Could GMs Plan be to force Stingray buyers to Camaro by pricing the C8 high?
07-08-2018, 11:15 PM
#241
and this is why I think the C7 is the end of the front-engine Corvette. It makes sense for GM to diversify the Corvette and Camaro nameplates to not only allow for the Corvette to open the envelope for more performance and even bolder design, but it also opens up the Camaro to be more adventurous in it's design without worrying about stepping on the Corvette's toes. I see the performance car breakdown of GM as follows:Chevrolet:
Camaro: Front Engine Muscle/Sport Coupe - $25k-$70k
Corvette: Mid Engine Sport/Supercar - $60k-$150k
Cadillac:
[Unknown Name]: Front Engine Luxury Sports Coupe - $90k-$150k
Interesting times
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ArmchairArchitect (07-10-2018)
07-09-2018, 09:56 AM
#243
Team Owner
07-09-2018, 10:01 AM
#244
Le Mans Master
Part of this thought is reading posts from other threads, where many seem to believe Corvette should be a stand alone brand, and/or fall under the Cadillac umbrella. Either way, my point is that Cadillac is not a far fetched idea for such a car. They have a successful performance program, they have experience with a 2 seat coupe, that did garner positive attention in it's day, both of them actually. So, without a competing FE Corvette, it could be rather successful for them.
07-09-2018, 04:50 PM
#245
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Dec 2005
Location: Port Arthur, Texas 77642
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Selling price and cost do not always parallel. Manufacturers / sellers usually make higher ROI for products with high end features that some will pay for without hesitation because they WANT it. That's business 101 and it goes on every day with successful companies. If a company isn't doing this they are missing out.
09-25-2018, 07:47 PM
#246
I just read this thread and found it very interesting. I don't see a ME as a replacement for the FE C8 but rather as an addition. Corvette has the low end sports car market to itself. Why would they want to abandon that place in the market. Right now there is a huge range of prices for Corvette enthusiasts. There are folks like me who need to keep the price on the low end and those who can and will part with the big bucks for a truly special high end sports car. Corvette's reputation is one of a great value. I don't see them giving that away. It wouldn't make any sense.
What I really find astounding is the hatred here for the Camaro. I drive a 2016 Stingray (LT1). It is a daily driver for me. I really love my car and wouldn't trade it for anything. It is a bare bones Stingray without many options.
My husband just bought a Camaro ZL1 as a daily driver. Both are great cars in their own right but they are not the same car. My husband doesn't like how low the Corvette is. He does not find the ride in the Camaro punishing but he does not have the track package. I have heard the ride is more punishing with the track package. He also likes all the creature comforts that came in the Camaro for a lower price than my Stingray. While the sticker price on the Camaro was about the same as my Stingray, the price out the door was lower. The Camaro is plenty fast and handles well enough for daily driving.
I am not understanding the hatred here. The reason there are so many cars on the market is that there are lots of different people who like different things.
What I really find astounding is the hatred here for the Camaro. I drive a 2016 Stingray (LT1). It is a daily driver for me. I really love my car and wouldn't trade it for anything. It is a bare bones Stingray without many options.
My husband just bought a Camaro ZL1 as a daily driver. Both are great cars in their own right but they are not the same car. My husband doesn't like how low the Corvette is. He does not find the ride in the Camaro punishing but he does not have the track package. I have heard the ride is more punishing with the track package. He also likes all the creature comforts that came in the Camaro for a lower price than my Stingray. While the sticker price on the Camaro was about the same as my Stingray, the price out the door was lower. The Camaro is plenty fast and handles well enough for daily driving.
I am not understanding the hatred here. The reason there are so many cars on the market is that there are lots of different people who like different things.
I don't hate Camaros at all, but I don't consider it a rival to the Corvette. The Camaro is a muscle car which as of late has been bestowed with extraordinary handling capabilities, the Corvette is a GT sports car more akin to a Ferrari 488 GTB, Porsche 911, etc. The car weenies who wring their hands over 'Ring lap times, etc. - well, that's US, not the VAST majority of Corvette customers. For them the styling, handling, design, the whole Corvette EXPERIENCE- well that's what they seek (me too) and I can't get that with a Camaro for a number of reasons, none of which are a knock on that car at all, at least not from me.
GM will lose customers on the C8 by simple virtue of the fact that without that big hatchback area - where I can fit my bicycle now - that's going away with a mid-engine car Which will make the new car harder to live with. And that will be if they HOLD the pricing to where I expect to see it - a base C8 with 500 bhp for $59,900. That would push a car like my LT2 C7 which stickered @ about $71K - up to $76K. That's a lotta dough. You guys may think that's a 'bargain' compared to a $300K Ferrari, but the customer for the Corvette generally can't even breathe @ those financial altitudes.. $70K-$90K for C8 Corvettes is already pushing the price envelope if you really want to move 20-30K cars annually. And that's the entire basis for the existing Corvette business model, which is arguably the most successful in the sports car business.
I'd bet the ranch GM won't eff with that. C8 cars with $65K-$85k MSRPs will let dealers get list price for a couple of years and they'll sell them in the high volumes GM has enjoyed for 60 years. That didn't happen by accident. That's because THEY DON'T OVER PRICE THE CAR.
Last edited by patentcad; 09-25-2018 at 07:49 PM.
09-25-2018, 07:50 PM
#247
P.S. At that $65K-$85K price,GM will make a ton of money on the C8.
09-25-2018, 08:25 PM
#248
Burning Brakes
Its so amusing to read all of the experts opinions and facts on here. It is comical actually.
This new car whatever it is wont change a thing except its motor is behind the driver, period.
For 60k or so youll get a 60k car just as before.
i happen to think its a hidious design but who cares what i think.
for all of the Camaro haters let me tell ya the new Gen 6 2SS and ZL1s rock and are as nice or nicer than a vette.
more room and more *****. Vettes are now going to be for someone asking for grey poupon at a stop light.
Camparing a vette to a Ferrari or lambo is insane. The most expensive corvettes have sold for maybe $150k or so.
Ferrari has sold cars for 45Million recently.
its fantasy land thinkin the new vette is a super car, a 60k super car? Nope.
sorry just needed some reality mentioned.
This new car whatever it is wont change a thing except its motor is behind the driver, period.
For 60k or so youll get a 60k car just as before.
i happen to think its a hidious design but who cares what i think.
for all of the Camaro haters let me tell ya the new Gen 6 2SS and ZL1s rock and are as nice or nicer than a vette.
more room and more *****. Vettes are now going to be for someone asking for grey poupon at a stop light.
Camparing a vette to a Ferrari or lambo is insane. The most expensive corvettes have sold for maybe $150k or so.
Ferrari has sold cars for 45Million recently.
its fantasy land thinkin the new vette is a super car, a 60k super car? Nope.
sorry just needed some reality mentioned.
Last edited by Yarbie; 09-25-2018 at 08:29 PM.
09-25-2018, 10:36 PM
#249
That’s actually an apples to oranges comparison. One is a new Corvette ZR1 & the other is an ultra rare 55 year old Ferrari.
09-25-2018, 11:05 PM
#250
09-25-2018, 11:39 PM
#251
Burning Brakes
09-26-2018, 06:50 AM
#253
I like my Corvette. It is my very own WTF (White Trash Ferrari). And I say that as a white guy who can actually spell and manage English grammar, which is not a universally shared caucasian skill.
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09-26-2018, 12:50 PM
#254
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
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Its so amusing to read all of the experts opinions and facts on here. It is comical actually.
This new car whatever it is wont change a thing except its motor is behind the driver, period.
For 60k or so youll get a 60k car just as before.
i happen to think its a hidious design but who cares what i think.
for all of the Camaro haters let me tell ya the new Gen 6 2SS and ZL1s rock and are as nice or nicer than a vette.
more room and more *****. Vettes are now going to be for someone asking for grey poupon at a stop light.
Camparing a vette to a Ferrari or lambo is insane. The most expensive corvettes have sold for maybe $150k or so.
Ferrari has sold cars for 45Million recently.
its fantasy land thinkin the new vette is a super car, a 60k super car? Nope.
sorry just needed some reality mentioned.
This new car whatever it is wont change a thing except its motor is behind the driver, period.
For 60k or so youll get a 60k car just as before.
i happen to think its a hidious design but who cares what i think.
for all of the Camaro haters let me tell ya the new Gen 6 2SS and ZL1s rock and are as nice or nicer than a vette.
more room and more *****. Vettes are now going to be for someone asking for grey poupon at a stop light.
Camparing a vette to a Ferrari or lambo is insane. The most expensive corvettes have sold for maybe $150k or so.
Ferrari has sold cars for 45Million recently.
its fantasy land thinkin the new vette is a super car, a 60k super car? Nope.
sorry just needed some reality mentioned.
Limit production like Ferrari and Lambo do and you have a Corvette priced the same with basically the same features. Fancy leather doesn't cost several hundred thousand dollars.
Bill
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09-27-2018, 12:27 PM
#256
Drifting
I have been lurking and thinking here. In the past couple of years they have brought Camaro almost to the level of the Stingray in HP and even price. Could GMs idea for a ME Corvette be to chase away the $60K Corvette buyer to the now very similar in HP Camaro? It seems to me GM has for the last few model years been upping the ante on the Camaro to the point that some specs are very close to the base Stingray. Could this have been the plan all along. If the mid engine car is priced near $90K its going to price a lot of buyers out of the Corvette market and suddenly bolster the Camaro sales its just a thought.
I doubt Chevrolet wants to screw up what has worked since the 60's. I realize the Corvette is older, but it has held the same place in the lineup since the other sporty and muscle cars have came around. I also do not think a Corvette buyer is going to care to much that the Camaro has the same specs. It is still not a 2 seat sports car with an open roof. It is not the same kind of car. IT would be a very risky and a potential death blow to the 'Vette to price it out of it's current market.
09-27-2018, 07:19 PM
#257
Team Owner
09-29-2018, 04:08 PM
#259
Melting Slicks
I believe there will be a C8 designation. I do not believe there will likely be a C9 designation. I believe there will always be a front engine Corvette and that there will likely always be a mid engine Corvette. But, they will of necessity evolve on different timelines. Hence, no more generational designations. Overlapping designations won’t work. Perhaps all FE cars will have primary designations of Gran Sport and all ME cars will have primary designations of Zora and each GS or Zora vehicle will have sub names or numerical designations. Who knows at this point?
Fundamentally, Corvette will not long survive as a one trick ME pony. GM is smarter than that and historically, GM Corvette has always taken baby steps. No big leaps. But, we will see.
Fundamentally, Corvette will not long survive as a one trick ME pony. GM is smarter than that and historically, GM Corvette has always taken baby steps. No big leaps. But, we will see.
10-01-2018, 05:34 PM
#260
Instructor
Just about everything on the C8 or whatever the ME car in the photos is actually is conjecture. To the premise of the original question, if the ME car is the C8 and prices me out of the ability to purchase it I would not be pushed to the Camaro, I would purchase a Mustang first. I presently have a 2017 so it is all a few years into the future but I am speaking to the current state of the Camaro and Mustang.