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Please, Chevrolet....NO Start/Stop Technology on C8

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Please, Chevrolet....NO Start/Stop Technology on C8

 
Old 02-04-2019, 09:12 AM
  #141  
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Yes, I had a CAGs eliminator on my C6 Z06, but have found absolutely no need for it on the C7. I never shift before 20 mph or about 2500 rpm even when cold. For those who want to "granny shift," do it before 15 mph, and you won't see it either.

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Old 02-08-2019, 09:48 AM
  #142  
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My Jaguar F Type R had a defeat button for the start/stop. The sequence for me was push start button, push start/stop defeat button, push exhaust valve open button. If the C8 does incorporate start/stop, please give us a defeat button or a mode that bypasses it.
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Old 02-08-2019, 10:09 AM
  #143  
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Originally Posted by Tally Ho View Post
My Jaguar F Type R had a defeat button for the start/stop. The sequence for me was push start button, push start/stop defeat button, push exhaust valve open button. If the C8 does incorporate start/stop, please give us a defeat button or a mode that bypasses it.
Guess you have not been following AOC’s bill going through Congress! She will have NO fossil fuel cars (and more) by 2030!

Lets at least have the last generation internal combustion engines with improved energy efficiency, i. e. smaller cid, double overhead cam, twin turbo prove 500 + hp and improve the current 15% energy in gasoline that gets to the rear wheels!

Of that ~15%, about a third also goes into heat braking. We can recover some and get ~150 more hp with a 100lb F1 KERS type system.

I’ll accept a quality Stop/Start system like we have in our 2018 BMW X5 SUV way before I have to plug my EV in every night!

Side Bar:
I also like stake and AOC’s bill will lead to no cows as they fart a great deal of methane! Hmm, guess that also means no refried beans!
Here are some facts re cows:
"Their wind (farts) and manure emit more than one third of emissions of another, methane, which warms the world 20 times faster than carbon dioxide. Livestock also produces more than 100 other polluting gases, including more than two-thirds of the world's emissions of ammonia, one of the main causes of acid rain. So get ready to eat Tofu!

Continuing:
I recall the fellow from NASA who was demoted for saying “Why do we think the current temperature is good for all people in all places! Bet the folks in Minnesota would be happy to be 10 degrees warmer. Agree IF this warming is not a natural cycle, folks in Florida etc will have to move! There are other scientists who note that increased warming increases clouds that block the sun's radiation. This analysis from 2017 from Lawrence Livermore National Labs states: . “These results suggest that low cloud anomalies induced by the spatial sea surface temperature pattern could have contributed to reduced warming between 1998 and 2013.

I certainly don’t know what will happen with “Global Warming” but from my experience with the research on the impact on welders of fumes generated - you have to watch who is funding the work!

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Old 02-08-2019, 11:48 AM
  #144  
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Originally Posted by Atari_Prime View Post
Start/Stop technology is here to stay, at least until the electric revolution renders it unnecessary. The good news though is that many manufacturers are now allowing you to disable it permanently if you don't want to use it. Meaning, you can save your settings so that the system is turned off when you start the car next time. BMW has been doing this for a while. Porsche and Volvo are now doing it as well. Can't vouch for others. Some are even going back and updating software on their prior models to allow you to disable the system at your discretion.
My 2014 (and since) Jaguar F-TYPE had a switch to turn it off or on if you don't want to use it. Me? I always left it on and it only took maybe 4-7 days to get used to it; then no big deal afterwards.
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Old 02-08-2019, 06:37 PM
  #145  
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Originally Posted by purple heart View Post
My 2014 (and since) Jaguar F-TYPE had a switch to turn it off or on if you don't want to use it. Me? I always left it on and it only took maybe 4-7 days to get used to it; then no big deal afterwards.
how long have you had the car and how many $300 AGM batteries have you replaced?

do you feel the $300 you spent on one or more AGM batteries have saved you money?

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Old 02-08-2019, 11:45 PM
  #146  
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Originally Posted by NY09C6 View Post
how long have you had the car and how many $300 AGM batteries have you replaced?

do you feel the $300 you spent on one or more AGM batteries have saved you money?
I'd love to see any study that proves SS tech reduces battery life in any appreciable numbers.
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Old 02-08-2019, 11:53 PM
  #147  
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Originally Posted by NY09C6 View Post
how long have you had the car and how many $300 AGM batteries have you replaced?

do you feel the $300 you spent on one or more AGM batteries have saved you money?
Guess you have not followed Mary Barra switching most GM engineering to electric vehicles or AOC getting a bill going through Congress to have no fossil fuels used by 2030!

Stop/Start is NOT there for you to save money! It's to reduce the energy waste when cars are at idle. Helps manufacturers meet required mpg goals.

Also we had our BMW X5 SUV operate just fine with it's AMG battery for 4 years. Traded it for a new X5 that just turned 1 year old. We never shut Stop/Start off- no need. It's seamless, don't know the engine is off when the radio is on, can't get to the gas from brake before engine starts, don't hear the starter motor!

Many companies are now shutting the engine off right after a cylinder fires and that cylinder pressure turns the motor to assist the starter in restart! Yep it can be done well. The BMW goes one step further, with more stress on the battery. It only charges that AMG battery when coasting or braking. Alternator is NOT functioning other than those times. Have a dash gauge to show when it operates and when you're recovering braking energy. Worlds changing!

Most cars have only ~15% of the energy in gasoline getting to the rear wheels. Time at idle is part of that waste. About 30% goes out the exhaust and another ~30% heats up the water in the rad! Of that ~15% that does get to the rear wheels about a third turns into heat when braking! Some of that wasted energy can be captured.

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Old 02-09-2019, 10:12 PM
  #148  
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Originally Posted by tractman View Post
I've had two vehicles with this Start / Stop Technology and I hate it. C8 is a sports car....not a commuter car.
You're point of view and I respect that. However, I've had it on 2 cars also I find it only takes a couple of days to learn to work with the system. I feel that as long as Corvette has an on/off switch for the system, that works for me. One of the cars I've had the Start / Stop option was a 2014 Jaguar F-TYPE and what I've learned is that there are times when I didn't mind it on and there times I wanted it OFF! It's like the muffler system, sometimes I like it on the quiet side and sometimes I like it on the loud side, depending the circumstances.

Another point I'd like to say and not to steal your thread is I wish Corvette would have the automatic folding mirrors when you lock the car. Again, I had it on the Jaguar and initially it took a little getting used to but it's an option I wish was on Corvette's menu.

Sal
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Old 02-09-2019, 10:16 PM
  #149  
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Originally Posted by NY09C6 View Post
how long have you had the car and how many $300 AGM batteries have you replaced?

do you feel the $300 you spent on one or more AGM batteries have saved you money?
I had the car 2 years and never replaced ANY batteries!
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Old 02-10-2019, 12:26 PM
  #150  
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I also had a '14 Jaguar F-Type w/ start/stop that I left on all the time. A driver can modulate whether it engages or not with brake pedal pressure, which is the same with my current Jeep, and it was also the same on my wife's '15 MB C300. It took very firm pedal pressure on all 3 to cause engine shutdown when stopped. All restarted w/ zero hesitation.

My '14 Jag had a large AGM for regular use, and a smaller battery for start/stop. In later MY cars the small battery was dropped because it was found to be unnecessary.

Some folks are rigid, make up their minds they hate something, and will never change that perception. Others are open-minded, receptive to trying new things, and ultimately embrace them even if they were initially skeptical. It has been forever thus.

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Old 02-10-2019, 03:15 PM
  #151  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
Some folks are rigid, make up their minds they hate something, and will never change that perception. Others are open-minded, receptive to trying new things, and ultimately embrace them even if they were initially skeptical. It has been forever thus.
One other group exists, the open minded ones who were receptive to the change, tried it and it didn't work for them. I am in this third group as to start/stop.
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Old 02-10-2019, 03:22 PM
  #152  
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I suppose that's true, but that group is a real head-scratcher for me in the case of start/stop. I suppose there have been some poor implementations of the system. I just haven't experienced one.

Perhaps others experienced it on a relatively short test drive, and didn't gain enough experience with it to realize how non-instrusive it is.

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Old 02-11-2019, 09:15 AM
  #153  
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If the C8 has "start/stop" set as default, I won't buy the car.
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Old 02-11-2019, 09:23 AM
  #154  
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Originally Posted by NORTY View Post
If the C8 has "start/stop" set as default, I won't buy the car.
There is a pretty darn good chance that stop/start will be set as default.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:41 PM
  #155  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
I suppose that's true, but that group is a real head-scratcher for me in the case of start/stop. I suppose there have been some poor implementations of the system. I just haven't experienced one.

Perhaps others experienced it on a relatively short test drive, and didn't gain enough experience with it to realize how non-instrusive it is.
It's not so much that I found it intrusive as it was annoying. I have 13 traffic lights and 5 stop signs one way on my commute to work. That's a lot of on/off every day as the car was a driver (2016 F Type R). I'll give Jaguar credit that it was pretty close to being undetectable. I'm still not convinced that there's not extra wear on the starter. I will say I would prefer start/stop over cylinder deactivation. I still don't like the fact that Chevy put cylinder deactivation in the auto trans Z06 AND charged a gas guzzler tax. Signs of the times I guess. At least we can still get 600+ hp cars to drive.
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Old 02-11-2019, 02:54 PM
  #156  
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I hear these all the time in traffic and I say to myself, ďthat poor starterĒ. And these are on cars with most likely low compression. I hate having to make multiple starts just because itís not the easiest job a component has in the entire vehicle, I couldnít imagine just being in 20 minutes of bumper to bumper traffic and what kind of wear that is on a car equipped with this feature.

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Old 02-11-2019, 07:41 PM
  #157  
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It is cold engine starts that cause engine wear because of the initial lack of lubrication and cold oil. Start/stop systems don't start operating until oil is up to temp and covering all moving parts. During the brief engine stops there is plenty of warm oil lubricating all surfaces, and it causes no more wear than an idling engine. As far as starter wear is concerned, you don't even hear the starter turn during a start/stop restart. It is entirely different from a cold start, and starts are instant. Just wiggle your foot a little on the brake pedal and boom, engine is started.

With regard to the "annoyance" factor, most folks get used to it and forget about it. As I said way up somewhere in this thread, when I first experienced vehicles with them about 5 years ago, I was a little annoyed and turned them off. Slowly but surely, I started leaving it on to experiment, and now I leave it on all the time because I have so much completely positive experience with them in 3 different vehicles and now appreciate the technology.

Also BTW, Jaguar F-Types have it on the high-compression, supercharged engines in all models.

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Old 02-11-2019, 08:02 PM
  #158  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
It is cold engine starts that cause engine wear because of the initial lack of lubrication and cold oil. Start/stop systems don't start operating until oil is up to temp and covering all moving parts. During the brief engine stops there is plenty of warm oil lubricating all surfaces, and it causes no more wear than an idling engine. As far as starter wear is concerned, you don't even hear the starter turn during a start/stop restart. It is entirely different from a cold start, and starts are instant. Just wiggle your foot a little on the brake pedal and boom, engine is started.

With regard to the "annoyance" factor, most folks get used to it and forget about it. As I said way up somewhere in this thread, when I first experienced vehicles with them about 5 years ago, I was a little annoyed and turned them off. Slowly but surely, I started leaving it on to experiment, and now I leave it on all the time because I have so much completely positive experience with them in 3 different vehicles and now appreciate the technology.

Also BTW, Jaguar F-Types have it on the high-compression, supercharged engines in all models.
Maybe your start/stop system doesn't make any noise but on my Audi TDI a cold start and a start/stop sound almost identical other than the fact the cold start takes slightly longer. Another poster mentioned about it being annoying and that is what we feel about our system. Being a diesel it's working against significantly more compression so there is no "I can't tell if it's running or not". You know when it's running and when it isn't and the start/stop is annoying to us. We have incorporated pushing the disable start/stop button into our startup routine, problem solved. I really wish it would stay disabled on startup like my Porsche does.
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Old 02-11-2019, 08:43 PM
  #159  
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Originally Posted by Foosh View Post
I suppose that's true, but that group is a real head-scratcher for me in the case of start/stop. I suppose there have been some poor implementations of the system. I just haven't experienced one.

Perhaps others experienced it on a relatively short test drive, and didn't gain enough experience with it to realize how non-instrusive it is.
I've experienced lots of shake, rattle and roll with smaller displacement engines that are the scourge of most rental car fleets. It's ironic of course, these involuntary start-stop systems seemed to have mostly proliferated in smaller displacement motors and lower-cost cars that are - mostly - viewed as appliances by their owners. The fact that most (all?) of the OEMís havenít really tried to defend or justify start-stop (other than on the basis of, well, "the other guys are doing it" and it helps fuel consumption a bit) tells me most of what I need to know about the rationale, efficacy and cost of these systems. The design and maintenance complexity make it more likely that you local automobile dealer is pleased about your decision to roll-over and buy cars with the start-stop feature as you become even more beholden to your dealer for service. Other problems, including longer-term maintenance issues due to diminished oil pressure on re-start and related premature wear are not being discussed. Higher maintenance costs just mean cars will become increasingly disposable commodities as these unobtrusive (love that word!) technologies take their toll.

How long before California distinguishes / tests emissions immediately after a start-stop cycle given the frequency of these cycles? Iím betting thereís some cost in emissions that OEMís would acknowledge, but are not now required to defend in lieu of better gas mileage. Get ready to bend over some more...

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Old 02-11-2019, 09:49 PM
  #160  
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Early systems were crap. Cheap systems are crap. Not a big surprise.

I was in the modestly priced flagship CUV from a major OEM all day today. It had start stop. The only inclination I had to shut off the system was that it was directly affecting the conditions for some of my testing. Outside of that, it was of no notice. Half the time I didn't even realize it working. It took me an hour in the car to even realize it was functional, since most of our prototypes are so broken it rarely activates without fighting it to.
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