C8, believe me now?
09-10-2018, 10:42 PM
#101
Team Owner
I love it. I posted over in the AskTadge forum a few months back, if GM would ever get rid of that gods-awful old-school obsolete shifter stalk, for the automatic cars - it's clunky, ugly, un-necessary, and takes up console space that can be put to better use. Sounds like GM designers think the same, for C8.
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firstvettesoon (10-14-2018)
10-14-2018, 10:23 AM
#104
That picture has been posted everywhere
https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZitTFnVPnR5CDgwuXSoAU n716xnogyNQ9EC8LQ2TS9Ur-92Alan4Qdp5O1L4ZqT2dHJCJxuAFgR_1GKnH_1CZ oeiCfQfqPx2Lq5aHLis_1d44EVwxqCu3m4srW67v tfC8DC4oH10hY3VmfwxmjTEwJ3wdbwMwtKTyd5LA 8zrIc4VVgpLB1cQ4nhpCO_1-IB3CfEoccZHane2Ec2GpL8x3byslQ6ipnjvANird n-3Ik6DkcZYY7wpBkIXIoKK4HZosheeTUSm_1FQyMQ ZZW7v3IvbQKkHbFwmF8RxIBZ7mRJF8zVIG0EV_1a 0yoHv8g2pdht0-IUqOYlvskHB0u82Uilz0RpumGzGniDA&ei=TVHDW 5nUHrGd_QaeuI74CA&start=0&sa=N&biw=1707& bih=707
Looks familiar
http://www.corvetteconti.com/blog/?p=32058
https://www.google.com/search?tbs=sbi:AMhZZitTFnVPnR5CDgwuXSoAU n716xnogyNQ9EC8LQ2TS9Ur-92Alan4Qdp5O1L4ZqT2dHJCJxuAFgR_1GKnH_1CZ oeiCfQfqPx2Lq5aHLis_1d44EVwxqCu3m4srW67v tfC8DC4oH10hY3VmfwxmjTEwJ3wdbwMwtKTyd5LA 8zrIc4VVgpLB1cQ4nhpCO_1-IB3CfEoccZHane2Ec2GpL8x3byslQ6ipnjvANird n-3Ik6DkcZYY7wpBkIXIoKK4HZosheeTUSm_1FQyMQ ZZW7v3IvbQKkHbFwmF8RxIBZ7mRJF8zVIG0EV_1a 0yoHv8g2pdht0-IUqOYlvskHB0u82Uilz0RpumGzGniDA&ei=TVHDW 5nUHrGd_QaeuI74CA&start=0&sa=N&biw=1707& bih=707
Looks familiar
http://www.corvetteconti.com/blog/?p=32058
Last edited by 5Axis; 10-14-2018 at 10:27 AM.
10-14-2018, 05:45 PM
#106
Team Owner
A DCT is an automatic transmission, with or without a torque convertor, as it has the ability to automatically shift gears with zero input for the driver of the car.
Last edited by JoesC5; 10-14-2018 at 05:56 PM.
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firstvettesoon (10-14-2018)
10-14-2018, 06:19 PM
#107
Are you aware that a DCT can also have a torque convertor. In fact, Acura has such an animal in one of their 4 door sedans, and GM also has a patent on a DCT with a torque convertor.
A DCT is an automatic transmission, with or without a torque convertor, as it has the ability to automatically shift gears with zero input for the driver of the car.
A DCT is an automatic transmission, with or without a torque convertor, as it has the ability to automatically shift gears with zero input for the driver of the car.
Besides... it's Honda/Acura for the ILX. A far cry from a C8 (or any sports car). It's not like Ferrari, Lambo, BMW, Porsche or others couldn't build one for their sports cars but they don't... cause it's dumb!
Modern DCT's are very fast, work well in auto mode and around town and maintain a more direct mechanical feel/experience. Not to mention they are ridiculously fast. Why mess with that by adding an unneeded (in a sports car) torque converter... again... blah...
Last edited by gthal; 10-14-2018 at 06:25 PM.
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vettesweetnos (10-18-2018)
10-14-2018, 07:34 PM
#108
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by gthal
A torque converter would ruin a DCT. If GM did that, they might as well put a regular auto in it. The torque converter would mute the mechanical and direct feel of a DCT. Blah...
Besides... it's Honda/Acura for the ILX. A far cry from a C8 (or any sports car). It's not like Ferrari, Lambo, BMW, Porsche or others couldn't build one for their sports cars but they don't... cause it's dumb! Modern DCT's are very fast, work well in auto mode and around town and maintain a more direct mechanical feel/experience. Not to mention they are ridiculously fast. Why mess with that by adding an unneeded (in a sports car) torque converter... again... blah...
Besides... it's Honda/Acura for the ILX. A far cry from a C8 (or any sports car). It's not like Ferrari, Lambo, BMW, Porsche or others couldn't build one for their sports cars but they don't... cause it's dumb!
Modern DCT's are very fast, work well in auto mode and around town and maintain a more direct mechanical feel/experience. Not to mention they are ridiculously fast. Why mess with that by adding an unneeded (in a sports car) torque converter... again... blah...
10-14-2018, 07:59 PM
#109
Race Director
10-14-2018, 10:53 PM
#110
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Zaro Tundov (10-15-2018)
10-15-2018, 04:02 AM
#111
Anyhow, I think the point of the torque converter in the DCT is to improve its ability to handle low speed situations, where even Porsche's PDK still has trouble at times. It they could use a lockable (or clutchable) torque converter was only in use at the initial engagement of first gear, it might give the best of both worlds - the rapid, positive shifts of a clutch transmission, with the smoothness of a TC at low speeds where a clutch would otherwise need to be slipped.
I would personally prefer a stick shift though. However, I do sometimes wonder what I like about them. Is it the clutch pedal, the action of the shifter, or the combination of the two? Or maybe something else.
I know that in my wife's XC90, I much prefer the "bump shift" on the gear lever (to manually choose gears), to paddle shifters. So clearly the action of the shifter is part of it. If the car had a sequential transmission that only required a clutch to start, would I still like it? I think I would need to learn left foot braking in order to still feel like I was fully engaged. So I guess the clutch pedal giving my left leg something to do is part of the fun for me. What if it was like an arcade video game, with a clutch pedal and gated style shifter, but both were connected only to electronic sensors that would cause clutches and gears to engage appropriately? And what if those systems would only engage when the computer deemed it safe (no "money shifts")? Would I still like that even though it has both a clutch and the action of the shifter? I think in the end, I really like knowing that not only did I chose when to make things occur, but I also controlled how they occurred. So in addition to having something for my various limbs to do, I get satisfaction executing a good heel/toe downshift, or a smooth upshift, or a good launch. I am not a very fast driver, but I'm OK with that, and I prefer having the control to being faster by a few tenths (or even full seconds) due to having faster shifts.
For me, a DCT will never satisfy in the same way as a manual. Although maybe the arcade system would come close.
And, just to get back on topic, nice interior shots.
-T
Last edited by Trackaholic; 10-15-2018 at 04:07 AM.
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Zaro Tundov (10-15-2018)
10-16-2018, 12:45 PM
#112
Melting Slicks
After you have a driven a manual for a while, say five or ten years, the how becomes automated and you no longer have to think about it. It is second nature, learned reflex, etc. At that point, you still must determine when a downshift is required and, also, what gear you should downshift to. Up shifts are a little simpler since you are almost always up shifting to the next available gear. Your primary job is to keep the engine "on the boil" and to be in the correct gear as you approach the apex of a corner. A manually driven DCT does not do that for you.
First, you should NEVER skip gears downshifting. That leads to money shifts. Watch in car of racecars with manuals, they always go down each gear, often letting the clutch out with each shift. That is exactly what we teach at HPDE schools. Going 6th to 4th can easily turn into 6th to 2nd. 5th to 3rd into 5th to 1st. Don't cut corners. If you do this, get an instructor in the car.
Second, it's not just determining when and then downshifting, at least if you want to do it right. You still need to rev-match. A high RPM downshift (not common on the street of course, but very common on track) can (and usually will) "lock" the rearend of the car and cause the car to veer. Rev-matching helps with that (among other things). Most DCTs take care of the rev-match.
Third, that oh so fun and delicate act of heavy braking, combined with the downshift (which requires an entire ARM and a foot/leg), combined with rev-matching. Alot of fun in getting all three pedals in action at the same time, while shifting, and steering the car. DCT... left foot brake, computer rev-matches, you flick a paddle without removing your hands from the wheel, computer disengages clutch, shifts gears, then off you go. Technically superior and faster, but without a doubt not as fun or as challenging. And as long as you select the right gear, DCT does make it much easier to keep the engine "on the boil".
10-16-2018, 01:35 PM
#113
Safety Car
So much wrong here.
First, you should NEVER skip gears downshifting. That leads to money shifts. Watch in car of racecars with manuals, they always go down each gear, often letting the clutch out with each shift. That is exactly what we teach at HPDE schools. Going 6th to 4th can easily turn into 6th to 2nd. 5th to 3rd into 5th to 1st. Don't cut corners. If you do this, get an instructor in the car.
Second, it's not just determining when and then downshifting, at least if you want to do it right. You still need to rev-match. A high RPM downshift (not common on the street of course, but very common on track) can (and usually will) "lock" the rearend of the car and cause the car to veer. Rev-matching helps with that (among other things). Most DCTs take care of the rev-match.
Third, that oh so fun and delicate act of heavy braking, combined with the downshift (which requires an entire ARM and a foot/leg), combined with rev-matching. Alot of fun in getting all three pedals in action at the same time, while shifting, and steering the car. DCT... left foot brake, computer rev-matches, you flick a paddle without removing your hands from the wheel, computer disengages clutch, shifts gears, then off you go. Technically superior and faster, but without a doubt not as fun or as challenging. And as long as you select the right gear, DCT does make it much easier to keep the engine "on the boil".
First, you should NEVER skip gears downshifting. That leads to money shifts. Watch in car of racecars with manuals, they always go down each gear, often letting the clutch out with each shift. That is exactly what we teach at HPDE schools. Going 6th to 4th can easily turn into 6th to 2nd. 5th to 3rd into 5th to 1st. Don't cut corners. If you do this, get an instructor in the car.
Second, it's not just determining when and then downshifting, at least if you want to do it right. You still need to rev-match. A high RPM downshift (not common on the street of course, but very common on track) can (and usually will) "lock" the rearend of the car and cause the car to veer. Rev-matching helps with that (among other things). Most DCTs take care of the rev-match.
Third, that oh so fun and delicate act of heavy braking, combined with the downshift (which requires an entire ARM and a foot/leg), combined with rev-matching. Alot of fun in getting all three pedals in action at the same time, while shifting, and steering the car. DCT... left foot brake, computer rev-matches, you flick a paddle without removing your hands from the wheel, computer disengages clutch, shifts gears, then off you go. Technically superior and faster, but without a doubt not as fun or as challenging. And as long as you select the right gear, DCT does make it much easier to keep the engine "on the boil".
10-16-2018, 11:44 PM
#115
So much wrong here.
First, you should NEVER skip gears downshifting. That leads to money shifts. Watch in car of racecars with manuals, they always go down each gear, often letting the clutch out with each shift. That is exactly what we teach at HPDE schools. Going 6th to 4th can easily turn into 6th to 2nd. 5th to 3rd into 5th to 1st. Don't cut corners. If you do this, get an instructor in the car.
Second, it's not just determining when and then downshifting, at least if you want to do it right. You still need to rev-match. A high RPM downshift (not common on the street of course, but very common on track) can (and usually will) "lock" the rearend of the car and cause the car to veer. Rev-matching helps with that (among other things). Most DCTs take care of the rev-match.
Third, that oh so fun and delicate act of heavy braking, combined with the downshift (which requires an entire ARM and a foot/leg), combined with rev-matching. Alot of fun in getting all three pedals in action at the same time, while shifting, and steering the car. DCT... left foot brake, computer rev-matches, you flick a paddle without removing your hands from the wheel, computer disengages clutch, shifts gears, then off you go. Technically superior and faster, but without a doubt not as fun or as challenging. And as long as you select the right gear, DCT does make it much easier to keep the engine "on the boil".
First, you should NEVER skip gears downshifting. That leads to money shifts. Watch in car of racecars with manuals, they always go down each gear, often letting the clutch out with each shift. That is exactly what we teach at HPDE schools. Going 6th to 4th can easily turn into 6th to 2nd. 5th to 3rd into 5th to 1st. Don't cut corners. If you do this, get an instructor in the car.
Second, it's not just determining when and then downshifting, at least if you want to do it right. You still need to rev-match. A high RPM downshift (not common on the street of course, but very common on track) can (and usually will) "lock" the rearend of the car and cause the car to veer. Rev-matching helps with that (among other things). Most DCTs take care of the rev-match.
Third, that oh so fun and delicate act of heavy braking, combined with the downshift (which requires an entire ARM and a foot/leg), combined with rev-matching. Alot of fun in getting all three pedals in action at the same time, while shifting, and steering the car. DCT... left foot brake, computer rev-matches, you flick a paddle without removing your hands from the wheel, computer disengages clutch, shifts gears, then off you go. Technically superior and faster, but without a doubt not as fun or as challenging. And as long as you select the right gear, DCT does make it much easier to keep the engine "on the boil".
Last edited by PurpleLion; 10-17-2018 at 07:56 AM.
10-18-2018, 09:29 AM
#117
So much wrong here.
First, you should NEVER skip gears downshifting. That leads to money shifts. Watch in car of racecars with manuals, they always go down each gear, often letting the clutch out with each shift. That is exactly what we teach at HPDE schools. Going 6th to 4th can easily turn into 6th to 2nd. 5th to 3rd into 5th to 1st. Don't cut corners. If you do this, get an instructor in the car.
Second, it's not just determining when and then downshifting, at least if you want to do it right. You still need to rev-match. A high RPM downshift (not common on the street of course, but very common on track) can (and usually will) "lock" the rearend of the car and cause the car to veer. Rev-matching helps with that (among other things). Most DCTs take care of the rev-match.
Third, that oh so fun and delicate act of heavy braking, combined with the downshift (which requires an entire ARM and a foot/leg), combined with rev-matching. Alot of fun in getting all three pedals in action at the same time, while shifting, and steering the car. DCT... left foot brake, computer rev-matches, you flick a paddle without removing your hands from the wheel, computer disengages clutch, shifts gears, then off you go. Technically superior and faster, but without a doubt not as fun or as challenging. And as long as you select the right gear, DCT does make it much easier to keep the engine "on the boil".
First, you should NEVER skip gears downshifting. That leads to money shifts. Watch in car of racecars with manuals, they always go down each gear, often letting the clutch out with each shift. That is exactly what we teach at HPDE schools. Going 6th to 4th can easily turn into 6th to 2nd. 5th to 3rd into 5th to 1st. Don't cut corners. If you do this, get an instructor in the car.
Second, it's not just determining when and then downshifting, at least if you want to do it right. You still need to rev-match. A high RPM downshift (not common on the street of course, but very common on track) can (and usually will) "lock" the rearend of the car and cause the car to veer. Rev-matching helps with that (among other things). Most DCTs take care of the rev-match.
Third, that oh so fun and delicate act of heavy braking, combined with the downshift (which requires an entire ARM and a foot/leg), combined with rev-matching. Alot of fun in getting all three pedals in action at the same time, while shifting, and steering the car. DCT... left foot brake, computer rev-matches, you flick a paddle without removing your hands from the wheel, computer disengages clutch, shifts gears, then off you go. Technically superior and faster, but without a doubt not as fun or as challenging. And as long as you select the right gear, DCT does make it much easier to keep the engine "on the boil".
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10-18-2018, 11:24 AM
#119
Zerv02 back at it with more attention seeking bs 
and y'all are falling for it every time
and y'all are falling for it every time
10-18-2018, 11:39 AM
#120
Le Mans Master
