C8 may kill Corvette
01-18-2019, 11:47 AM
#61
Race Director
Historical revisionism. That car arguably saved Corvette from the tired and (by early ‘80s standards) totally outclassed C3. Styling and engineering were universally praised and they sold tons of them. I am sure I am not the only sports car lover who still prefers their clean and elegant style to the cartoonish C3...
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01-18-2019, 11:59 AM
#62
Race Director
Pithy and correct. “As we know it” is key. Expensive Zora means something else also coming out of BG. Fun to speculate but nobody really knows unless they are on the inside — and they are not jeopardiizing their livelihoods to make us happy!
01-18-2019, 12:03 PM
#63
Assuming the car looks good and performs well, which I assume will be the case, the only thing that will kill the Corvette in the near term would be pricing it starting it above $100K, and trying to use a warmed-over "C7.5" to cover the low-end.
Last edited by Foosh; 01-18-2019 at 12:07 PM.
01-18-2019, 12:03 PM
#64
Le Mans Master
This is an interesting take I guess, considering the fact that a GT car typically meets certain other criteria...by your reasoning the 911 is actually more of a GT than the Corvette, but everyone considers the 911 to be a "real" sports car.
The Corvette is a REAL sports car, just like the 911, or the Viper...which is exactly the same as the Corvette when it comes to layout and capability yet no one makes the GT caveat when talking about a Viper. Its a silly thing to even suggest as Corvettes and 911's are among the fastest road going track capable cars and therefore classifies it as a sports car. Hell I consider the ZL1 1LE as a proper sports car as well, but for some reason the "pony car" caveat precludes this possibility in peoples eyes, even though it will humiliate plenty of "real" sports cars in their natural environment.
The question is whether or not the Corvette is a supercar, generally I think the consensus discounts the price and the lack of $50k worth of leather in the interior as determining factors against this classification...which is stupid, but I digress.
The mid engine platform has literally one thing going against it vs the outgoing front engine Vettes and that is storage capacity. Although if there is a nice storage area under that rear hatch we may end up with even more storage than previous Corvettes. So who knows?
Some people will bitch and moan about some benign design thing that they just can't live with and pass up the C8 over it. Some will continue their boycott of tail lights that aren't round and wax poetic about flip up head lights. Some will not buy because there is no manual. In the end we May lose a few buyers changing to a mid engine platform, but we will likely gain quite a few more that want in on a sports car layout that has been exclusively the domain of supercars for decades (with the exception of a few underwhelming examples like the MR2 Spyder).
Personally I've only been a fan of Corvettes since the reveal of the C7, it was the first time I saw a Corvette and knew I had to have one, I am also young-ish at a ripe old age of 38, so my taste is a bit different than many legacy Corvette enthusiasts. The best thing GM can do is throw out as much "tradition" as they can, while still maintaining the things that make a Corvette, a Corvette. Considering the fact that I can buy a $35k Hyundai with a nicer interior than many cars leads me to believe the capability of GM to make a nice interior affordable is there. We already know GM can make a killer chassis and power train, so all we need now is a banging job on the exterior design and presto...another great Corvette.
The Corvette is a REAL sports car, just like the 911, or the Viper...which is exactly the same as the Corvette when it comes to layout and capability yet no one makes the GT caveat when talking about a Viper. Its a silly thing to even suggest as Corvettes and 911's are among the fastest road going track capable cars and therefore classifies it as a sports car. Hell I consider the ZL1 1LE as a proper sports car as well, but for some reason the "pony car" caveat precludes this possibility in peoples eyes, even though it will humiliate plenty of "real" sports cars in their natural environment.
The question is whether or not the Corvette is a supercar, generally I think the consensus discounts the price and the lack of $50k worth of leather in the interior as determining factors against this classification...which is stupid, but I digress.
The mid engine platform has literally one thing going against it vs the outgoing front engine Vettes and that is storage capacity. Although if there is a nice storage area under that rear hatch we may end up with even more storage than previous Corvettes. So who knows?
Some people will bitch and moan about some benign design thing that they just can't live with and pass up the C8 over it. Some will continue their boycott of tail lights that aren't round and wax poetic about flip up head lights. Some will not buy because there is no manual. In the end we May lose a few buyers changing to a mid engine platform, but we will likely gain quite a few more that want in on a sports car layout that has been exclusively the domain of supercars for decades (with the exception of a few underwhelming examples like the MR2 Spyder).
Personally I've only been a fan of Corvettes since the reveal of the C7, it was the first time I saw a Corvette and knew I had to have one, I am also young-ish at a ripe old age of 38, so my taste is a bit different than many legacy Corvette enthusiasts. The best thing GM can do is throw out as much "tradition" as they can, while still maintaining the things that make a Corvette, a Corvette. Considering the fact that I can buy a $35k Hyundai with a nicer interior than many cars leads me to believe the capability of GM to make a nice interior affordable is there. We already know GM can make a killer chassis and power train, so all we need now is a banging job on the exterior design and presto...another great Corvette.
01-18-2019, 12:24 PM
#65
Team Owner
The two cars aren't in the same market. To think that they are is to be ignorant of the buyers.
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Rapid Fred (01-18-2019)
01-18-2019, 12:31 PM
#66
Maybe not now, but it could be with a redesigned new-gen Camaro that is lighter, lower, smaller, and closer to the current FE C7 configuration.
01-18-2019, 12:31 PM
#67
Melting Slicks
I think you are missing something important. The advantages of a mid engine are lost on the majority of Corvette owners. The typical owner is not the performance freak. It's the older guy who likes to be seen in it and likes the utility of the cargo space, and the day-to-day functionality.
Historical revisionism. That car arguably saved Corvette from the tired and (by early ‘80s standards) totally outclassed C3. Styling and engineering were universally praised and they sold tons of them. I am sure I am not the only sports car lover who still prefers their clean and elegant style to the cartoonish C3...
01-18-2019, 12:39 PM
#68
The thing you are missing? The overwhelming majority of buyers couldn't care less where their engine is, so long as the car says CORVETTE. What logic would dictate they would they not understand the performance benefits, but balk at it being ME? I don't doubt there will be a few purists who will boycott it, but they'll be relatively small fish.
I dunno, C3s are still one of only two generations (C7 being the other) that I think look better than my C4. Any non-smog-neutered C3 with the power of my C4 was many times the cost, though, as are the C7s (obviously)
I dunno, C3s are still one of only two generations (C7 being the other) that I think look better than my C4. Any non-smog-neutered C3 with the power of my C4 was many times the cost, though, as are the C7s (obviously)
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01-18-2019, 12:40 PM
#69
If it is highway reliable, and track reliable, things will be OK.
01-18-2019, 12:48 PM
#71
01-18-2019, 12:50 PM
#72
Team Owner
I sure would like to know what the rationale was at Acura for the sales flop mid engine NSX. They apparently thought it would sell as they built a dedicated factory to build approximately 2,000 NSX's annually(but are barely able to sell 150 annually).
Then BMW and Toyota spends tons of money on bringing a new front engine Z4 and Supra to market. Why are two successful auto companies(that have never declared bankruptcy) going against the mid-engine design for a new sports car in 2019? Are they intentionally bringing a new front engine sports car to market in 2019/2020 because they are looking for a sales failure? I doubt it.
Maybe there could be some reasoning behind having both a front engine Corvette and a mid-engine Corvette on the dealer's sales floor simultaneously.
Then BMW and Toyota spends tons of money on bringing a new front engine Z4 and Supra to market. Why are two successful auto companies(that have never declared bankruptcy) going against the mid-engine design for a new sports car in 2019? Are they intentionally bringing a new front engine sports car to market in 2019/2020 because they are looking for a sales failure? I doubt it.
Maybe there could be some reasoning behind having both a front engine Corvette and a mid-engine Corvette on the dealer's sales floor simultaneously.
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PCMIII (01-18-2019)
01-18-2019, 12:57 PM
#73
Team Owner
One is a retired college professor, that also owns two 1963's(one being a spilt window and he recently tuned down a $150,000 offer for the split window).
The other is a retired GM marketing exec that was in charge of the Corvette Challenge series in 1989-1990. He sold his original C4 when he purchased his C7, but then had to get another C4(he did keep his C7) as he loves them.
01-18-2019, 02:34 PM
#76
Team Owner
01-18-2019, 02:35 PM
#77
Drifting
I think you are missing something important. The advantages of a mid engine are lost on the majority of Corvette owners. The typical owner is not the performance freak. It's the older guy who likes to be seen in it and likes the utility of the cargo space, and the day-to-day functionality.
Our club has a lot of retired members so 60+ is pretty common.
Last edited by plasboy; 01-18-2019 at 02:39 PM.
01-18-2019, 02:39 PM
#78
Tech Contributor
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"Ask Tadge" Producer
He's not missing anything, and I'm more inclined to side with his take on the subject. Your club outings aren't the norm for the Corvette owning populace. And whether you'd like to believe it or not, even aggressive "road trips" aren't going to matter when it comes to FE/RE/ME layouts.
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JustinStrife (01-18-2019)
01-18-2019, 03:10 PM
#79
Drifting
I agree it’s not going to make any great difference in performance on the highway but may have improved driving dynamics. Also the design allows for AWD which the FE did not allow.
01-18-2019, 04:00 PM
#80
Melting Slicks
Last edited by jefnvk; 01-18-2019 at 04:01 PM.