tolnep

no, the problem is, they were gonna use a flux capacitor, but found that there were issues and now are re-designing the car to use a oscillation overthruster

jimmyb

I hope we're 2 months in to the 6 month delay...no mules have been spotted in 2 months

Michael A

Jerri, you don't think they could clear out C7 inventory in nine months? It seems like that would be plenty of time.

ShagVette

So, does this confirm when trying to jump start the C8, it will need to be done from the passenger side front?

Zaro Tundov

I have two guesses, both involving limited hang outs in which the insider's info tells only part of the truth. The first is that they misjudged the cooling requirements of the later twin turbo engines. Upping the cooling capacity would require more powerful pumps, and probably a need to run the cooling system after engine shut down. GM would want to standardize electrical systems across C8 models as much as possible to reduce costs so the entire C8 program may be delayed to engineer and validate a more robust electrical system that can power a more robust cooling system.

My second guess is based on two shards of info. The first is that sources from within GM (on the base engine) have told us that the C8 would have a big surprise at its unveiling. This is from sources that also say it wil have an OHV engine derived from the LT1. So what's the great surprise? Second shard of info: the 7th gen Camaro is rumored to feature a flywheel-based kinetic energy storage system with the total system weighing less than 200 lbs.

Since GM introduces new performance engines in the Corvette and soon after in the Camaro, my bet is that the C8 will debut a bleeding edge kinetic energy storage system. Yet another piece of this puzzle that fits is unlimitedPower's claim that the LT1-derived engine will have 520hp yet only 485 lb-ft of torque. Perhaps the engine was tuned for less torque because the kinetic energy system will provide low end torque? If true, then this would indeed be a big surprise and it would be technology that GM could apply across their ICE vehicle lineup to increase both fuel economy and performance.

PurpleLion

Weighing an additional 200lbs.? I believe that would be a terrible performance trade-off for the C8.

RapidC84B

If they go that high tech I don't want it.... I want a KISS OHV motor.

jefnvk

Except if they implement it that way, they cannot legally use it for fuel mileage calculation. Seeing as the whole reason for it is to bump up fuel mileage numbers, it would be pointless to implement in this manner.

Zaro Tundov

Depends on how much torque it adds and the C8's total weight. Agreed that if it results in a 3800 lb vehicle then it's not a good trade off. But to be really strict about weight trade offs would result in a C8 that is more like a Miata than a Corvette.

ltomn

This thread is ridiculous! How does anyone call something delayed when it was never planned anyway? Can anyone quote a definitive announcement of when this vehicle was going to be released to the public? The answer is, no! Relax people! to quote a friend with insight: It will come out when they are 100% satisfied it will be correct from the beginning of production. Any hiccup will be scrutinized.

Bill Dearborn

I imagine they have been working on the issue for quite some time. Insufficient electrical capacity (what ever that means) probably came up in early testing. It takes time to re-engineer the system and maybe to do some repackaging and rerouting of harnesses. After that you have to redesign the manufacturing system to handle the changes. That includes contracting for new parts, dropping contracts for parts not needed and then figuring out how it will all be installed at the factory. They may have been looking at changing the electrical system design away from the traditional 12 volt system due to increased performance requirements and decreased weight demands.

Manufacturer's have been doing a lot of things to increase electrical system capacity as well as reducing weight of the electrical system. One of the things that has been talked about for a couple of decades is going to a 48 Volt electrical system which would let them cut down on the electrical system weight.

Or maybe they routed a harness in the only place it could go and then found out that it really couldn't go in that place because of some issue that didn't turn up until they started driving the prototypes and getting some miles on them.

Bill

RapidC84B

The plant has been closed to tours for a long time. It was released that plant tours would be opening back up in January. Then suddenly it was withdrawn to "indefinite". That is a delay... the car was supposed to be released so plant tours could resume. On top of that was the timing of the NDA on the key FOB patent submissions.

ShagVette

GM doesn't have a planned time line for this project?

If you call this thread ridiculous, then what, 99% of the threads in this C8 section are?

Maybe this is all false, and we get it at NAIAS in January.

JerryU

Since I have been speculating that an F1 KERS system is needed to help the overall efficiency of a gasoline engine, I like your guess!

Funny, been a flywheel energy storage fan since I stared investigating ~1982/3 (the government had an extensive document on the subject during the Carter Years, when we knew we had to do something! I'm also mechanically inclined. I was in CT looking at solar homes, not solar cells but big windows on the South side and energy stored I rocks in the basement! Moved South in 1985, it was easier!

For the first KERS effort in F1, ~2009, some cars were used flywheel storage and Porsche had/has their flywheel storage 911 racer. But now all F1's are using batteries. About half the 60 to 75 lb reported weight of the current 160 hp F1 systems is a battery. However in making it dependable I assume a similar system put in a Corvette would also weight closer to 200 lbs.

F1 has improved their efficiency over 50% with a smaller cid engine (1.6 Liter producing over 800 hp itself) with a 160 hp KERS that recovers all it's power when braking! They are beating old track records and refueling is not allowed so with less than ~half the fuel!

The C8 would be the first production car with the system BUT doesn't sound like GM to take that risk- at least not with the first C8 offering. Hope they did- worth the 6 month delay! Would make Tadge and Mary Barra look smart and "green leaning!"

wadenelson

That's actually the electrical engineer for the C8. He's so embarassed he hides from the camera.

MitchAlsup

In 2008 F1 cars were allowed unlimited amounts of fuel, most were in the 150-160 Kg range.
In 2009 they were allowed 100 Kg of fuel
In 2018 they were allowed 105 Kg
in 2019 they will be allowed 110 Kg.

So, its more like getting a bit more power 2018 F1 = 1000 HP from less fuel 105 Kg compared to V10 era 950 HP from 150 Kg.
Reported thermal efficiencies of the current F1 engines are around 50%.
And with a lot more low end grunt at the same time.

mammoth713

I love all the armchair engineering on this forum....

EE is so easy, anybody can do it, obviously

if it really had a delay due to electrical issue.. I would imagine it would be related to a hybrid setup IMO if it was that serious of a delay.

wadenelson

I was indeed kidding about that. Almost.

The heart of any hybrid, OR any vehicle that adopts a 24 or 48V electrical system is gonna be the inverter. That which changes AC to DC, DC to AC, and AC/DC to 3-phase CW --- Country Western.

You've got all these light bulbs and other legacy stuff that still requires 12V, unless you've re-engineered every single thing, down to the radio, headlights, horn,

You'll probably want the inverter to make 5V (or 3.3) for all the electronics --- ECM/BCM/TCM/.... modules, LED dash, etc. Why make 5V inside each individual module for all the chips & sensors?

You've got to power any electric motors you want to run -- starter, water pump, electric steering, electric air conditioning, power windows & seats... have 100% of them been re-designed for 24 or 48? Traction motors are likely to want 3 phase AC if they're like every other hybrid out there. Inverter converts DC from the high voltage battery into 3-phase...

You've got to interface with whatever batteries are installed. 12V so you can jump start it? 24 or 48? High Voltage for hybrid? Do you want the HV battery to be able to "charge" the 12V battery? How fast?

So you gonna have an alternator putting out raw AC to the Inverter, to avoid the rectification losses (heat) made by a 150-200AMP generator? Ya gonna water cool that big azz alternator. Oh boy, more plumbing.

If you don't correctly determine 100% of your loads under 100% of conditions --- Arizona heat, Minneapolis cold, 150mph, crawling 3 mph in traffic... you may have undersized one portion of the inverter. Do not pass go, go back and re-design the Inverter.

And that's how you end up with a 6 month delay because of "electrical issues."

NORTY

A disgruntled ex employee might...

Shrike6