debut until at least 2020 as a 2001 MY. Introducing it would kill C7 sales. That would basically amount to deliberately compete against themselves

ANTIVNOM

I agree with your logic. The delay on the ZR1 means GM is having to sweat some details as they cannot afford that sort of halo car to have the cooling issues some of the Z06s have had. I think the same is true of the C8. There will be HUGE expectations if it is an all new mid-engine model. They cannot afford to screw it up, ESPECIALLY if the mid engine pushes the price up significantly. They get one chance to get it right, and only one. Screw up, and that could be the nail in the coffin.

I also think the C7 ZR1 complicates things a bit for the C8. Whatever it does the C8 will have to trump, and that will not be an easy chore.

sunsalem

Not necessarily...there are plenty of old school FE Corvette guys who might not take kindly to an ME.

tbrenny33

I'm with you, I think they show off the ZR1 in LA then I hope the ME at Detroit. I don't think they care at all about selling them side by side, all they see is pick one and we make money no matter what. I have no reason to believe the first ME will be a cadillac. All performance at GM for recent history (last decade) has started with corvette and trickled down. I don't see why that would change now. To touch on the dealer experience, I owed a cts-v and I honestly didn't think the cadillac experience was any better then my current chevy experience. In my area chevy has remodeled most the dealerships and the experience to me has been pretty similar.

LT4_CE

I agree that the window is rapidly closing, if not already closed, for a 2018 ZR1. However, what if it's announced at Corvettes at Carlisle in a few days? That would leave a reasonable production run for a 2018 model year ZR1. The ME could be announced some time after that for the 2019 model year. Impatient? Probably so. Likely? Perhaps not. But based on rumors and spy photos the ZR1 seems pretty well ready to go. (I know... rumors and spy photos should NOT be used to form any opinion, even a speculative opinion.)

Has Chevy ever introduced a new Corvette variation after a current model year production run has started? If not, I'd say they probably won't do it now. So likely the ZR1 would be for the 2019 model year. But as Brandt said in the Big Lebowski, "Well dude, we just don't know."

Aerovette

C5 - 1997 - 2004 ... so it is possible.

Maybe all the tail light pissing and moaning got to them.

LT4_CE

C2: 1963 - 1967. A five year model run. Bottom line? Chevy will do whatever it thinks will allow them to turn the most profit. This *is* America, after all!

I think the tail light issue is put to rest. The complainers make a lot of noise, but the popularity of the C7 has, at least temporarily, killed round (or round-ish) tail lights, imo.

sunsalem

Amen on the killing of the round taillights.
The backend view of the C7 is very stylish.

LT1 Z51

Most certainly they were delays.

Mid-engine was originally a 2017 and there was no ZR1.

The program had issues with the powertrain and transmission, so it was delayed. Then the world turned upside down. Ford announced the GT350, Dodge announced the Hellcat. The program HAD to adjust. GM wanted a Flat Plane Crank and 700 HP now. Before it had been an NA DOHC making 650-675 (not much more than the Z06).

Then while that was just getting going. Ford dropped a bomb, the new GT. All of a sudden Corvette Racing had a problem as well. The ZR1 was created as a short term solution. The Mid-Engine was recast AGAIN. It was around this time the Z/28 Camaro was replaced with the ZR1 1LE as a Z/28 has to have an NA engine and the NA engine for the Mid-Engine now needed to make at least 750 because the ZR1 (an LT4 with a bigger supercharger) was going to push 725+ HP.

However durability issues with the new engines and the transmission on the ME caused those programs to slip another year to work out the bugs. Who knows if the Demon will cause GM to revisit more HP for the ZR1 and ME...