Foosh

Actually the C6 sold in equal or greater numbers from 2005-08, then dropped off a cliff because of the great recession.

Corvette Sales 1953-2017

Jeff V.

Maybe it'll only cost ~5k more to build. But then someone at GM has the brilliant idea that, since it benchmarked well against Porsche in internal testing, they can sell it for $75k. They still undercut Porsche, and turn a healthy profit margin in the process. It's not like anyone would be blinded by the thought of a big year end bonus for coming up with this brilliant plan. Of course, now the dealers want their 10 and 20k markups, so now it's a 95k base price for the first year.

But no. That's impossible. They'd never do that. Nope. Not ever.

Cadillac to add badges denoting metric torque

C7pimp

If they learned anything from Dodge on pricing, it is to not do precisely that. Dodge jacked the price of the Viper up and it played a large part in its demise. They did an MSRP adjustment from 2014 to 2015 by reducing the MSRP by $15,000. Guess what? 2014 buyers were pissed as F&*$. Dodge offered them a $15,000 voucher towards the purchase of a 2015, essentially making the car see a $30,000 shift in the market to current owners of Gen 5 vipers. That put a really nasty taste in people's mouths and the Viper died. 2014 owners saw an immediate $15,000 loss of value. Wanna **** people off? Do that.

Atari_Prime

No. The price of the Viper had nothing to do with its 'demise'. The Viper V10 was having difficulty reaching emissions standards and when coupled with fuel mileage expectations, they determined that it would be very expensive to rework the engine to make it compliant. Also, new side-impact crash standards would have required a full redesign of the framework of the vehicle. Rather than take these steps, they determined that the Hellcat and Redeye are serving as adequate ambassadors of the brand at the moment, so the Viper was placed on hold. It's like Batman, it only comes around when needed.

Les

This just came, in an email from Corvette Mike in CA- I have no idea who his source(s) might be. Take it for what it's worth, specifically the last 2 lines.

Jeff V.

His "source" is the internet. This story has been circulating for the last several days.

Telepierre

Also read C7 ZR1 passed 2030th delivery, still fulfilling back log orders (amount unknown) with TBWs in April & still taking orders..
I suppose this is relevant come March 30...MY 19/20?

Telepierre

I am with you 50/50 on this. Within the sales volume context I was after, you have the Cayman/boxer which combined may sell in the price point/numbers interesting to Chevrolet but on the other hand all the other 7 manufactures in the top 10 could have built MEs as well and they have not...
Interesting you mentioned "attractiveness" as one market luring characteristic. Ed Welburn and Lutz both think ME means compromised design and less cabin/usable space.

Maybe Chevrolet is betting we are at a market inflection point for sports cars and those things don't matter anymore...I suppose they could take that risk with a 30K/year car..and go ALL in.

Then again SUVs are popular because of "space"..

Though dicathomy..

RapidC84B

Then why did they discount them $20K to move them? The car was over-priced for the market. Yes the things you listed are what finally did it in, but if the car was a money maker (like the Corvette is for GM) FCA would have put in the work to continue the car.

Telepierre

Viper...
The best anectode I ever read about the car came from a multi generation owner that had to give up...

Something along these lines..

Powerfull car, flashy car, gutsy car, and manly car but for all the efforts could not graduate to good car..

Still an icon IMHO.

Supermassive

Honestly the Gen V Viper was pretty damn amazing and I would even consider the GTC program one of the best a la carte car ordering programs ever. I personally wanted an ACR with fully optioned GTS interior package. The GTS with the TA2 package just might have been the best all around Viper package and would have made a fine daily driver. People like to complain about quirkiness in sports cars, as if they somehow detract from the driving experience, to be fair the Viper remained a little hairy to drive in certain situations, but was just as comfortable as my C7 (perhaps moreso due to the much more upscale interior trimming). I never did buy one...and I regret it.

The Gen V was a good sports car, plain and simple, and was an undeniable "super car" built by hand with a fit and finish that is sorely lacking in the much more mass produced Corvette. The price was a sticking point for many and the lack of an auto option severely limited sales further, but to discount the last generation of the Viper as anything less than good is silly. Then again, I find Porsches boring and dull...unless it says GT3 on the tail.

jefnvk

Well, the Wrangler crowd bitched and screamed when Jeep offered a four door model, but its sales have way outpaced the two door. I know it isn't an all out platform change, but it was a radical departure from what the history of the Wrangler was, and now some of the people I know that screamed the loudest about it sullying the tradition of the Wrangler own one.

But I also think that the Wrangler is good comparison all in all. The purists claim to hate what it has become, a bloated daily driver filled with comfort features and mall-rated capabilities (look at one next to the Mahindra Roxor, which isn't too far off the dimensions of the original Jeeps), but at the end of the day it is still THE capable off road machine it has always been, with far more focus put on its trail rating and rock climbing capabilities than things that would entice me to buy one, like it not sounding like a jet engine driving down the freeway. It is the spirit of the car that is important, not the physical layout, just like the Wrangler continuing to sell so long as it is THE off the shelf off road vehicle to have, the Corvette will continue to sell so long as it is THE affordable to most sports car which can match much pricier options.

Oh, and the two door and four door models are on the same platform for some reason

Supermassive

It seems almost ridiculous when I hear people exclaim that it will be difficult for GM to pull off a change like going from FE to ME in the Corvette. GM has toyed with the idea since the '60s, it never sacked up and did it to the detriment of the world of sports cars, but now it will. The slow progression toward this moment was predestined due to the work of Mr. Arkus-Duntov. The only people who fear this transition are the hardcore traditionalists, as anyone who desires higher performance from the Corvette brand knows that the ME layout is superior for actual sports cars. There will no longer be a necessary "but" when discussing whether or not the Corvette is a true sports car or a GT. I have always claimed that the Corvette is a sports car first, but detractor cling to things like luggage space or compromises tied to the FE layout.

The mid engine transition is necessary to keep the Corvette relevant today. We enthusiasts are not the future of Corvette, we are merely ambassadors for future fans, and the mystique of the mid engine sports car is well and truly a palpable thing. With the proliferation of social media and the number of videos on the internet of all the cool mid engine exotics flooding the internet daily, GM releasing an "affordable" high performance mid engine "exotic fighter", would likely stimulate the creation of a newer and younger fan base.

Jeff V.

There's a problem (if you can call it that) with the Corvette being an affordable, attainable car,. A lot of buyers can stretch a little and get one, but then it's their only car. Or at least the only one they want to drive. A lot of people daily these cars. Look how many people on this board sing the praises of the bare bones 1LT trims. The ME car has to be as practical and usable as the current car is. Otherwise they're sacrificing a big portion of the customer base, all for the sake of satisfying a bunch of bench racers who just want to brag that their car is a few tenths faster around a race track they've never even visited let alone driven.

It's quite the tightrope to walk.

Les

Ahhhh, got it. So aside from the various personal opinions expressed in this thread, that's the same source as pretty much all the other info posted here. Check.

Supermassive

I think that anyone who has a Corvette as their only car knows that they are literally trading actual utility for the experience of driving the car. Modern mid engine cars are completely daily drivable, from the McLaren 570S, 600LT, and 720S, Lamborghini's Huracan, and Ferrari's 488, they are all livable cars. The problem lies in the fact that these cars are so cost prohibitive to operate as daily drivers that you rarely see them out for anything other than a quick weekend romp or a trip to the local Cars and Coffee. The Cayman is actually a great example of a livable mid engine car and sells decently even though they are over priced for what they offer.

If GM prices the C8 well, there should be no reason why the people who buy one as their sole vehicle won't graciously accept it. Also if it has both a frunk and trunk it may be more practical than a C7.

Atari_Prime

Ignoring what a Corvette is or is not. Viper doesn't make money. It never made money. It was never intended to make money. It was essentially built in a barn and then presented to th executive team as hey look what we can do and it looked badass and it was a fast as anything on the market. The Viper is what you get when you don't let a committee design the car. The most that were ever made in a year was 3,083 in 1994. You can't make money producing so few with a price in the mid-50k range.

Atari_Prime

I would argue that the Viper is a great car. It all depends on what you want out of a car. If you want something that can go over speed bumps, has good gas mileage, is available in an automatic, is easy to see out of, has a great stereo, and blends in with the crowd, seek another car. If you want to draw the attention away from Lamborghinis, a gigantic thundering engine, two seats, monsterously fat tires, a relatively comfy suspension on quiet roads, and enough storage for a weekend getaway, then the Viper can do that. Also, it happens to be very reliable.

Atari_Prime

On the flip side there is me. I used to daily drive Corvettes, these days I have less practical sports cars in the garage. I drive them mostly on the weekend and to the occassional club rally. I find myself missing have a sports car as my daily driver. If the sports car is your daily driver you end up getting to know the car very well and the quirks of a sports car end up creating wonderful stories, such as when driving a C4 in a heavy downpour and you have a constant drip coming in from the targa top. It may be embarrassing but it also adds character and I don't think you can help but to laugh at the situation when it happens. You also quickly learn from listening on the regular that those Bose stereos that GM likes to sell us in our Vettes are quite terrible. But you also learn the cars limits, its personality, and soon enough you can drive it much better than your neighbor who only ever gets his out to wash it with a diaper.

To some degree it's like that orange velour couch that your mother had back in the 70s or for some of our members, that YOU had back in the 70s. Everyone wrapped the thing in plastic. Sure, it preserved it, but it also made it look ugly, caused it to sqeak, and made the entire couch pointless. We should have gotten it out and used it. Throw the plastic away. Cars are meant to be driven, and if you can afford to have a Vette (or any sports car) as your daily driver, do it. You may not preserve the car but you will have a damn good time owning the car.

Telepierre

I am willing to wager that most corvette drivers have at least another or more driving vehicles of different shapes, sizes and characteristics to be able to discern and appreciate each individual driving characteristics. I have four and I have to mention two personal exceptions relevant to this discussion.

I have ridden passenger for 30 minutes on a 2017 Audi R8 V10 (200K) and the car truly checks a lot of my ride asks. I felt the cabin was right sized and of a simple elegance to behold, the ride tight and precise and the seats comfortable, maybe not memorable as I am biased against well shaped but hard seats but good enough. Smooth ride BUT the engine noise in the back...matter on taste I suppose and maybe in time you get used to it but the noise was noticeable and I know a true car guy would say that is part of the experience...but a long ride? a cruise? not sure I would vote for that experience.

As for the Cayman, for me it's easy, two minutes in it and I knew right away the cabin size would not do it for me daily driving, long cruise, or just cover under the rain. It's just that tight and I am just a 5-9 175 pounds guy..

I guess I am a GT guy...