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Old 10-12-2017, 12:52 PM   #1
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Default 2019 Corvette News

Just in from Chevrolet


CORVETTE

January is an early changeover to 19 Model Year

Carry over vehicle, no major changes

2018 Model Year Key dates:

Unallocated sold order cut off 10/27/17
Final Consensus Nov cycle 1
Final Dealer Order Submission Process 11/16/17

2019 Model Year Key dates:

Order Guide published 11/20/17

Order WorkBbench opens 11/23/17

First Dealer Order Submission Process 11/30/17 (Nov cycle 2)

Start Of Retail Production 1/29/18
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Old 10-12-2017, 01:25 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Just in from Chevrolet


CORVETTE

January is an early changeover to 19 Model Year

Carry over vehicle, no major changes

2018 Model Year Key dates:

Unallocated sold order cut off 10/27/17
Final Consensus Nov cycle 1
Final Dealer Order Submission Process 11/16/17

2019 Model Year Key dates:

Order Guide published 11/20/17

Order WorkBbench opens 11/23/17

First Dealer Order Submission Process 11/30 (Nov cycle 2)

Start Of Retail Production 1/29/17
Thanks for the info... for us that don't speak dealer talk, can you elaborate more on what this means?
Thanks!
Fred
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Old 10-12-2017, 03:19 PM   #3
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>C7 refresh with ZR1-esque fascia, A10, etc.. as holdover until mid engine car goes into production, thereby making more resources and focus available for development of mid engine car?

>C8 development continues as front engine platform to be sold alongside mid engine yet to be named (Zora?) halo car?

It was said by someone at some time on CF that C7 would continue selling alongside mid engine car for ~2 years. As time moves forward and other manufacturers best the "meaningless " Nurburgring Nordschleife times the performance bar continues to be raised. If GM is to succeed at selling the mid engine car on the European continent they will need to address the number of legitimate or perceived negative opinions of the Corvette. IMHO this will push the MSRP of the car to ~$150K or more to offer the depth of quality, craftsmanship and refined performance of the Porsche GT2 RS at ~$200K.

I can't see GM making the mid engine car (Zora?) as THE ONLY HIGH PERFORMANCE CAR above the Camaro ZL1 or Camaro ZL1-1LE. A front engine Corvette appeals to a large demographic on performance, quality and price and I see it continuing. I could be wrong and that's of no concern to me as I'm excited to see the mid engine car move closer to reality and the performance bar raised by manufacturers year after year.
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Old 10-12-2017, 07:28 PM   #4
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So it looks like there won't be a C7 ZR1, just a re-do of the Z06 with a new nose/better cooling/revised aero/poss a bit more power?
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:04 PM   #5
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What makes you think that?


It's obvious these camoed "ZR1s" we've been seeing for quite awhile are substantially different from the current Z06.
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Old 10-12-2017, 08:17 PM   #6
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I hope you're right.

I was simply taking this ...
"CORVETTE

January is an early changeover to 19 Model Year

Carry over vehicle, no major changes"
...at face value.

We'll be seeing what that really means in about 5 weeks...
"2019 Model Year Key dates:

Order Guide published 11/20/17"
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:34 AM   #7
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Does this mean the 2019 model year for Corvette will go from 1/18 through 6/19 to get back on schedule? Will the 11/20/17 order guide have the C7 ZR1 in it?
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Old 10-13-2017, 12:58 PM   #8
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Does this mean the 2019 model year for Corvette will go from 1/18 through 6/19 to get back on schedule? Will the 11/20/17 order guide have the C7 ZR1 in it?
I read early changeover years on a current model to be short production runs. Basically, GM will swap to 2019 early so they have the model. They will get enough stock to carry through to the next generation. They start building 2019 late January through middle of 2018. Factory shuts down, things are retooled for the C7.5 (a refreshed C7 just like the C6 was a refreshed C5). So the refreshed version of what we have now will be out as a 2020 model year.
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Old 10-13-2017, 02:23 PM   #9
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Dates corrected
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Old 10-13-2017, 05:41 PM   #10
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I read early changeover years on a current model to be short production runs. Basically, GM will swap to 2019 early so they have the model. They will get enough stock to carry through to the next generation. They start building 2019 late January through middle of 2018. Factory shuts down, things are retooled for the C7.5 (a refreshed C7 just like the C6 was a refreshed C5). So the refreshed version of what we have now will be out as a 2020 model year.
I think that's right...they will build 2 years worth of closeout C7's (2018 and 2019) in about 12 months and then shut the plant down for 6 months (second half of 2018) to re-tool for the new model(s). The $64K question is whether there will be one or two new models - a front engine, (i.e. C7.5) and/or a mid-engine, (i.e. C8).

My guess is both, but I don't see a big gap in price between the two....My guess is the C7.5 will make cosmetic and limited powertrain updates to the very successful C7 Stingray model allowing an introductory price of $60K, and the C8 will use a lot of common componentry, including engines, transmissions, etc. and interiors (think common "tub"), and start at about $80K. The Z06 and ZR1 models will be ME C8's only, with commensurate additions to the sticker price.

GM cannot afford to devote half the production capacity of the Bowling green plant to a $150K car that will only sell ~2500-5000 cars a year. The Corvette business model only closes because GM has had production volume higher than anyone else in the sports car business. They have been selling ~30,000 C7's a year over the past four years, and even in the lean years at the end of the C6 run, they sold ~15,000 cars. That tells me that they need to sell at least 10-15K ME C8's along side 15-20K C7.5's to make the business case close.....i.e. the C8 must start well below $100K to penetrate the market in the volumes required to close the business case.

Why do I say this - take a look at "How its Made: Dream Cars" on the Discovery channel. After watching a couple dozen of these episodes, it is relatively easy to see who is building for volume vs. "bespoke" hand-made custom cars. The "tell" is the degree of automation and the amount of "touch labor". The Corvette Bowling Green plant and the Porsche 911 / Boxster Zuffenhausen plant are the two MOST automated sports car plants in the world. The capital that GM and Porsche (VW) have poured into these plants is only rivaled by what Musk put into the Tesla plant in CA. Capital payback requires amortization over a large number of units to generate enough revenue, (i.e. cash) to cover depreciation, because once it is in place, Capital can't be easily "laid off". Touch labor, on the other hand, can be scaled (within limits) to demand. What that means is for GM to close the business case on a mid-engine Corvette, they HAVE TO sell a LOT of them. NOBODY will sell a LOT of $150K sports cars. Period..dot.

The most significant aspect the new mid-engine will have relative to its rivals, (Ferrari, Acura, McLaren, etc.) will be its low price and its value proposition. Just like the C7. Otherwise GM can't and won't do it.
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Old 10-13-2017, 11:11 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by vetteLT193 View Post
I read early changeover years on a current model to be short production runs. Basically, GM will swap to 2019 early so they have the model. They will get enough stock to carry through to the next generation. They start building 2019 late January through middle of 2018. Factory shuts down, things are retooled for the C7.5 (a refreshed C7 just like the C6 was a refreshed C5). So the refreshed version of what we have now will be out as a 2020 model year.
I agree except that I think the new 2020 model will be the ME and the FE will go bye bye. We've seen no spy shots whatsoever of any updated C7, or C7.5, but we have seen many shots of the ME this year.....coincidentally at McDonald's right before this announcement.

Whatever GM has planned, big changes coming in the Corvette world.

I would love to think that the ZR1 will be revealed at the LA auto show in December....makes sense since the 2019 order guide will already be available.....and the ME revealed at the Detroit show in January, but I doubt that will happen. Despite the fact that the ME looks damn near production ready, that would hurt C7 sales quite badly.

IMHO, I think we'll see the ZR1 in Detroit, and the ME (C8) revealed at the Detroit show in 2019 as a 2020 model, going on sale shortly thereafter. If a second car is built at Bowling Green, it wont be a second Corvette. More than likely a Cadillac GT coupe of some sort, perhaps even based on the C7 platform.....which would save some development costs.

I also believe that the Camaro has emerged to become too close in performance to the Corvette and offering only a ME Corvette will differentiate them dramatically.

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Old 10-14-2017, 08:50 AM   #12
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[QUOTE=dcbingaman;1595759838]I think that's right...they will build 2 years worth of closeout C7's (2018 and 2019) in about 12 months and then shut the plant down for 6 months (second half of 2018) to re-tool for the new model(s). The $64K question is whether there will be one or two new models - a front engine, (i.e. C7.5) and/or a mid-engine,.."

My complements to dcbingaman for sharing the excellent predictions for the Corvette future. And I was equally impressed by the author's excellent writing skills - well said!
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Old 10-14-2017, 10:22 AM   #13
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I think that's right...they will build 2 years worth of closeout C7's (2018 and 2019) in about 12 months and then shut the plant down for 6 months (second half of 2018) to re-tool for the new model(s). The $64K question is whether there will be one or two new models - a front engine, (i.e. C7.5) and/or a mid-engine, (i.e. C8).

My guess is both, but I don't see a big gap in price between the two....My guess is the C7.5 will make cosmetic and limited powertrain updates to the very successful C7 Stingray model allowing an introductory price of $60K, and the C8 will use a lot of common componentry, including engines, transmissions, etc. and interiors (think common "tub"), and start at about $80K. The Z06 and ZR1 models will be ME C8's only, with commensurate additions to the sticker price.

GM cannot afford to devote half the production capacity of the Bowling green plant to a $150K car that will only sell ~2500-5000 cars a year. The Corvette business model only closes because GM has had production volume higher than anyone else in the sports car business. They have been selling ~30,000 C7's a year over the past four years, and even in the lean years at the end of the C6 run, they sold ~15,000 cars. That tells me that they need to sell at least 10-15K ME C8's along side 15-20K C7.5's to make the business case close.....i.e. the C8 must start well below $100K to penetrate the market in the volumes required to close the business case.

Why do I say this - take a look at "How its Made: Dream Cars" on the Discovery channel. After watching a couple dozen of these episodes, it is relatively easy to see who is building for volume vs. "bespoke" hand-made custom cars. The "tell" is the degree of automation and the amount of "touch labor". The Corvette Bowling Green plant and the Porsche 911 / Boxster Zuffenhausen plant are the two MOST automated sports car plants in the world. The capital that GM and Porsche (VW) have poured into these plants is only rivaled by what Musk put into the Tesla plant in CA. Capital payback requires amortization over a large number of units to generate enough revenue, (i.e. cash) to cover depreciation, because once it is in place, Capital can't be easily "laid off". Touch labor, on the other hand, can be scaled (within limits) to demand. What that means is for GM to close the business case on a mid-engine Corvette, they HAVE TO sell a LOT of them. NOBODY will sell a LOT of $150K sports cars. Period..dot.

The most significant aspect the new mid-engine will have relative to its rivals, (Ferrari, Acura, McLaren, etc.) will be its low price and its value proposition. Just like the C7. Otherwise GM can't and won't do it.
Point of Order: I have a hard time believing that Bowling Green would ever be able to rationalize having two completely separate automated production lines, one for a front engine and and one for a ME.

But is there a possibility that the ME Vette could could be built as a $150k plus hand built halo car?

Just ruminating.
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Old 10-14-2017, 12:34 PM   #14
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But is there a possibility that the ME Vette could could be built as a $150k plus hand built halo car?
As a Caddy, yes.
But not as a Chevrolet.
To do so, would be a complete break from the 60 year image of a Corvette.

Corvette has always been America's Sportscar.
A car that the Everyman could someday (if not at the moment) afford...a rolling midlife crisis vehicle for balding white guys.
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Old 10-14-2017, 04:40 PM   #15
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(Corvette)... A rolling midlife crisis vehicle for balding white guys.
Hey, I represent that remark...
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Old 10-14-2017, 05:06 PM   #16
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[QUOTE=Vernon;1595762737]
Quote:
Originally Posted by dcbingaman View Post
I think that's right...they will build 2 years worth of closeout C7's (2018 and 2019) in about 12 months and then shut the plant down for 6 months (second half of 2018) to re-tool for the new model(s). The $64K question is whether there will be one or two new models - a front engine, (i.e. C7.5) and/or a mid-engine,.."

My complements to dcbingaman for sharing the excellent predictions for the Corvette future. And I was equally impressed by the author's excellent writing skills - well said!
Thanks for the complement, Vernon.

My understanding is most of new tooling is going into the side of the plant that was built to do the Cadillac XLR back in the day, so it looks like a second line to me. As for a more "bespoke" (i.e. hand-built car like a Ferrari, etc.), car - I think if that was GM's goal, they would follow Ford's approach and go to an outside vendor like Multimatic to do it. Doing something like this within the GM production system doesn't make a lot of sense.
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Old 10-15-2017, 01:25 AM   #17
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I agree except that I think the new 2020 model will be the ME and the FE will go bye bye. We've seen no spy shots whatsoever of any updated C7, or C7.5...
I also believe that the Camaro has emerged to become too close in performance to the Corvette and offering only a ME Corvette will differentiate them dramatically.
The Camaro ZL1 1LE was only 1.1 sec short of the Z06 lap time at VIR (from C & D Lightning Lap), so it may be possible a Z28 (surely it must be coming) with the same power as the ZR1 could be even faster than the Z06. I might even prefer that Z28 over the Z06 with it's finicky suspension setup, esp if the ZR1 is priced unrealistically. Is it a coincidence Harlan Charles now oversees both Camaro & Corvette?
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Old 10-15-2017, 07:53 AM   #18
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The Camaro ZL1 1LE was only 1.1 sec short of the Z06 lap time at VIR (from C & D Lightning Lap), so it may be possible a Z28 (surely it must be coming) with the same power as the ZR1 could be even faster than the Z06. I might even prefer that Z28 over the Z06 with it's finicky suspension setup, esp if the ZR1 is priced unrealistically. Is it a coincidence Harlan Charles now oversees both Camaro & Corvette?
The Camaro may be close in performance, but not in appearance. A Camaro is a 4-seat coupe. A Corvette is a 2-seat sports car. These are 2 different markets.
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Old 10-15-2017, 12:50 PM   #19
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Different cars, but not different markets. Both appeal to those who buy American sport cars/coupes and are looking for the best bang for the buck. The Camaro is no joke and even I considered it before I bought the C7. They need to differentiate the Vette even further from the Camaro to avoid the possibility of any further cannibalization of sales.
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Old 10-15-2017, 03:51 PM   #20
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Different cars, but not different markets. Both appeal to those who buy American sport cars/coupes and are looking for the best bang for the buck. The Camaro is no joke and even I considered it before I bought the C7. They need to differentiate the Vette even further from the Camaro to avoid the possibility of any further cannibalization of sales.
No argument with you on differentiation, but I don't think performance is as important as aesthetics and interior layout and quality in the choice many (most ?) people make.

The Camaro is a great "pony car" BUT it is really competing against the Mustang. In addition, while the Camaro ZL1 has become a great track car, (thanks to Mark Reuss's determination), it can still be easily confused by John Q. Public with the I-4 and V-6 powered base Camaro's that are ubiquitous. The Mustang has the same issue. A lot of "sporty" guys just don't want that kind of confusion !!

On the other hand, I don't think the Camaro team has been constrained in any way be GM in pushing the Camaro to be a better car. That is good for GM, for Corvette and for anyone who loves to drive.

Also, two-seaters are not really in the same market as four-seaters because of lifestyle choices - I know because I could not even consider buying my Corvette until my kids grew up.

With the demise of the Viper, the Corvette is in a unique class of its own among American cars and is competing primarily with Porsche, but also Audi, BMW, Lamborghini, Acura, Mercedes-Benz/AMG and even Ferrari. I think the push for more performance and better road-handling is primarily to compete with those marques.
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