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You're right, it wouldn't make any sense at all if they are priced comparatively. IMO...the goal of the Zora is taking performance up to a level where ZR1 cannot reach and starting at $140k-$150k will separate the 2 cars.
Since we're all here speculating, let me give MY wild @ss guess.
What if the ME that we're seeing being tested isn't a Corvette AT ALL?
Hear me out. It isn't a Corvette in the traditional sense, that it's not a "C8" but a CZ1...A Corvette branded super car. A Corvette Zora, if you will. This isn't going to be the 8th generation of the Corvette, but the FIRST generation of the Corvette Zora platform. A super halo the likes that Chevy has never had before. Ford has their GT, Dodge had Viper, Acura has their NSX, Audi has their R8, BMW has their i8, list goes ON AND ON. The Corvette has been Chevrolet's top end performance car, but it's priced to be just a hair over what most people aspire to. Chevy never had a true halo car.
This, the CZ1, would be IT. They can charge a premium for it, with a mid engine layout, top end engine (turbocharged DOHC V8), high-end tech, top tier interior and badge it like a Corvette, sell it for $150,000+ base. They won't have to sell this at the same volume as the current Corvette, but if they sell 500-1,000 a year, it would be a success. The halo CZ1, or gen 1 Corvette Zora, will then in turn pull sales of C7 up because those that can't afford the Zora, will by C7s.
C7 will continue to be made until 2020-2021, otherwise, for C7 to stop production once the mid engine CZ1 comes out, that would mean the C7 was in production for a short 6 years, tops. C7 will have to continue to be produced into 2020 as 2021 model to make it the same as C5 production run, 2021 as a 2022 model to match C6. By U.S. only sales numbers, the C7 have so far kept pace in sales with C6 and have been ahead of C5, so there's no reason to stop the production short, especially given the "labor of love" that it took to bring the C7 to life just shortly after the government bail-out.
From this point on, there'll be 2 separate line-ups: A Corvette Zora, mid engined, $150K+ base super car, a car that will take the fight to the likes of Porsche's 718 Spyder, Ferrari's 488, McLaren's 570s, etc, for about 1/2 the price. And a Corvette C7 for a few years, and a C8 in maybe 2022 that's priced at ~$60K base to match up performance wise against the likes of Porsche 911, Acura NSX, Audi R8, Nissan GTR, BMW M4...etc for thousands less.
Since we're all here speculating, let me give MY wild @ss guess.
What if the ME that we're seeing being tested isn't a Corvette AT ALL?
Hear me out. It isn't a Corvette in the traditional sense, that it's not a "C8" but a CZ1...A Corvette branded super car. A Corvette Zora, if you will. This isn't going to be the 8th generation of the Corvette, but the FIRST generation of the Corvette Zora platform. A super halo the likes that Chevy has never had before. Ford has their GT, Dodge had Viper, Acura has their NSX, Audi has their R8, BMW has their i8, list goes ON AND ON. The Corvette has been Chevrolet's top end performance car, but it's priced to be just a hair over what most people aspire to. Chevy never had a true halo car.
This, the CZ1, would be IT. They can charge a premium for it, with a mid engine layout, top end engine (turbocharged DOHC V8), high-end tech, top tier interior and badge it like a Corvette, sell it for $150,000+ base. They won't have to sell this at the same volume as the current Corvette, but if they sell 500-1,000 a year, it would be a success. The halo CZ1, or gen 1 Corvette Zora, will then in turn pull sales of C7 up because those that can't afford the Zora, will by C7s.
C7 will continue to be made until 2020-2021, otherwise, for C7 to stop production once the mid engine CZ1 comes out, that would mean the C7 was in production for a short 6 years, tops. C7 will have to continue to be produced into 2020 as 2021 model to make it the same as C5 production run, 2021 as a 2022 model to match C6. By U.S. only sales numbers, the C7 have so far kept pace in sales with C6 and have been ahead of C5, so there's no reason to stop the production short, especially given the "labor of love" that it took to bring the C7 to life just shortly after the government bail-out.
From this point on, there'll be 2 separate line-ups: A Corvette Zora, mid engined, $150K+ base super car, a car that will take the fight to the likes of Porsche's 718 Spyder, Ferrari's 488, McLaren's 570s, etc, for about 1/2 the price. And a Corvette C7 for a few years, and a C8 in maybe 2022 that's priced at ~$60K base to match up performance wise against the likes of Porsche 911, Acura NSX, Audi R8, Nissan GTR, BMW M4...etc for thousands less.
That would be MY game plan.
Other than some of the specific price points, this is what I've been saying all along.
No. At the end of the day, GM still wants to make money. The Ford GT for example, cost $450k and I don't think Ford made any money on the effort. Would you spend $400k on a vette? I wouldn't. I'd gladly come in at $150k for the halo ME C8. . . GM is throwing a lot of money at this next generation; they're not going to be making some unicorn that won't turn a profit. Compounding this, if this were a 'halo' car as stated, that means we haven't heard a -single- thing about the 'actual' C8 development, which takes years to turn into a production vehicle, suggestion the C7 corvette would be at minimum, a ~8 year body style, something GM has stated they don't want to happen (long running generations).
This. Someone gets it. Naturally we could all be wrong. But the bean counters are the ones building cars at GM, which means it's much more UN-likely that the Mid-Engine is a halo car. Heck, this section is called C8. Time will tell...but the mid-engine will likely be a full model range car.
Lastly, they just unveiled the ZR1, so I doubt they'd unveil a ZR1 rival or 'halo' car less than a 12-18 months later. GM is about the bottom line.
This poll was difficult, because I really do like pie. Nothing quite like a warm meat pie and a glass of fresh breast milk.
Had pie not been an option, I would've selected all C8's are going to be ME. I personally believe that if the ME is strictly a halo car, it will be amazing...but also A LOT more than $169K. A halo car in low volume will be very expensive to produce. Moreover, I just can't see GM splitting the brand into two different platforms. Having said this, I'm also a bit skeptical about GM producing a quality ME style vette for $70K.
As long as we're throwing out personal predictions based on nothing substantial, Here's mine:
The ME car will replace the FE car. No more front-engine Corvettes once production of the ME car begins. It will come in multiple versions and equipment levels, from the "base" car at around $70K to the *****-out version at up to $160K.
ME will be affordable for most consumers that can afford a heavy loaded C7 Z51 today. Not concerned about the FE as I have my thoughts on its future and can’t share at this time. GM is not building a high priced 150k plus out the gates hallo ME, The financial risk verses the financial impact reward does not make business sense for the brand. GM has never gone in that direction and is not changing now. They are not Ferrari and other high end specialty car manufacturers, they know their place. Winning races against Ferrari and others on the track and being affordable within reason is genius marketing, why change this direction it’s been working for over 60 plus years. I know many say look at Ford with the new GT. The previous gen came out in 2003 at a super high price of 125k plus. That was Fords low production Halo car. Corvette has always been an affordable two seat sports car, that philosophy that made Corvette into the car it is today is not changing. I have owned many high end ME in my time and Chevrolet is not a logical choice for a 150k plus Halo sports car.
I would love to be the man in the room when they presented to the uppers at GM a Halo ME. Hey We have this great idea we will build a new ME under the affordable Chevrolet brand name and the starting price will be well over 150k and we need 900 million and a plant upgrade to make this happen. CFO would have replied your all fired.
Anyway here is a good article that makes me feel their is no high priced Halo car the new ME is the replacement and next Gen. Good read from Tadge Juechter, Corvette's chief engineer about corvetteand his thoughts. Below is a section pulled out of the article.
? Ask to Tadge Juechter Why do you think Corvette has been able to stay around for so long when the rest of the domestic auto industry has struggled?
Tadge- It’s staying true to the mission of the car. Corvette has had its moments where it almost died. I don’t want it to seem like we’ve had a free ride the whole way. But if you look at other vehicles that are the successful long-term, they tend to stay true to their mission. They don’t try to wander off and be something they’re not. There are plenty of examples where cars tried to get bigger, or go from four passengers to two, or tried to migrate upmarket. They get cocky and think, “Wow, we could sell these things at a much higher price — let’s do an upscale version.” That doesn’t work. You have to stay true to what you are.
I'd expect a base ME to be at R8 V8 pricing with a halo version going much higher. Z06 version at R8 V10 pricing.
I also think the basic corvette concept is starting to see its end really. I don't like it any more than the rest of you but the days of loud powerful engines are counted. Fully expecting a hybrid drivetrain and I think that for RWD this is made easier with a mid or rear engine, allowing plenty of room for an electric drivetrain up front.
I have an R8 starting price is 169k v10 only the V8 stoped production during the last gen in 2015, price for that car was 134k R8 will be discontinued in 2020/2021. No more R8 not selling well plus new engine by by V10 thanks to emissions. Loaded out V10 plus is around 216k+. Most People spending north of 170k are buying into the brand name and the high end lifestyle experience not just performance, gets to be about bragging rights and stupid stuff. Love the R8 but to much competition once you go over 200k.
^^^^^
I would agree if this was GM of 20 years ago. NOW, after all they've been through, there's no way that they have piled this much money into a car THIS IMPORTANT to screw it up by trying to price the car like something it isn't.
^^^^^
I would agree if this was GM of 20 years ago. NOW, after all they've been through, there's no way that they have piled this much money into a car THIS IMPORTANT to screw it up by trying to price the car like something it isn't.
Correct plus the shift to a new platform like a mid engine is already risky for the brand and with their base that made them successful. Why create more risk by competing against higher priced car companies that been producing very successful ME for decades. By coming in at a lower price reduces risk and you don’t alienate your current audience while gaining new ones. It’s a win win strategy.
A $150K plus "supercar" does nothing for me... but I guess there are a lot of people a lot more wealth than I am. a $65K ME "Z51" type car would have me buying a new car immediately.
I think if the front engine Corvette is going to live on beyond the C7 that would be the entry level 65k Corvette.
Now if the C7 is the end of the front engine Corvette you may get your wish for an inexpensive 65k entry level mid engine Corvette.
No way Chevy need to entry level Corvette for sale competing against each other.
I hope for continued C7 and a future C7.5 as the entry level 65k Corvette and the Mid engine Zora as the high performance variation of the Corvette priced around 90k to start to compete with the 911. Then with higher performance model that will approach the 150 plus range.
This way the mid engine does not have to cut corners on the interior quality and tech to try to keep the entry level Corvette enthusiasts who want in the game at 65k and still get near super car performance but will live with a lesser quality of interior material and don't have to have the latest in tech.
That's would be a win win for GM keep the old guard Corvette guys happy with front GT layout and bring in the new Corvette buyer looking for an upmarket experience.
The hard core Corvette buyers wouldnt be flocking to the second best American sports car.Guaranteed,
regardless of engine upgrades,and design tweaking .
If GM was smart they would use ME halo car to launch Corvette as a separate brand and start building different models under Corvette name(like Stingray, Zora, etc.). Let it fully be free from the Chevrolet brand(I will be nice and not elaborate).
Never going to happen. The dealer net work is not going to invest a minimum of 6 million in land and a new facility to sell an average of 30 cars per month.
The largest Corvette dealership currently has 1 dealership that's sell 50 cars per month.
I be willing to bet the average Chevy dealer sells less than 10 Corvette per month.
Take in to account not only the cost of land and building at a minimum of 6 million now you have to have a separate sales staff ,management staff , F&I dept, service department, parts department , detail get ready dept. There just no enough gross profit in the dale of 50 Corvettes per month let alone the avg of 10 Corvette per month to support the overhead.
No way any dealer is going to invest that kind of capital based on Corvette sales.
The factor in that BG can now only produce 33k car per year at max output there not enough built to support the dealership net work of a Corvette only dealership.
Last then GM would have to compensate all the dealership that did not agree to build a separate facility for the loss of the ability to sell and service a Corvette .
CORVETTE WILL NEVER BE A SEPARATE BRAND.
I been in the car business my entire life and I would not invest large amounts of capital Ina product that you cannot sell enough of to support the overhead.
I agree that Corvette is not going to separate from Chevy/GM. That said there's this new "family" concept that could work. It use to be "Dodge Ram" trucks. Now it is just Ram trucks. There aren't separate Ram dealers and all the overhead that comes with that. And I'm pretty sure on registration it is still make Dodge, model Ram. But dealerships now look like this:
There could easily be a Corvette family with Chevy Corvette Zora and Chevy Corvette Stingray (or however they are named). There'd be no need for new dealerships. At most there's Corvette flags added next to the bowtie on a dealership sign/wall.
I agree that Corvette is not going to separate from Chevy/GM. That said there's this new "family" concept that could work. It use to be "Dodge Ram" trucks. Now it is just Ram trucks. There aren't separate Ram dealers and all the overhead that comes with that. And I'm pretty sure on registration it is still make Dodge, model Ram. But dealerships now look like this:
There could easily be a Corvette family with Chevy Corvette Zora and Chevy Corvette Stingray (or however they are named). There'd be no need for new dealerships. At most there's Corvette flags added next to the bowtie on a dealership sign/wall.
I can agree with that. The thread I replied to stated a separate dealership.
Hyundai attempted to do just that and break out the Genesis line from the Hyundai dealership.
Did not work as the dealership principles all said noway are they build a separate facilities to sell the Genesis brand.
The compromise was to designate a small portion of the showroom to just the Genesis brand and have specific trained sales person to sell the Genesis.
If GM tried to separate Corvette away from the current facility there would be few dealers that would invest that capital and lots of lawsuit from dealership that would no longer be able to sell or service the Corvette.
Make no mistake the NADA is a powerful group and GM would not want to **** off it dealer base.
GM sell all their cars including the Corvettes to their dealership base not to the public. As long a dealership are order and paying for the Corvette GM could careless if the sign out front says Chevrolet or Zora or anything else.
Never going to happen. The dealer net work is not going to invest a minimum of 6 million in land and a new facility to sell an average of 30 cars per month.
Not needed.
They can do something like Mercedes did recently with AMG. Benz dealers now have separate area/showrooms at dealerships specifically for all AMG GT models and new AMG GT-4.
Not saying it will happen, but it should be done. If they truly want to take Corvette branding up market with an additional halo car. While still racing under the Corvette Racing banner.
Originally Posted by vetteman41960
I can agree with that. The thread I replied to stated a separate dealership.
As far as racing I’m sure C8R is targeting FGT but also 488, Mc, AM, Porsche etc.
i hewed there may be an ME & FE but I have no confirmation. Chevy CANNOT ignore it’s loyal
customers. They WILL have an affordable C8 & an expensive full boat model
Never going to happen. The dealer net work is not going to invest a minimum of 6 million in land and a new facility to sell an average of 30 cars per month.
The largest Corvette dealership currently has 1 dealership that's sell 50 cars per month.
I be willing to bet the average Chevy dealer sells less than 10 Corvette per month.
Take in to account not only the cost of land and building at a minimum of 6 million now you have to have a separate sales staff ,management staff , F&I dept, service department, parts department , detail get ready dept. There just no enough gross profit in the dale of 50 Corvettes per month let alone the avg of 10 Corvette per month to support the overhead.
No way any dealer is going to invest that kind of capital based on Corvette sales.
The factor in that BG can now only produce 33k car per year at max output there not enough built to support the dealership net work of a Corvette only dealership.
Last then GM would have to compensate all the dealership that did not agree to build a separate facility for the loss of the ability to sell and service a Corvette .
CORVETTE WILL NEVER BE A SEPARATE BRAND.
I been in the car business my entire life and I would not invest large amounts of capital Ina product that you cannot sell enough of to support the overhead.
You're wrong. Corvette can be a separate brand and yet still sold/serviced at Chevy or Cadillac dealerships and they then become combo dealerships like many are in the auto world. No new infrastructure needed. Look at Scion (Toyota + Scion dealerships), many BMW dealerships are also Mini dealerships, etc.
The current Chevy branding really cheapens the Corvette brand. I synonimize "Chevy" with "redneck".
Last edited by ArmchairArchitect; 08-15-2018 at 01:40 PM.
08-14-2018, 02:52 PM
