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"The electrical system can't handle the required loads, so engineers need to redesign all the wiring."
Has Lucas, the Prince of Darkness arisen into the glare of LED headlights?
How long does it take to build a harness using larger diameter wires? Is one question.
How long does it take to order bigger motors, gears, and relays? is a different one.
Still find it almost impossible to believe that in this day and age of super computer simulations and Proto type testing and years of real world Field testing and data gathered from competitors cars that such a delay is possible. Somebody made some fundamental error‘s in assumptions and requirements early on and it was never discovered until a few months before they are about to go into production?
Last edited by firstvettesoon; 12-17-2018 at 07:50 PM.
What sources was the Autoblog report based on? Are they real or just the usual "obscure unknown insiders state" kind of stuff?
(I can't read the post itself, that site has too much scripting crap going on)
Still find it almost impossible to believe that in this day and age of super computer simulations and Proto type testing and years of real world Field testing and data gathered from competitors cars that such a delay is possible. Somebody made some fundamental error‘s in assumptions and requirements early on and it was never discovered until a few months before they are about to go into production?
Could be that they are struggling with the two tier voltage system. The Europeans have been at it since the late 90s. Volvo will be the first in production. Just saying.
I was initially a major skeptic, but after reading five technical articles (which are really excellent) on the need for 48V (now over 10 major OEMs have it on at least some of their cars, and 48 volt will literally be on most cars within the next five years, I am not longer a skeptic. I can not link where they are, but you folks are smart and know how to find them.
After you read just a couple, I think you will join me in being a believer, not a skeptic on the need for 48V system. And how about more torque, better fuel consumption and other benefits to such systems too.
Now as to whether GM could have caught this earlier...., no argument that hindsight for us all is usually better than our foresight.
Nevertheless, some of us we have waited five decades for a mid engine Corvette, and really do we need to gripe about a short delay from our mentally-wrong earlier preductions.
Reveal is coming this spring. And for those of us in a savings mode, if it is a month or even three later that the first ones are delivered, good, we can buy more mods when it arrives.
BTW, the linked article in the OP, is nowhere near as good as many other 48V tech articles are if wants to learn how come, the “whys” as to the advantages of such systems.
I was initially a major skeptic, but after reading five technical articles (which are really excellent) on the need for 48V (now over 10 major OEMs have it on at least some of their cars, and 48 volt will literally be on most cars within the next five years, I am not longer a skeptic. I can not link where they are, but you folks are smart and know how to find them.
After you read just a couple, I think you will join me in being a believer, not a skeptic on the need for 48V system. And how about more torque, better fuel consumption and other benefits to such systems too.
Now as to whether GM could have caught this earlier...., no argument that hindsight for us all is usually better than our foresight.
Nevertheless, some of us we have waited five decades for a mid engine Corvette, and really do we need to gripe about a short delay from our mentally-wrong earlier preductions.
Reveal is coming this spring. And for those of us in a savings mode, if it is a month or even three later that the first ones are delivered, good, we can buy more mods when it arrives.
Thanks E !
I was half joking but I still find it incredible if these things were not anticipated with all the simulation testing and experience from Euro cars etc. I am sure it is not a "simple" issue and as you say, it is not a huge delay IF it is a delay at all. Like some said, can't delay what ain't announced ! They are right on time! Well done GM !
I was half joking but I still find it incredible if these things were not anticipated with all the simulation testing and experience from Euro cars etc.
Are you forgetting about the ignition switch fiasco a few years back that occurred because GM engineers could not figure out the correct spring strength to hold the switch in "Run" position? Then they doubled down and replaced weak springs with stronger versions but did not change the part number so there was no way to know which ignitions had good springs. How many ways can a brand new car be screwed up? We are about to find out.
They can put C7 tail lights on it. They can not address the faulty PCV system(s) causing oil burning since 97, they can make the exhaust tips caged in a spot that make aftermarket variety of size/shape not possible (like the c7), they can paint the rear lower valance black like a kid would (as they have done in the c7) and finally, they could make sure the car is delayed another year.
Are you forgetting about the ignition switch fiasco a few years back that occurred because GM engineers could not figure out the correct spring strength to hold the switch in "Run" position? Then they doubled down and replaced weak springs with stronger versions but did not change the part number so there was no way to know which ignitions had good springs. How many ways can a brand new car be screwed up? We are about to find out.
mistakes will happen... I blame it all on computers, or more accurately, peoples trust in them...
Come on people... we got to the moon with slide-rules and speak & spells...
Last edited by firstvettesoon; 12-17-2018 at 11:58 PM.
Are you forgetting about the ignition switch fiasco a few years back that occurred because GM engineers could not figure out the correct spring strength to hold the switch in "Run" position? Then they doubled down and replaced weak springs with stronger versions but did not change the part number so there was no way to know which ignitions had good springs. How many ways can a brand new car be screwed up? We are about to find out.
That was a mistake by a single engineer (you don't assign multiple engineers to design a switch to meet defined requirements) who then tried to cover it up by releasing a change without changing the P/N. More than likely the cover up was attempted because the engineer didn't want to get a poor performance appraisal from their boss. Instead, they got the company in deep trouble and lost their job instead of just getting less money when bonuses and raises were passed out. The big wonder is how the person got the change submitted through engineering records without generating an engineering change order. To do that usually requires finding a willing clerk to blink at the correct time and how many clerks are willing to risk losing their jobs just so somebody else could save theirs.
That was a mistake by a single engineer (you don't assign multiple engineers to design a switch to meet defined requirements) who then tried to cover it up by releasing a change without changing the P/N. More than likely the cover up was attempted because the engineer didn't want to get a poor performance appraisal from their boss. Instead, they got the company in deep trouble and lost their job instead of just getting less money when bonuses and raises were passed out. The big wonder is how the person got the change submitted through engineering records without generating an engineering change order. To do that usually requires finding a willing clerk to blink at the correct time and how many clerks are willing to risk losing their jobs just so somebody else could save theirs.
Bill
The switch's design change(without changing part numbers) was approved up the chain of command. The lowly engineer did not do it on his own.
After 3 decades in the telecom industry, I can tell you that technology is evolving much faster than product development cycles, and management... by the time a design is approved, it may be obsolete. Modern cars have enormous draw on electrics... not only for convenience features like HVAC/NAV/Sound/Seats, etc, but fundamental systems such as steering, shifting, engine management etc, etc. Plus you need to incorporate future requirements in a product with a 4-5 year life cycle.
I read somewhere that a Bentley COntinental has a wiring harness that contains thousands of feet of wire hundreds of components and weighs hundreds of pounds.... I don't have the numbers right (you can look it up), but it was mind boggling!
It does not surprise me, as this as electrical systems are the "moonshot" techology of mid century auto tech.
After 3 decades in the telecom industry, I can tell you that technology is evolving much faster than product development cycles, and management... by the time a design is approved, it may be obsolete. Modern cars have enormous draw on electrics... not only for convenience features like HVAC/NAV/Sound/Seats, etc, but fundamental systems such as steering, shifting, engine management etc, etc. Plus you need to incorporate future requirements in a product with a 4-5 year life cycle.
I read somewhere that a Bentley COntinental has a wiring harness that contains thousands of feet of wire hundreds of components and weighs hundreds of pounds.... I don't have the numbers right (you can look it up), but it was mind boggling!
It does not surprise me, as this as electrical systems are the "moonshot" techology of mid century auto tech.
Not only this, don't forget they are also dependent upon suppliers and things who may also mess up or make changes. It's not impossible for Delphi to come back and say "hey, when we tested all the cool new features you put into the Corvette, we realized it ran to slowly, so we upped the components and need more power". And then GM redoes calculations, realizes that it is getting close to max, but should still work. And then during testing they realize, everything works great even with the new loads, except if you use both power windows at the same time, while sitting at a stop light when auto-stop has kicked in -- and they forgot to re-plan for that.
12-17-2018, 02:22 PM
