Boiler_81

Post #26 "I hope I don't regret posting this, but the fulfillment deadline is 4 months from now. Like I said in my original post, take it or leave it. It's true regardless,"

SSsedanM6

So, you know when the car is going to hit the street now?
Great, How did you come across that previously unknown info?

SSsedanM6

Beat up? I don't give a flying fig what you think, or whether you want to accept the info.
In fact, I'm actually looking forward to bumping this thread after the official release to serve some crow to the resident "experts" around here.


I don't want to turn this thread into debate or a pissing match .
I hope the rev-matching manual remains an option.
But, the report is that the mid-engine car is DCT only.

It seems like only those that are clueless about DCT, are the ones who want to deny others the option to have DCT in the past.
For what it's worth, I think GM should offer both.

Shaka

Nice post.

Check out this vid again lest you loose the point.. 11:30 and 18:20. Be careful what you wish for.
On track days, the DCT will be fun, but when you live with the car especially on trips, you are going to get bored as hell. The Porsche has so many doo dads to defy physics that the fun factor has all but disappeared. I'm afraid the C8 could be such a car.
A C5 is 20 years old with some over 200 000 miles. It is a great entry level track car. A 20 year old C8 with a DCT just ain't going to make it.
That tranny is expensive to fix.
Sequentials are expensive now, but with high production numbers and some Yamaha refinement (LFA) you can have something like this that will be cheap to fix in 20 years time.

JerriVette

I still believe a planetary gearbox without a torque converter but computer controlled shifting could make an appearance from GM. GM is set up to build planetary gearboxes from a manufacturing standpoint.....

It. Be interesting to see if the 10 speed planetary is superior to the seven speeds of a dual clutch transmission...

There have been rumbles of superiority of BMW s latest M5 with a zf torque converter automatic transmission that is clearly superior to the dct m5 of the last generation...

It had all the benefits of a dct with none of the downsides with regards to a maximum number of forward gears being presently limited to seven.

SSsedanM6

Like clockwork, right on cue.......

Shaka

So where did you get your mechanical engineering degree, oh wise one?

Suns_PSD

Randy Pabst was faster in the manual trans Zl1 Camaro at Willow Springs (lots of shifts there) than he was in the 10 speed auto version of the same car.

The auto showed an advantage on the long straightaway due to lightning fast upshifts, but not enough to overcome the manual for the lap time.

Bill Dearborn

The way I look at it a DCT is both automatic and manual. Unlike a slush box automatic it is an automated manual (a direct drive transmission Vs being driven through a torque converter) that can be controlled manually. The only true difference between operating the transmission in manual mode and operating a completely manual transmission is the shift mechanism is moved to the steering wheel and the clutch is synchronized with the shift mechanism with the result that both the clutch pedal and the shift lever are no longer required. Other than that you can operate it just like any other manual transmission. Operating it isn't like operating a slush box auto transmission in manual mode.

All that you will be missing is wiggling a shaft sticking out of the console and pumping your left foot up and down. The current C7 manual transmission took all of the magic out of shifting and clutch work by providing rev match. Rev match pretty much eliminates any special technique required to synchronize moving your left foot up and down on the clutch while at the same time using your right foot to operate the brake and throttle to accomplish a smooth safe downshift. Now all you do is pull the correct paddle and the footwork can focus on brake and throttle. You will still need to watch the tach and speedo to determine when you want to shift up or down and you will have to learn how to use one hand for upshifts and the other for downshifts Vs wiggling the stick around.

Bill

PurpleLion

I accept that your statement is probably true, but, the performance of a 10 speed automatic has absolutely nothing to do with the performance of a DCT. As the previous poster has stated, the only significant difference between a manual and a DCT is that the DCT shifts faster than a human is capable of. The decision about when to change gears and what gear to use is totally under the control of the driver.

Also, the point about no longer needing to "heel and toe" downshifts is well taken since rev matching has essentially taken the skill requirement out of the equation!

JerriVette

Did my added discussion of a potienal planetary non torque converter automatic insult you?

That was never my intent...

It just so happens planetary gearboxes can offer 3 extra gears than a dct which can appear to be limited to 7 forward gears....

Computer controlled planetary gearboxes can shift just as fast as dct gearboxes...(without torque converters)

There may be some downside to the planetary non torque converter gearbox,,,but don't know what it is...

If you do please chime in...I'd be interested in hearing about it..

GM has the production facilities all set up for planetary gearboxes...and modifying them to produce non torque converter versions wouldn't be that far a stretch...

After reading how the latest BMW M5 has a new torque converter automatic instead of its previous dct is an interesting turn of events...

I'm not saying I want a torque converter traditional automatic in the c8...

I'm just discussing other potiential things that could occur ..

I hope your right and it's a dct ...

No offense intended to you with your news leak...

We are on the forum to just shoot the breeze...

GM having all that capacity to produce planetary gearboxes ...might be tempting for them over a dct...( additional number of gearing available in planetary gearboxes of the same size or less would increase fuel efficiency for government tests..which has big value to manufacturers,)

Maybe they'll just buy a dct to meet consumer demand...


Porsche, Ferrari, Lamborghini, BMW, Audi R8, mclaren, all use dct transmissions in all or various sporting versions of their brand...

Discussion of additional potiential outcomes is a testament to the thread and not a threat to your contribution. Happy holidays

sunsalem

Amazing...
The word was "now way will I buy a C8 if it has a slushbox only," and then grudgingly disclosure some here made with "will consider if a DCT is available."
Now that it's rumored to be DCT-only, the word is "no way will I buy C8 if there isn't a clutch pedal."
Sheesh, make up your mind, guys.

Why worry about this at all anyways?
The 2019 C7s are still being produced...go grab one of the those!
Like it or not, it's very likely manual clutches will die away sooner rather than later.
Keep your C7s and forget about it.
No one is putting a gun to your head to buy the ME.

JerriVette

I actually want a dct...over a manual in my next sports car...after 40 years of driving manual sports cars I think it might be interesting...

I've driven as many of us have BMW s and porsches if not ferraris, Lamborghini and mclarens with dct...

That said Porsche does have a portion of its customer base that does prefer manual transmissions for their sports cars....

Ferraris with a manual gearbox are in demand on the use daily market....ridiculously so...

There would most likely be both a dct and manual gearbox offered in corvette, ,

They have offered both a manual and an automatic for decades...

I don't see that changing...

If the dealer network does the eventual ordering then yes the manual transmission would stay at 23 percent or even shrink..

No doubt the empirical data from zero to whatever speed does often show today's magazine editors can't drive or launch a stick shift so the dct s seem to shine in the all important to readers zero to whatever speed tests...

Not sure if I'd opt for a torque converter automatic over a manual next time. But a dct? Yes without a doubt..

They are that responsive during around town or mountain pass fun driving.

On the track its true most PDk s or dct s are just left in sport or track mode for the fastest lap times...

The dam computers are taking over the earth...(kidding) but the dct or PDk cars left to their own devices on a track are faster than even those who flap those PDk or dct flappy paddles..

jimmyb

The OP has a long history here (under MANY names, and being banned).

sunsalem

Sure, there will always be manual fans.
The problem is the numbers keep shrinking (what is it...something like 75% buy A8s?).
After awhile, it make no economic sense for manufacturers to continue offering them.

Sorry, I'm confused...do you mean the USED Ferrari market?
This is true.
It takes skill to operate the paddles on the A8 efficiently (which naturally excludes me).
I use the paddles primarily to keep the car from going into the V4 Mode.

fasttoys

DCT is all that Ferrari,Lamborghini,McLaren & Audi offers unfortunate theirs no manuals. Porsche is one of the last Euro Auto companies offering a manual on a ME and that would be the Cayman, box & GT4 as the 911 is more of a rear engine so that doesn’t count. I am good with DCT and wonder if they have packaging issues adding a manual to the ME. Maybe they will offer the manual on their higher HP ME. I am just happy it’s not a regular automatic as I would be out. I still feel the ME will be in customer hands before February of 2019. Time will tell.

JerriVette

Sorry my ipads auto correct tends to reek havoc on some words.

Used ferraris with manual transmissions are calling for much higher prices than those same models with automated clutches.

I believe the Ferrari 360 would be a good example.

Hell if you look at the pricing a few years back compared to today...the 308 and 328 have gone crazy...

Compared to today's performance vehicles those are quite laughable but the manual transmission And the "sense of occasion " from driving the manual gated shifter is what is driving prices up.

Porsches 911r manual had seen ridiculous pricing specifically because it was a manual transmission Porsche. All my neighbors on the block here opted for manual transmission 991.2 s which surprised me....they just wanted manual transmission Porsches and the turbo which only came with PDk lost out in their shopping ..even though they had older Porsche turbos before...even I couldn't convince them of the benefit of the PDk...And I'm the sole corvette owner....we have a nice neighborhood collection of sport sedan car enthusiasts..ferraris, vipers, Porsches, corvettes...a few astons..

Id like a dct for the next gen corvette yet I believe a manual will still be in the cards. I personally believe the ordering of corvettes by its dealer network for inventory tends to imbalance the actual consumer demand on manual transmissions, dealers tend to order inventory unsold at the time of ordering as automatics because it's easier to sell ...the dealers just convince buyers the flappy paddles will give the. The feeling of a manual without the hassle and new customers accept that statement in their 20 minute test drive.

Manuals will a place at corvette brand because the brand managers understand the corvette consumers demographics....which really isn't changing that much...

The image of the corvette is synomous with manual shifters..

Half the time people hear or see me getting out of my corvette...the first question with admiring eyes I hear is...Is it a manual?

Those who dream of a corvette take great pride in hearing me smile and say it's a manual...

It's almost like a right of passage to those who ask...

"In control" seems to be their destiny...

The journey for many is the dream..

I throw my keys to who ever wants to drive it...

Makes me laugh to see them smile as they drive the corvette.

(Within responsible reason of course)

sunsalem

I suppose so, but it's lost on me.

IF the Chevrolet ME is really the C8 and not some distinctly different model, then I would really be surprised if there was no manual available.

RonnieC6Z

Of course, I don't know this to be fact. However, at both L.A. auto shows, December of 2016 and 2 weeks ago, I spoke to 2 different folks from Chevy, in town from Detroit. Neither could tell me anything about the mid engine C8 with one exception. They both said that I would have to wait until very early 2019. Makes sense to me.

Now, to give you my take on this whole thing. I have owned 11 Vettes, Porsches, Ferraris, and you name it. I have also done some work for both Porsche and Ferrari. Furthermore, living in L.A., I know many a Porsche, Ferrari, Lambo, McLaren, Mustang and Corvette owner. Folks who own exotics are a different breed. Generally, they are older, own many cars, and put maybe 100 miles a month, tops, on their exotic. Most exotics never see a track. These folks are not interested in a manual box. The last manual offered in a Ferrari was in the 430 and 599. They had 6 speed gated boxes and were a pain to shift compared to a Vette or Porsche. I know...I owned one. It became apparent to Ferrari that, because only 5% of all ordered cars were manuals, it was time to discontinue them. Porsche was planning to discontinue manuals in all 911's 2-3 years ago until they listened to their customers and realized that there was still a demand.

Eventually Chevy will probably discontinue the front engine car. The mid engine C8 will continue to have competition from Porsche and, to a smaller extent, Mustang. Unlike the exotics, which are not and never will be, Corvette's competition, Corvette will always, at least for the foreseeable future, have many customers, including myself, that demand a manual. I had a DCT PDK in my 2013 Porsche Boxster S. Great gear box. It was, like all of my cars including Ferraris, my daily driver. After 2 years, I could not live with it anymore. I traded it for a 2016 C7 manual. There are so many folks out there just like me. GM is not stupid. As long as there is a demand, there will be 3 pedal Corvettes. Of course, all of the above is conjecture on my part.

PurpleLion

Interesting comment. Why? Did you just miss the additional interaction of using the manual? Did you ever track the PDK and if so, was it comparable to a manual (from the standpoint of downshifting going into a corner, etc.)?