Warp Factor

How would Car and Driver know that? Do they buy them anonymously off showroom floors? Do they tear them down and check every part against several known samples, including every bit of programming in the computer?

Telepierre

Statement materially false for the GT2RS.
For the tires It has already been ascertained since the 2017 GT2RS and GT3RS (fake) records that the CUP 2 Rs were neither homologated neither available at the dealership (thanks to the German Porsche club). They were in fact a special order to Michelin to equip solely the "fleet" of cars for media events.
Same basically for the Weissach package and other "stripping" alleged to be readily available at the dealership.

Mostly conjecture and innuendo question and the proverbial moral equivalency trick to distract from the subject at hand.

I suggest that if you want to allege that both ZR1 and Z06 were not stock the best way to do it is to deliberately state it instead of question/innuendo.

For my part, I suspect both ZR1 and Z06 were fitted with the corresponding track packages which to the best of my knowledge, unlike the GTs, are readily available as factory options and do bring up the price of the base.
If you know otherwise state your case.

Apologies, not going further as this thread is not about track records at all...
Maybe the CNBC article implies knowledge on exotics we are not aware of. I just brought up the fact the "record 911" is not in there..

gthal

We know you hate Porsche. Cup 2 R tire is standard and a "special" compound isn't shaving all that much time off what is already effectively a race tire. Besides, almost every car tested has been highly regarded and that would suggest every one had those sneaky special tires. Regardless, could you point to the source? Fake news, fake news!! Say it enough and it's true

https://www.roadandtrack.com/new-car...t-nurburgring/

Bottom line is track times are a bit academic but for anyone who has driven a Porsche RS car, they can almost universally talk about why there are few cars that feel and perform like it. The ZR1 is a great car. The GT2/3 RS are great cars. Your personal mission to discredit Porsche is curious to say the least.

Besides, the C8 will in short order break all C7 ZR1 records handily so who cares!

Wideout

I don't read posts about people that have problems with their vette, nor have I seen one broken down. I do however laugh when Mustangs do a burnout and get sideways. It isn't jealousy, but I don't mind if you make that assumption.

gthal

Throw out bearing went in my C7. I laughed at myself. Maybe others laughed at me too. Oh well

BEAR-AvHistory

Why laugh instead of offering help when someone has car trouble? My fuel pump committed suicide on a hot summer day & quite a few people stopped to offer help including some snacks & bottled water.

Think you need to get used to & man up to the fact that someone is always going to have a more expensive car then you do.

flyforfun

After this article, anyone thinking they will offer the base for under $80K is living in La La Land

Zora_Vette

Anyone thinking the base will start over $70K needs to come back down to Earth.

SingleTrackMinded

Why does it always have to be us (Vette) against them (insert any car here). Some of us just like cool cars, regardless of the brand.

Nordic_Samurai

Corvettes have always been tremendous value for the performance, and with a few mods they can definitely be in the conversation with certain Ferraris, Lamboghinis, and McLarens. However, people don't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on supercars simply for performance. Build quality, especially for the interior, is a big factor, but more than anything, it is the cache of driving a car that not everyone has. No different that the frequent posts on this site when discussing the specs of the newest Camaros and/or Mustangs. They are great cars, but they are not Corvettes!!

Telepierre

? We?....are you an official spokesperson?

Not the least hateful of any make and brand. I have stated multiple times the 911 is the only remaining quintessential "classic" car, well built and arguably (depending on model) one the most sexy "butts/rears" ever designed. Come the right age and attitude I can see myself easily strolling around on weekends with my wife in a nice used 911 for leisure driving (maybe). I am also of the opinion the car does not belong in the top five of the regular street sport performance echelon. They are marketing-stretching the platform and IMHO their clever efforts are becoming increasingly evident.

I'll admit, as a test engineer I have a strong dislike for deceptive advertising especially when pursued by slight of hand "cheating". Most of the time it backfires.

This is a classic and wordy rationalization of cheating. "I do it because everybody does it" which in comparative testing is BS!
Additionally you are also intentionally attempting to diminish the effort (in this case) by rationalizing the effect of the cheating as being small and therefore negligible. Noted.

Your request for source is rather laughable, 2017-2019...where have you been!? Magazine world?

You can easily find the whole thing by simple google search on Porsche forums, this CF forum (see Ring threads/ N.A Porsche VP statements) and most importantly track forums especially the German ones. All of it! The CUP 2 R disguise, the OEM fiasco and so on and so on.

Back to track reality, I actually I find it ironic the real "enemy" of the Porsche GT cars is really the McLaren PDR installed on Z06s with their live accounts of what happens when they encounter STOCK Porsche GT cars...

To think that by all accounts of car magazine connoisseurs "they" were supposed to gap all the competition by 30 seconds for each ring lap.... :-)

I wonder what happened?

BIG Dave

Bottom line, just as we rarely cross-shop cars with comparable performance to Corvettes (some Mustangs, some Chryslers / Dodge with Hemis, etc), anyone shopping for a Ferrari/Lamborghini/McLaren won’t be cross-shopping a Corvette. Corvettes don’t have anywhere near the exclusivity factor that the F/L/M cars have. And when cross-shipping Corvettes, those F/L/M buyers run the risk that their equally wealthy friends will laugh at them (some F/L/M buyers care about that, some don’t).

So the next next time someone here thinks that the F/L/M crowd are cross-shopping Corvettes, imagine yourself cross-shopping the latest “Hi-Po” Subaru, Hyundai, Kia, etc. In most cases, it doesn’t happen.

lt4obsesses

This is a really interesting topic. A lot of great points in here.

This car is going to create a little stir in the market, I believe, and here's why

I agree that those that buy the high end Euro cars are not going to abandon them for a Chevrolet. Those cars are garage bling and status markers for them, and the Corvette is not going to be that. However, for those that like the driving experience, and want a car that they can take to track and thrash it, the Corvette is going to be that car. For those folks, if they can pop for a new $300K to $500K or more exotic, adding a sub $100K "track car" to the stable probably won't be a budget breaker.

For those folks that haven't joined the Corvette fold because they prefer the mid engine experience, and are stuck with the option of finding a used exotic and all the possible headache that 'could' come with that, now they at least have that choice, do I buy a used exotic, or do I buy a new Corvette? A parallel performance experience without the added expense risk might be a compelling temptation for this group.

Point is, this car is going to be 'driver's' car. I think that we can rest easy in that GM is going keep that formula of parallel performance, if not better, for a bargain price compared the others. No, it won't be hand built, yes from time to time there may be an 'off' panel gap and some orange peel. No it won't have the ultra exotic materials and feel. But it will be nice, and more importantly, it will satisfy that adrenaline rush 'driver's' seek. Even more importantly, it can be driven anywhere, any time, all the time, without the owner worrying that a mishap, or failure might lead to filing Chapter 7.

jschindler

i agree. And as to why everyone is looking at the exotics, the answer is incredibly simple. On any given weekend you can go to a grocery store, gas station, fast food restaurant etc and see all the Corvettes you want to see. But you will likely go for months without seeing a true “exotic” out in public.

pdiddy972

Links to some examples would be fun...

Telepierre

Not keen on taking the thread off course... and talking P car when it's not otherwise mentioned..
Posting one and the rest can be easily searched:


Serious on the edge..and reading on comments Z06 prevails.. which is really not the point..but I think you understood the point...

gthal

Not sure I understand the point of the video? Is it to show that the Porsche driver isn't as skilled? Races are meaningless if evaluating cars without equalizing for driver which is impossible to do. A great driver in far lesser car could pass the GT2 without a good driver (not saying the Z06 is a lesser car but you get my point). Anyway, video isn't really useful.

pdiddy972

Maybe the Porsche driver is more skilled and it wasn't enough to overcome the car's deficiencies?

gthal

True!! The point is, no one can tell either way so you can't use it as a way to compare the car itself. Driver makes a WAY bigger difference than car... well, if it was a Civic and a Z06, driver may not matter then

pdiddy972

Right - So, since we know nothing about each driver's capabilities, we'll just go with what we see, a Corvette beating up a GT2.