Rumors of high price for C8 based on what the European makers charge
11-21-2018, 10:01 PM
#21
Le Mans Master
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2020 C8 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
I have said this before, but in my opinion, for what it’s worth, the only reason the exotics are so expensive is due to their low production numbers.
If you have to recover the development costs over a production run of 500 cars per year for five years you only have 2500 cars to make your money back on. But if you had the market and could produce 100,000 a year, then those development costs could be spread over a half million cars.
Basicly the exotics are not expensive because they are so good, they are expensive because there are so few of them.
I think that the Vette and the 911 have it figured out with production in the 30,000 to 40,000 range.
If you have to recover the development costs over a production run of 500 cars per year for five years you only have 2500 cars to make your money back on. But if you had the market and could produce 100,000 a year, then those development costs could be spread over a half million cars.
Basicly the exotics are not expensive because they are so good, they are expensive because there are so few of them.
I think that the Vette and the 911 have it figured out with production in the 30,000 to 40,000 range.
There are other factors too but many of these makers have limited resources to expand or intentionally hold back the true market.
Look at the new Ford GT. Ford is intentionally restricting production and keeping the price high. They originally only wanted to sell 300 (its more now because of demand at $450K) but they kept the price high and production low to make money on the investment.
I think GM wants to sell as many C8's as C7's over the long haul. The question is can they do that by increasing the price significantly (whatever that means). GM has all kinds of information on its Vette customers and knows exactly how many they can sell at what price.
GM will try to make as much money as they can, and rightly so. But the question is do they make it off volume or margins. IF they really intend to sell 25-30K units a year like the C7, the price has to be starting under 80K. But if they want to sell only maybe 5-10K a year the price could be $160K and they would probably make about the same money.
BUT, that also would put more pressure on utilizing their plant (a fixed cost they have that doesn't change no matter how many cars they make out of it) and the Caddy version (which of course has to be higher than the C8).
IMO, GM isn't worried about what others sell their cars for. They are going to pick the price that make the most sense to maximize profit coming out of their facility.
11-21-2018, 10:29 PM
#22
Race Director
Only if GM keeps overproducing.......Limit the numbers and the actual transaction price will increase bigly.
Those who want one and can afford it will pay .......The walmart shoppers will have to wait a few years and go with a used car.
The gross overproduction is what causes the 20% discounts needed to sell the cars.
Those who want one and can afford it will pay .......The walmart shoppers will have to wait a few years and go with a used car.
The gross overproduction is what causes the 20% discounts needed to sell the cars.
i dont see five grand more than todays msrp as wallmart shopping as a proper correlation but rather a staunch insult to corvette owners who dont want to get bent over like the germans charge their customers...
todays corvettes start at 56 grand and go to 140 grand...
For those that think that is chump change then you are fools ..
add five grand and you ll see the price of the c8..
ill add in that options on the c7 if they become standard....then we can add in those costs...as part of the base price of the c8.
id imagine for those that live hand to mouth...busy spending every dime they have and a few they dont ...they manage over a lifetime to accumulate nothing.
thats just not the corvette demographic...
the core customer base is who chevrolet will cater to...and that includes those who opt for the c8 derivatives such as grand sport, z06 and zr1 whatever their labels on the c8 may be.
road and track just awarded the c7 zr1 performance car winner...
not too shabby a way to end a generation of what you called wallmart shoppers...
(edit) porsche discounts, mclaren discounts and acura nsx discounts far exceed both in dollars and percentages what gm discounts the corvette every year with the possible exception of the final year.
acuras discount on the newly released nsx was astronomical and unit sales of the newly launched nsx was so miniscule its an utter failure...
who would choose, what corporate gm executive would chance such a foolish marketing move?
the answer is no one...
the c8 will orice out as I described above and the unit annual volume will remain steadier over the life of the c8 with less or equal incentives to what porsche endows on its venerable 911.
jmo
Last edited by JerriVette; 11-21-2018 at 10:39 PM.
11-21-2018, 10:38 PM
#23
Racer
Maybe I have. Maybe I still don’t get it. Maybe that’s why I posted. Maybe I hoped that if I went out on a limb and posted a query hoping to get a relatively simplified explanation, that I wouldn’t be condescended to. Or Maybe I expect too much from the human race. I give up. Have a nice day all, gonna go sit in my garage with my car running for a few hours until I fall asleep. Someone delete this account.
11-21-2018, 11:34 PM
#24
Melting Slicks
GM can sell 2000 trucks and make more profits than selling 400 Super Corvettes IE (Ford GT) Doesn't make sense to take the risk and alienate your core audience that took over 50 years to build. European cars have a higher labor cost * the list goes on. I looked at a BMW M3 the other day it had an MSRP of 101K I was WTF that is insane. Cars are getting ridiculously expensive, we spend all this money for a depreciating asset that spends 90% of its life in the garage Just stupid
Last edited by fasttoys; 11-21-2018 at 11:35 PM.
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ojm (11-21-2018)
11-22-2018, 12:04 AM
#25
Did you ever consider maybe it's just car guys who enjoy the design and performance of exotic cars and has zero to do with showing their personal wealth?
Frankly it embarrassing when total stranger ask how much your car cost or what do you do for a living.
For the most part I am glad to answer questions about my cars that come from car guys about the car itself. Not the cost or what I may or may not do for a living.
I am a car guy who loves many different cars and honestly could careless if someone like or dislikes what I choose to drive.
Most guys who own Ferrari or Lamborghini have been car guys their entire lives and appreciate the design and performance that these exotic car manufacturer.
very rich people wanting others to know they are very rich.Frankly it embarrassing when total stranger ask how much your car cost or what do you do for a living.
For the most part I am glad to answer questions about my cars that come from car guys about the car itself. Not the cost or what I may or may not do for a living.
I am a car guy who loves many different cars and honestly could careless if someone like or dislikes what I choose to drive.
Most guys who own Ferrari or Lamborghini have been car guys their entire lives and appreciate the design and performance that these exotic car manufacturer.
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vrybad (11-22-2018)
11-22-2018, 12:33 PM
#26
Drifting
Maybe I have. Maybe I still don’t get it. Maybe that’s why I posted. Maybe I hoped that if I went out on a limb and posted a query hoping to get a relatively simplified explanation, that I wouldn’t be condescended to. Or Maybe I expect too much from the human race. I give up. Have a nice day all, gonna go sit in my garage with my car running for a few hours until I fall asleep. Someone delete this account.
Why does everyone remove the Fort GT from the argument? What if GM is aiming for something at least close to that standard with the new mid-engine? Maybe as a new “top” corvette model (maybe Corvette ZORA)? And continuing the front engine with current models and costs. I’m not arguing, I truly want to know.
11-22-2018, 12:52 PM
#27
11-22-2018, 02:07 PM
#28
Melting Slicks
GM has aggravated the heck out of me in the past::: The 1990 ZR1 was so cool with the different and wider rear fascia. You paid double the price than the base car to be different. The next year the base car looked virtually identical.
Then came the first C6Zo6. I just had to have an American car that was literally “King of the Road”. A truly rare and incredible car. One or two years later the Grand Sport wide body appears with the small motor for a lot less money. Sad.
It really would not be surprising if the first mid engined car was very pricey and de contented models followed.
Then came the first C6Zo6. I just had to have an American car that was literally “King of the Road”. A truly rare and incredible car. One or two years later the Grand Sport wide body appears with the small motor for a lot less money. Sad.
It really would not be surprising if the first mid engined car was very pricey and de contented models followed.
Last edited by John T; 11-22-2018 at 02:07 PM.
11-22-2018, 02:37 PM
#29
Yes, I felt the same way about the GS coming after I'd purchased a C6 Z06. However, it would be a huge departure from past strategy to debut a much more expensive model first and the base model later.
They've never done that, and it would be very risky as it would instantly chill demand and widespread enthusiasm. I continue to believe that sales of a slightly face-lifted C7.5 along side the ME would sag badly because the market is close to the saturation point with nearly 200K C7s already out there.
They've never done that, and it would be very risky as it would instantly chill demand and widespread enthusiasm. I continue to believe that sales of a slightly face-lifted C7.5 along side the ME would sag badly because the market is close to the saturation point with nearly 200K C7s already out there.
Last edited by Foosh; 11-22-2018 at 02:41 PM.
11-22-2018, 03:48 PM
#30
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by JerriVette
they dont have too many wallmarts around here as the property values are too high.
i dont see five grand more than todays msrp as wallmart shopping as a proper correlation but rather a staunch insult to corvette owners who dont want to get bent over like the germans charge their customers...
todays corvettes start at 56 grand and go to 140 grand...
For those that think that is chump change then you are fools ..
add five grand and you ll see the price of the c8..
ill add in that options on the c7 if they become standard....then we can add in those costs...as part of the base price of the c8.
id imagine for those that live hand to mouth...busy spending every dime they have and a few they dont ...they manage over a lifetime to accumulate nothing.
thats just not the corvette demographic...
the core customer base is who chevrolet will cater to...and that includes those who opt for the c8 derivatives such as grand sport, z06 and zr1 whatever their labels on the c8 may be.
road and track just awarded the c7 zr1 performance car winner...
not too shabby a way to end a generation of what you called wallmart shoppers...
(edit) porsche discounts, mclaren discounts and acura nsx discounts far exceed both in dollars and percentages what gm discounts the corvette every year with the possible exception of the final year.
acuras discount on the newly released nsx was astronomical and unit sales of the newly launched nsx was so miniscule its an utter failure...
who would choose, what corporate gm executive would chance such a foolish marketing move?
the answer is no one...
the c8 will orice out as I described above and the unit annual volume will remain steadier over the life of the c8 with less or equal incentives to what porsche endows on its venerable 911.
jmo
i dont see five grand more than todays msrp as wallmart shopping as a proper correlation but rather a staunch insult to corvette owners who dont want to get bent over like the germans charge their customers...
todays corvettes start at 56 grand and go to 140 grand...
For those that think that is chump change then you are fools ..
add five grand and you ll see the price of the c8..
ill add in that options on the c7 if they become standard....then we can add in those costs...as part of the base price of the c8.
id imagine for those that live hand to mouth...busy spending every dime they have and a few they dont ...they manage over a lifetime to accumulate nothing.
thats just not the corvette demographic...
the core customer base is who chevrolet will cater to...and that includes those who opt for the c8 derivatives such as grand sport, z06 and zr1 whatever their labels on the c8 may be.
road and track just awarded the c7 zr1 performance car winner...
not too shabby a way to end a generation of what you called wallmart shoppers...
(edit) porsche discounts, mclaren discounts and acura nsx discounts far exceed both in dollars and percentages what gm discounts the corvette every year with the possible exception of the final year.
acuras discount on the newly released nsx was astronomical and unit sales of the newly launched nsx was so miniscule its an utter failure...
who would choose, what corporate gm executive would chance such a foolish marketing move?
the answer is no one...
the c8 will orice out as I described above and the unit annual volume will remain steadier over the life of the c8 with less or equal incentives to what porsche endows on its venerable 911.
jmo
11-22-2018, 04:12 PM
#31
Melting Slicks
GM has aggravated the heck out of me in the past::: The 1990 ZR1 was so cool with the different and wider rear fascia. You paid double the price than the base car to be different. The next year the base car looked virtually identical.
Then came the first C6Zo6. I just had to have an American car that was literally “King of the Road”. A truly rare and incredible car. One or two years later the Grand Sport wide body appears with the small motor for a lot less money. Sad.
It really would not be surprising if the first mid engined car was very pricey and de contented models followed.
Then came the first C6Zo6. I just had to have an American car that was literally “King of the Road”. A truly rare and incredible car. One or two years later the Grand Sport wide body appears with the small motor for a lot less money. Sad.
It really would not be surprising if the first mid engined car was very pricey and de contented models followed.
The people who get hemorrhoids over other people having a similar looking car for less than they got "suckered" in to paying are a sad bunch. Stay far far away from 911's if your fragile ego can't handle that, I mean a base 911 Carrera looks exactly the same as every other version of the 911...excet for the wings.
I love that GM doesn't cater to the "special snowflakes" and instead does what it can to make more money...which allows the Corvette to continue its existence and provides those of us without exotic car money to own a car that can outperform those very same exotics.
11-22-2018, 04:15 PM
#32
I agree, I got over it in about 5 minutes after I heard about it. That strategy sells a lot of cars, and without the volume they build and sell, there is no world-class, bargain sports car.
Last edited by Foosh; 11-22-2018 at 04:16 PM.
11-23-2018, 08:14 AM
#33
Melting Slicks
What?
The people who get hemorrhoids over other people having a similar looking car for less than they got "suckered" in to paying are a sad bunch. Stay far far away from 911's if your fragile ego can't handle that, I mean a base 911 Carrera looks exactly the same as every other version of the 911...excet for the wings.
I love that GM doesn't cater to the "special snowflakes" and instead does what it can to make more money...which allows the Corvette to continue its existence and provides those of us without exotic car money to own a car that can outperform those very same exotics.
The people who get hemorrhoids over other people having a similar looking car for less than they got "suckered" in to paying are a sad bunch. Stay far far away from 911's if your fragile ego can't handle that, I mean a base 911 Carrera looks exactly the same as every other version of the 911...excet for the wings.
I love that GM doesn't cater to the "special snowflakes" and instead does what it can to make more money...which allows the Corvette to continue its existence and provides those of us without exotic car money to own a car that can outperform those very same exotics.
My current sentiment is very similar to “why would any decent character go into politics”
And, whatever happened to “ If you don’t have something reasonable and constructive to say, don’t say it”
Supermassive, have you owned a 63 Split, 90 ZR1, C6ZO6 + two Carreras? I believe I have earned my right to speak what is a reasonable opinion without vicious criticism from a “supermassive dude”. But, because this is my third *** whipping on this site in thirty days time I am going dark. And no, I am not angry, just disappointed.
11-23-2018, 08:45 AM
#34
Melting Slicks
As each day goes by I find myself with less to add to this forum. I take time out of a busy day if I believe I have something constructive to add but it has been less and less as of late.
My current sentiment is very similar to “why would any decent character go into politics”
And, whatever happened to “ If you don’t have something reasonable and constructive to say, don’t say it”
Supermassive, have you owned a 63 Split, 90 ZR1, C6ZO6 + two Carreras? I believe I have earned my right to speak what is a reasonable opinion without vicious criticism from a “supermassive dude”. But, because this is my third *** whipping on this site in thirty days time I am going dark. And no, I am not angry, just disappointed.
It’s a public forum ,there’s only so much one could write to get a point across.
Supermassives writing style gets his point understood.
I don’t see it as an attack on you.
I share the same opinion as Supermassive,but appreciate your posts as well.
I could understand the frustrations with some members,it doesn’t seem like your getting the Mid engine Corvette as they invisioned ....
Not a halo car ,not exclusive,not priced in the six figures and the base model debuting first.
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John T (11-23-2018)
11-23-2018, 11:23 AM
#35
I'm with Toombs. I enjoy searching and reading the many opinions represented in these various posts. I don't see them as merely redundant and every once in a while I find a nugget or a morsel of truth I would not otherwise have discovered. I believe Corvette Forum can't have enough posts and threads to whet the appetite for the upcoming C8 be it mid engine C7 like or a combination. I too truly want to know. Beat away horseman, beat away. I can always change channels.