View Poll Results: Do you believe there will be a new generation FE alongside the ME?
Yes
43
17.99%
No
196
82.01%
Voters: 239. You may not vote on this poll
Do you believe there will be a new generation FE alongside the ME?
03-26-2019, 11:49 AM
#81
Assuming the link below is correct, to bring the numbers up from even 30k to 50k, you'd have to sell nearly the number of FE that you did in 2017, more than you did in 2018, while competing with 30k ME in sales. The math to make it work just isn't likely.
http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/chevr...sales-numbers/
http://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/chevr...sales-numbers/
On the supply side we really don't know what is the FE break even volume as well. Currently, it's not like the purported C8 delays is causing corvette to stop production of C7s because it is costing them money.. at least so it seems.
Maybe they are happy with the C7ZR1 alone!
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jefnvk (03-26-2019)
03-26-2019, 11:59 AM
#82
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: NE South Carolina
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I still remember the first time I visited the small Chevy Dealer who had agreed to accept Courtesy Delivery for my 2017 Grand Sport. That small showroom has only room for two vehicles. As expected in our rural area both were 4 door Silverado's with front bucket seats and probably all the fancy options. BOTH had stickers that were more than I paid for my Grand Sport, including the $250 flat fee the Dealer charged for Courtesy Delivery!
When you make 585,000 Silverado's (sales in 2018) that is where the profit comes from. Little doubt IMO those two trucks had more net profit for GM!
Guess my point is, although the Corvette is very important to me, Forum members (and others) GM has much bigger issues in this rapidly changing Car World.
Yep, in the 1980's I treated some product lines as "Cash Cows" while investing in profitable "Stars" like very profitable Plasma cutting systems and microprocessor controlled MIG welders BUT the "Cows" were much bigger! And that meant no new production equipment investment and minimum new product development effort for the "Cows!"
Just Sayn'
Last edited by JerryU; 03-26-2019 at 12:16 PM.
03-26-2019, 12:06 PM
#83
Totally agree. That is why I stated "profitable" vs "cash cow". I was simply emphasizing that it is not loosing money..
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JerryU (03-26-2019)
03-26-2019, 12:07 PM
#84
Melting Slicks
03-26-2019, 01:41 PM
#85
Moderator
Lets say GM spends $30,000,000 on a C7.5 and sells 40,000 of them over a three year period to the geezers. That works out to $750 per car and that's not that large of an investment in order to sell 40,000 cars to some old geezers that might not want a mid engine car. Might even help pay the light bill on a plant that is three times the size of the old C7 plant.
in 2017 Porsche sold 32,xxx 911's and 25,xxx Boxster's/Cayman's. That is two different platforms, with both contributing to the bottom line at Porsche. Does anyone believe that if Porsche dropped the Boxster/Cayman models that those people would automatically just jump to a 911 and sales would remain at 57,000?
In 2007 and 2008, there was a two platform Corvette(in loose terms, as they both were designed along the same lines).
Corvette….
2007------------------40,561
2008------------------35,310
Sky/Solstice.....
2007------------------27,830
2008------------------22,824
Apparently there was market for two different 2 seater sports cars from GM selling concurrently.
Also the Pontiac 2 seater mid engine was built concurrently with the Corvette front engine and both were GM sports cars.
Also the XLR was built concurrently with the C5/C6 and both were GM sports cars.
in 2017 Porsche sold 32,xxx 911's and 25,xxx Boxster's/Cayman's. That is two different platforms, with both contributing to the bottom line at Porsche. Does anyone believe that if Porsche dropped the Boxster/Cayman models that those people would automatically just jump to a 911 and sales would remain at 57,000?
In 2007 and 2008, there was a two platform Corvette(in loose terms, as they both were designed along the same lines).
Corvette….
2007------------------40,561
2008------------------35,310
Sky/Solstice.....
2007------------------27,830
2008------------------22,824
Apparently there was market for two different 2 seater sports cars from GM selling concurrently.
Also the Pontiac 2 seater mid engine was built concurrently with the Corvette front engine and both were GM sports cars.
Also the XLR was built concurrently with the C5/C6 and both were GM sports cars.
03-26-2019, 04:53 PM
#86
[QUOTE=jvp;1599112137]That'll happen just as soon as the lawmakers in Congress decide it's worth changing the laws that protect and require dealerships. And do you know when that'll happen?
...don't hold your breath.[/QUOTE
After watching Tesla have some early success, maybe not quite as much today, the dealers associations are lobbying state legislatures hard to keep the status quo and protect their dealer model
...don't hold your breath.[/QUOTE
After watching Tesla have some early success, maybe not quite as much today, the dealers associations are lobbying state legislatures hard to keep the status quo and protect their dealer model
03-26-2019, 05:17 PM
#87
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: NE South Carolina
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^^^
Good point with distribution changes occurring! More support IMO for only a C8 BUT with a number of variants that can be built on one assembly line!
Folks will stop all this silliness of negotiating with a local dealer to buy what they “think” you might like and has in inventory! I’ve ordered all 5 of my Vettes starting with my 1988, built “just for me” in Bowling Green. Yep even today IF I wanted an M7 could not buy one from a local lot! But even in 1988, a standard shift, with all the HD options and exterior and interior color I wanted - no way. Ordered it from the local dealer.
So dealers might buy some cheap C8’s with the inexpensive pushrod V8, small front brakes and skinny rear tires probably standard Bose etc.
But check the right boxes and get the higher hp Blackwing engine variant. Want a more energy efficient car check the box for a FWD hybrid.
Select another “Luxury Model” with it’s Blackwing engine offering, softer suspension and cast wheels that don’t bend with all-season tires. Check another box and it comes with real leather on more than the seating surface. It includes ~150 pounds of extra noise insulation so a high end sound system makes sense!
Then there are high hp Track and Street only models with larger turbo chargers and intercoolers.
All made “just for you” and GM builds a “Courtesy Delivery” cost into the more advanced models. All (or most) dealers will accept it for the extra $s. The average dealer doen’t need high level Corvette Sales folks, you just call and buy from a very knowledgable Forum Dealer!
Must see before buying, then get the cheap model that your local dealer may have. The others are probably too expansive anyway! Those options won't be cheap!
Good point with distribution changes occurring! More support IMO for only a C8 BUT with a number of variants that can be built on one assembly line!
Folks will stop all this silliness of negotiating with a local dealer to buy what they “think” you might like and has in inventory! I’ve ordered all 5 of my Vettes starting with my 1988, built “just for me” in Bowling Green. Yep even today IF I wanted an M7 could not buy one from a local lot! But even in 1988, a standard shift, with all the HD options and exterior and interior color I wanted - no way. Ordered it from the local dealer.
So dealers might buy some cheap C8’s with the inexpensive pushrod V8, small front brakes and skinny rear tires probably standard Bose etc.
But check the right boxes and get the higher hp Blackwing engine variant. Want a more energy efficient car check the box for a FWD hybrid.
Select another “Luxury Model” with it’s Blackwing engine offering, softer suspension and cast wheels that don’t bend with all-season tires. Check another box and it comes with real leather on more than the seating surface. It includes ~150 pounds of extra noise insulation so a high end sound system makes sense!
Then there are high hp Track and Street only models with larger turbo chargers and intercoolers.
All made “just for you” and GM builds a “Courtesy Delivery” cost into the more advanced models. All (or most) dealers will accept it for the extra $s. The average dealer doen’t need high level Corvette Sales folks, you just call and buy from a very knowledgable Forum Dealer!
Must see before buying, then get the cheap model that your local dealer may have. The others are probably too expansive anyway! Those options won't be cheap!
Last edited by JerryU; 03-26-2019 at 06:12 PM.
03-26-2019, 06:55 PM
#88
Le Mans Master
The dealer franchise rules are state laws. The reform effort requires separate actions in all fifty states.
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John T (03-26-2019)
03-26-2019, 08:18 PM
#90
Racer
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03-26-2019, 08:53 PM
#91
Le Mans Master
Congress cannot "easily" pass legislation if the votes are not there. The laws in question are state laws and the effort to reform them is being done at the state level.
03-26-2019, 09:41 PM
#93
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: NE South Carolina
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^^^
My suggested 'change' does not cause a dealer to "lose" anything! It's more like Amazon! GM offers a "Courtesy Delivery" fee (built into the price of the more "advanced" C8 models) that will allow more dealers to accept doing it! Sure some won't, but at the "right added fee from GM" enough will so buying from a high discount "Vette knowledgeable dealer" will be fine for most folks.
The days of negotiating with a local dealer who is ordering what "they think" you might like is over! Sure the base, lowest cost C8 with pushrod V8, small brakes, entry Bose might be what the average dealer buys and inventories. That level car may not have the same added fee. But the higher levels, with wider paint color selection, real leather interior and engine options can be ordered from any dealer but "most folks" will gravitate toward the lower price offer, Vette knowledgeable Forum level dealers. The local dealer still gets the revenue for ongoing service.
My suggested 'change' does not cause a dealer to "lose" anything! It's more like Amazon! GM offers a "Courtesy Delivery" fee (built into the price of the more "advanced" C8 models) that will allow more dealers to accept doing it! Sure some won't, but at the "right added fee from GM" enough will so buying from a high discount "Vette knowledgeable dealer" will be fine for most folks.
The days of negotiating with a local dealer who is ordering what "they think" you might like is over! Sure the base, lowest cost C8 with pushrod V8, small brakes, entry Bose might be what the average dealer buys and inventories. That level car may not have the same added fee. But the higher levels, with wider paint color selection, real leather interior and engine options can be ordered from any dealer but "most folks" will gravitate toward the lower price offer, Vette knowledgeable Forum level dealers. The local dealer still gets the revenue for ongoing service.
Last edited by JerryU; 03-26-2019 at 09:57 PM.
03-26-2019, 10:21 PM
#94
Melting Slicks
I think there will be some sort of version of a front engine car. I think the mid-engine car will be a higher level car to compete against other mid-engine supercars but be priced much lower, but there will still be a front engine car of some sort that can be priced around $60k. I actually didn't even see this thread first but put a video on youtube sharing these exact thoughts yesterday. If you are interested, the full video is on my YT channel: My YouTube Channel (sorry, i would link the video, but then a big preview screen would show up here, and I'm not specifically trying to promote it. i'll spare you guys the video whoring!)
I'll bet the mid-engine car is released alongside the C7 for a year or two, or they halt production of the base model for a year and build a base FE model for a 2021 model.
But, if I'm wrong and they can price a mid-engine DCT car at $60k, then that's a win for all of us!!
I'll bet the mid-engine car is released alongside the C7 for a year or two, or they halt production of the base model for a year and build a base FE model for a 2021 model.
But, if I'm wrong and they can price a mid-engine DCT car at $60k, then that's a win for all of us!!
Last edited by m48xhp; 03-26-2019 at 10:34 PM. Reason: remove YT preview
03-27-2019, 06:47 AM
#95
Just finished reading the "WoW" thread...
So the purported existence of a C7.5 went from 0% to 40%...IMHO
So ME exists. Plans for FE "next gen" with LT2 and DCT are slightly more credible.
So now the question is:
FE 7.5 for just one/two years THEN ONLY C8? (with 5/6 years of spy shots...)
Worth the trouble?
So the purported existence of a C7.5 went from 0% to 40%...IMHO
So ME exists. Plans for FE "next gen" with LT2 and DCT are slightly more credible.
So now the question is:
FE 7.5 for just one/two years THEN ONLY C8? (with 5/6 years of spy shots...)
Worth the trouble?
03-27-2019, 10:40 AM
#96
just finished reading the "wow" thread...
So the purported existence of a c7.5 went from 0% to 40%...imho
so me exists. Plans for fe "next gen" with lt2 and dct are slightly more credible.
So now the question is:
Fe 7.5 for just one/two years then only c8? (with 5/6 years of spy shots...)
worth the trouble?
So the purported existence of a c7.5 went from 0% to 40%...imho
so me exists. Plans for fe "next gen" with lt2 and dct are slightly more credible.
So now the question is:
Fe 7.5 for just one/two years then only c8? (with 5/6 years of spy shots...)
worth the trouble?
03-27-2019, 10:59 AM
#100