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Yes, I agree there is a suggestion of the top edge and angle/shape of the scoop...if it's not a trick !
I did use this design in my renders. The angle of the image makes the scoop look straighter than it would be viewed from the side view.
Have a look at the LaFerrari. It has a similar shaped scoop but when viewed acutely it appears much less angular. In my render since the door does not bulge out as far as the Ferrari, the angle is less dramatic.
Looking at the front on images of the LaFerrari and my render (top and bottom) the angles are very similar.
Thanks for the coffie table book images! The headlamp treatment does look similar to the spy pics!
Last edited by firstvettesoon; 01-15-2018 at 08:07 PM.
The mules/IVERS we have seen have in all probability, many pre-production parts, maybe even some “temporary filler pieces” used solely to give a distorting shape to the vehicles — such as to hold out the camo-cladding in ways the final car will not have.
For example, the rear “spears” coming from the outside edges of the halo bar, going rearward, are probably deliberate misdirection as to the rear window shape of the car.
None of us have not seen any confirmation that the paint shop front fascia is the final, outer structure. All we know about it, is that a temporary construction worker hired to be part of the plant gut and complete make-over, took and smuggled out two unsanctioned pictures. GM has not verified what those pictures are or are not, e.g. outer structure or inner support structure. For all we know, they are just some filler pieces designed to give some mounting places for the camo-cladding, printed on a 3-D printer and painted. They too could have deliberate visual misdirection components.
The mules/IVERS we have seen have in all probability, many pre-production parts, maybe even some “temporary filler pieces” used solely to give a distorting shape to the vehicles — such as to hold out the camo-cladding in ways the final car will not have.
For example, the rear “spears” coming from the outside edges of the halo bar, going rearward, are probably deliberate misdirection as to the rear window shape of the car.
None of us have not seen any confirmation that the paint shop front fascia is the final, outer structure. All we know about it, is that a temporary construction worker hired to be part of the plant gut and complete make-over, took and smuggled out two unsanctioned pictures. GM has not verified what those pictures are or are not, e.g. outer structure or inner support structure. For all we know, they are just some filler pieces designed to give some mounting places for the camo-cladding, printed on a 3-D printer and painted. They too could have deliberate visual misdirection components.
That's a stretch... my money's on the red bumpers being the real deal. The front bumper has undertray/splitter mount provisions molded in.
I'm going to just shut up and enjoy your work, since you obviously know more about this than I do.
...but please keep looking and keep the convo going...
...it may be a L O N G year ! Never know what little details will pop out. Seeing the scoop thru the small gap in the tarp was a good observation. If it's not a trick on GMs part.
There is a bulge in the door and squeezes in behind the door and in front of the rear wheel. Very Coke-bottle-y. !
I think this thing will have some very sexy lines...or at least hope so!
Last edited by firstvettesoon; 01-15-2018 at 08:44 PM.
How was it for the C7 mules at this stage? Did they end up having fake parts or do-me-tils or just padding and camo?
It's always easy to look back once you know the real shape. From my memory they had foam padding in areas to throw things off. The biggest was the lights. The pics from that coffee table book show the front, but the rear had generic round semi-truck LED pucks stuck in the holes. People debated for months that it would have round lights when it was very clear they were generics stuck in a space and we had already seen the backside of the molded bumper from a leak that showed a trapezoidal inset for the tails and vents we all know today.
We are still one year out, and we know a lot more at this point than we did at a comparable time for the C7, as per below.
We will see less camo-cladding during the next twelve months (remembering Jim Mero’s comments about how he needs to have most of the thick padding removed so the team can do aero and suspension tuning), and also remember the head of Cadillac saying six weeks ago, that to better improve their vehicles, they are going to be using less camo earlier on in the testing process.
Here are early C7 mule pictures:
Here are late two C7 mule pictures (Sept, 2012 — just months before the reveal):
Not sure of best place to post this but since we are discussing the spy pics and details I drop it here.
Below is a comparison of the C8 ME vs the Ferrari 458 and Porsche Turbo S for size and proportions.
I used multiple spy pics and the CAD images to try to visualize and estimate the actual sizes and shape of the ME. The outline is a "best-guess" of the shape and features we know to date. but I think it's pretty close.
I know there has been discussion and concern for the overhangs etc and this drawing should help put things in perspective.
From my estimation, the C8 ME will be almost the same length as the 458 with a wheel base approx 100mm longer than the 458 and 300mm longer than the Turbo S. It will sit slightly lower than the Turbo and a bit taller than the Ferrari.
The front overhang will be approx. the same as the Turbo S and shorter than the Ferrari.
Since the frunk of the 458 is fairly large (for a supercar) and similar to the A8, and the Turbo S has room behind the seats, I think there should be a good deal of storage room available as well if GM has worked it out in a similar way.
From the cad bottom/top view there seems to be a fairly nice Coke-bottle shape going on and should provide some very sexy-exciting lines.
The "pinch-in at the waist "could" provide a similar effect as the GT where the doors lead into the side scoop in a very dramatic way.
The rear "window" area is only a guess and could be an air intake like the 458 or Lambo or could have an interesting inlet below as I suggested.
There may also be some sort of sculpted shape or inlet along the top edge of the fender line. That area always looks a bit like they are hiding something there and seems to have a dark area in some of the spy pics.
Thoughts?
Last edited by firstvettesoon; 01-17-2018 at 08:21 PM.
[QUOTE=firstvettesoon;1596398992]Not sure of best place to post this but since we are discussing the spy pics and details I drop it here.
Below is a comparison of the C8 ME vs the Ferrari 458 and Porsche Turbo S for size and proportions.]
My first thought is that you are a great photo-interpretor....the Government (NPIC) has a job for you ! My second thought is I think you are pretty damn close. Tadge has always talked about "bandwidth" of the Corvette - that it needed to be both a great sports car, but also a great GT, because a lot of buyers use these as everyday cars.
The challenge for any mid-engine car is trunk / storage space. The C7 has nearly 15 cu. ft. of it. The C8 probably will give some of this up, but the shape you have drawn shows volume where someone could carry more that a gym bag or a briefcase. I think that is important to the marketability of this car and so has been one of GM's design goals.
It would be interesting to compare your drawings of the the C8 to the publicly available drawings of C7 at the same scale in both plan and sheer views to get an idea how big this puppy is. I suspect it is longer than the C7, but probably not quite as tall. Keep up the great work.
Wow. That's some impressive work. If the profile is even close to accurate, it'll be interesting to see how GM spins it.
As they're constantly on record saying...it has to look like a Corvette. That does not look like a Corvette. It looks like just another mid engine sports car.
If nothing else, this just makes me feel more strongly that this isn't the C8, and there will be a front engine successor to the C7 later on.
Either way....very nice work. It's fun to have something so solid to use as a foundation for discussion.
Not sure of best place to post this but since we are discussing the spy pics and details I drop it here.
Below is a comparison of the C8 ME vs the Ferrari 458 and Porsche Turbo S for size and proportions.]
My first thought is that you are a great photo-interpretor....the Government (NPIC) has a job for you ! My second thought is I think you are pretty damn close. Tadge has always talked about "bandwidth" of the Corvette - that it needed to be both a great sports car, but also a great GT, because a lot of buyers use these as everyday cars.
The challenge for any mid-engine car is trunk / storage space. The C7 has nearly 15 cu. ft. of it. The C8 probably will give some of this up, but the shape you have drawn shows volume where someone could carry more that a gym bag or a briefcase. I think that is important to the marketability of this car and so has been one of GM's design goals.
It would be interesting to compare your drawings of the the C8 to the publicly available drawings of C7 at the same scale in both plan and sheer views to get an idea how big this puppy is. I suspect it is longer than the C7, but probably not quite as tall. Keep up the great work.
C7 is 2710 WB -4493 OL 1151 H from the print I have making the C7 lower than even the Ferrari. Is this correct? If so, the C8 may be lower as well.
Here it is compared to the C7. Note thet the proportions are almost exactly reversed as far as overhang vs wheelbase.
Last edited by firstvettesoon; 01-17-2018 at 09:09 PM.
If there ever is a ME Caddy, it would be years down the road, and it would an all electric version. Cadillac has much bigger issues it is now dealing with, the development of new SUV models (with simultaneous reduction of sedans).
Here are two good articles/interviews with Cadillac’s head de Nysschen from today and yesterday.
If there ever is a ME Caddy, it would be years down the road, and it would an all electric version. Cadillac has much bigger issues it is now dealing with, the development of new SUV models (with simultaneous reduction of sedans).
Here are two good articles/interviews with Cadillac’s head de Nysschen from today and yesterday.
C7 is 2710 WB -4493 OL 1151 H from the print I have making the C7 lower than even the Ferrari. Is this correct? If so, the C8 may be lower as well.
Here it is compared to the C7. Note thet the proportions are almost exactly reversed as far as overhang vs wheelbase.
Very Interesting - it really makes the C7 hood look TOO long. I never thought I'd say that.
Man, I think you've captured the essence of this ME C8. We all will have to wait until next year for the details, but the general form you've drawn looks pretty good to my eyes. I think if they can keep the price reasonably close to the C7, they will sell a bunch of them. Thanks !
The early spy pics show the c7 and c8 together and "seem" to be very similar size.
Check the height of the side windows of the greenhouse in the photo relative to your drawing - I think the C8 window height is LESS than the window height of the C7 - not more. The door height may well be higher. Adjust your max. roof height to the same dimension as the C7 and see if it matches the spy photos better.
Check the height of the side windows of the greenhouse in the photo relative to your drawing - I think the C8 window height is LESS than the window height of the C7 - not more. The door height may well be higher. Adjust your max. roof height to the same dimension as the C7 and see if it matches the spy photos better.
I wouldn't put too much effort into judging proportions based on those very early mules. The ones with the squared off front end and exposed doors. Those are using center body sections straight from the C7. Doors, roof, a-pillar, etc. Those cars are likely extremely early chassis and engine development mules and not the later IVER (integration vehicle engineering release) cars we've been seeing more recently. Things like wheelbase and track width are probably accurate on the mules, but not much else.
i hope you're close on your concept; on the picture of the real mule, the front overhang is more than the diameter of the front wheel! hopefully it has a foot of styrofoam hidden under the cover that will disappear on the actual car.
in the latest pictures, it looks like there is a pronounced rocker panel sill (rock protection/ground effects) under the door that somehow blends into the bottom of the side air intakes, and beneath approximately the rear edge of the door, the quarter panel extends at about a 10 degree angle flare. i wouldn't be surprised if the rear of the car is about a foot wider than the front; if not there will be at least a definitive coke bottle shape style.
i also think the bottom ridge of the side air intakes start at the bottom of the sill and only rise to 2 or 3 inches above the bottom of the quarter panels where the air goes into the engine compartment, with about 50 percent more opening than you show it on you latest computer design.
i am not criticizing the work you have done, but shaka's drawings come closer to capturing what i see as approximating the actual shape of the real car, including a likely pointed shovel nose with a lot of overhang. not good news for my taste, but it will be whatever it is under the covers.
01-15-2018, 08:03 PM
My second thought is I think you are pretty damn close. Tadge has always talked about "bandwidth" of the Corvette - that it needed to be both a great sports car, but also a great GT, because a lot of buyers use these as everyday cars. 
