LightningBolt

The “Zerv” leaks have been interesting to us as Corvette enthusiasts, but also no doubt these leaks have also been interesting to GM’s competitors and have served to weaken the Corvette’s competitive advantage over it’s rivals. While the first leaks have certainly raised alarms at GM HQ, subsequent leaks might even have GM rethinking marketing strategy, release dates and engineering aspects of the project. At what point (if ever) does it take for GM to postpone or cancel the current project to re-market or re-engineer? Could Zerv be killing the dream?

My background is in the high tech industry, specifically software so I don’t understand the automotive industry as many here do, however, my industry has seen tons of intellectual property cases change the course of product development. I think while Zerv is fueling Vette enthusiasts interest through the theft and subsequent publication of CAD imagery, he may also be damaging the product we so badly want to see. Thoughts?

Jeff V.

They've already built engineering development vehicles and contracted with suppliers to produce parts. It's too late to make major changes to the program. You can't just change it on a whim like you can with software.

firstvettesoon

I am also not in the industry but I would think that they are so far down the road that they really can't afford to change course. Not for leaks anyway.

If the ME will be introduced in a few weeks or even months or end of year, what could competitors do? The big Euros are not going to copy anything. They may plan to change something down the road but not knowing exactly the performance, price, quality etc... What could or would they do.? The patents are published and available anyway. All they may know is some direction GM may be going.

As has been said. The ME will have a market advantage for those who want a true ME car, made in America. Those buyers will finally have an option at a reasonable price in the Porsche range not the SuperCar range IMO.

The leaks may ruin the "surprise" a little to us who frequent these forums but not the world at large. We knew a lot about the C7 before it was released but we were still excited.

Maybe GM reconsiders marketing or release dates depending on c7 sales if it drops in anticipation of the ME but people know it's coming anyway so the people who want to wait may wait but availability of the ME will still be 1-2 years off. Always a marketing issue but I think they have this problem with or without leaks.

Bill Dearborn

I doubt there has been any real competitive advantage lost due to the information published. Nobody has revealed any new technologies GM may be using in the car. Do we really know what it looks like? NO. Do we know if there is anything different about the suspension system? NO. Do we know if there is anything special about the engine? NO. What do we know? The car has a slightly stretched shape to it. It has 4 wheels and it has some means of propelling it down the road.

Bill

FrankLP

I think the only thing that ZERV might be "killing" is GM's marketing campaign and/scheduling.

For example, these leaked CAD images may have been something that GM's Marketing department could have gotten a lot more mileage (no pun) out of. They could have actually published (or leaked) these over a longer timeline... say 6-12 months; maybe even creating anticipation by developing a "set date" for each one. Similar to what they did with the C7 teaser videos.

Rapid Fred

Nothing will change.

Remember Jalopnik Nov. 2011?

They got the 2014 C7 99% correct. What did GM do? After firing a few folks (presumably) they strongly denied, denied, and denied some more — and then 18 months later released what Jalopnik showed us all in the first place. Here’s hoping ZERV can do the same for the C8...

Cap'n Pete

Same thing happened when GM brought the Camaro back in 2009. The leaked images were around for a long time prior to the prototype model which they displayed at the 2006 NAIAS (yes, 2006!). ~3+ years of anticipation, and the Camaro was still a big hit when it was finally (re-)released (in 2009, as a 2010 model).

elegant

Jalopnik's actual C7 Z06 CAD drawing were released by them on November 13, 2011, and despite being released more than year before the SR's reveal on 1.13.13, the C7 and the C7 Z06 were also a hit.

The sky is not falling, though clearly GM is disappointed right now. I have full faith the ME with be a similar major success. GM will knock it out of the park!

JerriVette

Who is to say industrial spy's already had tipped off the competition ....before the release of the Recent CAD drawings...

My only question is who is the competition to the corvette these days? And I'm not being funny..

Ford? Dodge? Porsche? Alfa? Lotus? NSX? Mclaren? Ferrari? Lamborghini? Mercedes? BMW?

The corvette actually straddles many other brands but has very few direct competitors ...

Some would say the corvette is the center or bullseye while the rest seem to orbit around the corvette market segment from a market segment model specific unit volume perspective not to mention performance perspective.

Corvette has an attractive balance of performance, style, heritage, and value.

It would take most other manufacturers at least 4 or 5 years just from a technical standpoint to catch up much less match those attributes American consumers find so enticing.

That so called matching of all those attributes really hasn't been done for any length of time in 65 years.

GM uses spy shots as free publicity ...not to mention press coverage of the corvettes raving about the product ...

From a free advertising perspective the halo effect for the entire brand of both track testing and compariso tests to spy photo releases....

The buzz is worth the cost of the entire development cost just as a halo vehicle to all other GM products in an indirect way...for 65 years....

Telepierre

^^^^^^
Many good responses and yes in short the ball has been rolling for quite some time and I think JerryVette has the most complete answer to the OP.
The various manufacturers interested in what GM/Chevrolet does knew of a ME way back when the first camo pictures surfaced.. but, unlike the IT world, a product cannot be extrapolated, copied, and remanufactured from a "thumb drive".. no start ups either..that is it is really not possible to start an automotive company on a dime/seed money..and yes the story on TESLA is still to be seen..

The camo pictures along with this drawings may spur interest from a competitor strategy point of view.. "hey! look.. Chevrolet is after an ME...do we want to do something about it?.." and it could be that the drawings reveal enough about the nature of the bill of materials... things like "look...castings.....definitively not carbon.. they are after the "value" thing again! (I AM JUST SPECULATING... :-)... do we want to try to match!? at this price/margin level and is the "squeeze worth the juice..?"

The CADS do not reveal a photon or hydrogen engine so no first entry advantage loss there..

JerryVette has it... truth is Corvette has developed and refined the
"value" play throughout the years and I think they are doubling down on that advantage.

NOW! I do thing there is a name out there that wants to "play" with this and that is AMG-Daimler.. and yes I bet they are looking at these development very hard but not in the copying sense.. IMHO they can't... yet but in the sense I won't be surprised if an AMG ME shows up in a couple of years as well..

MY2C

LightningBolt

Possibly. But now that this information has been leaked to Daimler, perhaps a full year ahead of when they would have learned had everyone been playing honestly. How will that change GMs plans? We can only speculate and I agree with many other respondents that the most likely answer is stay the course.

At the risk of derailing my own thread - am I the only one who views Zerv as an industrial spy and this reveal a case of industrial espionage? This is theft of intellectual property. Zerv should be liable to GM for damages

wv8090

Zerv is NOT killing the ME.

Zerv IS killing the ZR1.


I had $5k set aside and a deal with my favorite dealer for a ZR1 allocation, but after the CAD leaks confirming to me that something BIG is right around the corner I decided to keep my money in my pocket...

Telepierre

Mhmm..I am not so sure I would go that far with that degree of certainty.

I would consider the following:

The ZR1 is an existing product you can buy today.

@ 755 The ZR1 is positioned as the pinnacle of performance.

Rumor has it Corvette is expanding their manufacturing plants.

Doubtful they are doing it to build more FE C7s.

The "signals" are affordable car..

I think the next BIG thing around the corner is that Corvette is introducing another model for a different segment of the sport market..

I don't think they are going after lambos, Ferraris, and Mc Larens..
I think they are going after Boxers and Caymans.. or in other words
they are going after VOLUME again.

Boxers and Caymans are positioned below 911s.. Nice ME experience ...NOT the level of 911 performance..

So I would suggest that if you (or anybody) were gunning for the ZR1 because you like what you see in terms of performance I would not expect that level on a first ZERV and from what I am seeing so far I do not see anything even remotely close to 755HPs with 100K miles warranty in the engine bay..

Point is they are two different cars and one of them MAY come out in 2019.. but then again..70% of all the Cs went out with 3 to 5 years delays..

Cheers.

Telepierre

I agree with you that making public confidential engineering data is wrong.

I probably disagree with the inferred degree of "damage".

Everybody has seen and knew of the camo ZERV time ago. That was publicly data available and it is accepted practice that taking pictures of CAMO cars on public roads is not "wrong". It is a trade magazine industry in fact and many sides benefit.....

As for theft of intellectual property...well..

Did he sneak in, trespass private property, defeat alarms, ala MI5?

OR

is he a 16 year old teen that was on a facility tour taking pictures of his cousin screen?

I guess you sense were I am going with this..

wv8090

A lot of what you said may be well and true but it does not apply to me.

For me, I would rather wait a year and see what the ME is all about before I drop $130K on what is the swansong of the C7.

If in a year the ME turns out to be the 2020 Fiero or something I don't care for then so be it, I go buy a ZR1 that will still be available (and probably discounted)

That scenario is much preferable to me spending $130k on a car and then falling in love with the new ME but realizing that I'm married to a $130k depreciated car in my garage.

So yea, I realize not everybody thinks like me and I can only speak for my own actions when I state that yes the CAD drawings hurt the ZR1. I'm only 1 person that was going to buy 1 ZR1 but I imagine there are others thinking the same thing.

elegant

Thanks wv8090. While the leaked drawings and rendering lost your ZR1 sale at this time, GM is not concerned about that. The entire run of 2019 ZR1’s will be sold out. As one example, a forum dealer with a huge ZR1 allocation, has a prioritized list of ZR1 purchasers that is more than double his allocation. On the other end of the scale, all of the smaller, local dealers who got a ZR1 allocation whom I checked with, as well as some of the smaller forum dealerships who are not gouging, also have sold out of it for the 2019 model year.

I am confident given the Corvette styling team, the ME will be a home run. Might it only have run for one golf bag, and/or its probable lack of a manual trans, and similar components (or lack thereof), result in some ME buyers choosing to instead get a 2020 ZR1? I think that is a definite possibility, but as GM will sell out of ME’s at least for the first two years, no concern on GM’s part if a few potential ME buyers buy a ZR1.

Exciting times right now; exciting times ahead for Corvette buyers.

sunsalem

I am too.
Corvettes have always been known for their impressive styling.
I doubt GM will drop the ball on this one either.

JerriVette

I believe the first four years of the mid engine corvette will be a sellout.

I think there is 40 years of pent up demand for mid engine corvette.

Just like some guys went off at the loss of round tail lights with the c7 just a smile it came out..sales were very strong...


People **** and moan at change or at least at the beginning of a launch and then as time goes on..those same people end up buying the new corvette..
Tons of people who never considered a corvette will take a test drive if available of the new rear mid engine corvette...

I imagine a lot of Ferrari and Lamborghini not to mention mclaren owners will buy a rear mid engine corvette as their daily driver..or at least one of them...

The mileage depreciation thing so worried about by exotic car owner will be of minor consequence.,.with a rear mid engine corvette...

If the cars start at 64 grand..even if it lost half its value in five years at 10k miles a year...

Your only out around 30 grand...that's nothing compared to a 30k mile usage on an exotic...not to mention routine maintaince costs...

For the rear mid engine corvette it will be four one hundred dollar oil changes and maybe a set or two of tires..

Where as an exotic supercar with nearly corvette like track capabilities will be or could be much much more...not to mention the depreciation factor...

GM builds their corvettes to bust through a 3 foot snow bank and validates its drivetrains for 300k miles,,,

The exotic brands never build such durability into their vehicles...

This is an exciting time for car enthusiasts of all brands..

I fully expect Italian and german car enthusiasts to be new to the corvette brand like never before...

Four years of sell outs is entirely possible...

As long as GM doesn't just build 150 grand twinturbo v8 rear mid engine corvettes...

That's a limited market...

The meat of the corvette market where the volume is ....is in the 50 to 100 grand price tag with a few low unit volume pieces reaching to 140 grand for those that have the desire for the best of the best...

elegant

Mike Furman@Criswell, and I sure other top dealers know first hand for the past five years, what you have just posted JerriVette, as he has been since selling C7’s at good levels to Porsche and even Ferrari owners since it came out.

A Ferrari owning friend of mine, not just liked his 2014 Z-51, but so much so that he purchased his second C7, 18 months ago. He told me that in terms of daily driving enjoyment, he is having to “make time” to insure he drives his eight year old Ferrari at least once a month.

Like you, I believe that the “top competitive brand, sports car conquest” trend will even further escalate when the ME comes out.

yz250fPilot

I agree, I still can't believe just how good the wide body C7 looks!