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"And should a collision occur, a light aluminum space frame provides added stiffness"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have driven space frame cars for 30+ years and written about GM on BusinessWeek. I'm the last person who is going to post something factually incorrect.
GM's first try at ME had timeless styling, but needed more HP. The Fiero was the first production space frame car in 1984. Corvette joined the space frame party 13 years later with the 1997 C5! Sorry, but the Fiero was GM's technological leading edge car in the 1980's, not the Corvette!
FYI- for anyone that does not like the C8 styling, a Fiero GT can accommodate an early ls engine series swap and will still weigh 450 pounds less. I will take the shorter wheelbase car every day of the week. The Fiero is the perfect size for a ME, about the same size as a Boxster.
When the Fastback 1986 Fiero GT was first shown to the media, some of them thought it was a new Corvette! Before closing the Fiero plant in 1988, GM considered moving Fiero production to Bowling Green and decided against it. If they did, there could have been a production ME Corvette almost 30 years ago. The Fiero turned a profit every year it was sold but was becoming a threat to the Corvette.
FYI- Pontiac had two Alcan aluminum chassis Fiero's in 1986 with the '88 suspension updates. One with a v8 blew the doors off a Corvette in a race at the Milford Proving Grounds. Both cars were ordered crushed after big wigs from Detroit witnessed it. Twenty years later the Zo6 first rode on an aluminum space frame. Those Alcan cars would have had a 700+ pound weight advantage over the base Vette.
Since the C5 came out in 1997 with the transaxle, GM could have built a ME Vette any time they wanted to off the existing chassis since space frames are very flexible platforms.
FYI-My 140hp stock 1988 Fiero GT can match the 0-30 time of the 1997 345hp C5, 2.2 seconds! Being 500 pounds lighter than a C5 and ME is a big advantage.
I know that one of those aluminum chassis prototypes had a LG0 or W41 code Oldsmobile HO Quad 4 engine with a 5-spd Getrag 282 with the 3.94:1 final drive gear. I always thought the best power plant for the '88 later Fiero would have been the s/c 3800 L67 V6 Series I engine, if it would have stayed in production long enough. If you are doing a swap, then a warmed over Series III L32 s/c 3.8L or even 5.3L LS4 would be crazy over the top even with the 4T65E-HD 4-spd automatic. I have even see a couple with the Oldsmobile 4.0L / Cadillac 4.6L Northstar V8 and 4L80E 4-spd automatic.
What is the point of the big opening on the side of the car? Is this to bring air into the engine?
Air has to travel across heat exchangers to keep engine/transmission/rear diff fluids cool
The shorter and shorter the noses of these cars become, the less and less surface area/volume of heat exchangers that can be located at the front of the car.
Thus, there have to be heat exchangers put at the back of the car. Thus, air needs to be flowed across the heat exchangers to extract the heat from the HX.
Ah yes, nothing says 21st Century quite like 0-30mph. We are moving now...feel the speed. Oh look, the Fiero just passed 40mph.
Normally people post when they have something to add to the conversation, try it sometime. A ME will launch like a AWD car. You may not like it that a car with 205 fewer hp can equal the c5 time from 0-30, but it's the truth. You can thank Chevrolet for the Fiero never having more than 140 stock hp. A proposed 2.9L aluminum twin turbo Pontiac exclusive engine with about 290 hp was considered for 1985, it never made it to market. The 1989 Fiero pictured below would have had a 3.4L engine in the GT with it being close in length to the Corvette. That car never saw the light of day. GM shot themselves in the foot by not stopping Fiero production even though the 4 cylinder cars had GM connecting rods with a known high failure rate supplied by their Saginaw foundry. Any car can have a fire. That appears to be a rare yellow 88 GT w v6 you have pictured, it would not have had any faulty connecting rods. GM could have had today three unique cars that appealed to different markets (Fiero GT, Corvette and the Buick Grand National) if Chevy could have handled some internal competition.
I know that one of those aluminum chassis prototypes had a LG0 or W41 code Oldsmobile HO Quad 4 engine with a 5-spd Getrag 282 with the 3.94:1 final drive gear. I always thought the best power plant for the '88 later Fiero would have been the s/c 3800 L67 V6 Series I engine, if it would have stayed in production long enough. If you are doing a swap, then a warmed over Series III L32 s/c 3.8L or even 5.3L LS4 would be crazy over the top even with the 4T65E-HD 4-spd automatic. I have even see a couple with the Oldsmobile 4.0L / Cadillac 4.6L Northstar V8 and 4L80E 4-spd automatic.
The Grand Prix 3.8L is a very popular Fiero swap, many people have done LS series swaps.
GM supposedly had a Fiero with a Buick Grand National engine in it at Milford that someone crashed into a dumpster.
I know that one of those aluminum chassis prototypes had a LG0 or W41 code Oldsmobile HO Quad 4 engine with a 5-spd Getrag 282 with the 3.94:1 final drive gear. I always thought the best power plant for the '88 later Fiero would have been the s/c 3800 L67 V6 Series I engine, if it would have stayed in production long enough. If you are doing a swap, then a warmed over Series III L32 s/c 3.8L or even 5.3L LS4 would be crazy over the top even with the 4T65E-HD 4-spd automatic. I have even see a couple with the Oldsmobile 4.0L / Cadillac 4.6L Northstar V8 and 4L80E 4-spd automatic.
One of a few shops that still does conversions, listing the engines they use. Guy in town long ago had the Northstar swap. Interesting to drive say the least. Used the whole Northstar package including trans.
I’m thinking the “spice red” interior is actually morello as shown in that early order sheet. At least I am hoping so. It’s a darker, richer red than adrenaline red.
"And should a collision occur, a light aluminum space frame provides added stiffness"
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ I have driven space frame cars for 30+ years and written about GM on BusinessWeek. I'm the last person who is going to post something factually incorrect.
If C4 isn't a space frame, what is it? And what differences make Fiero a space frame? Shaka, do you have a link to a previous post you've made on the subject?
So GM is falsely describing what they’ve been building for over 20 years now?
Why haven’t you sued them for a dangerous mischaracterization? You could be the next Ralph Nader!
Ask Tadge to describe the C7 chassis in the 'Ask Tadge' section, why don't you? You watch CNN also? Pay careful attention to the way I 'framed' my question.
Tell him that there is someone on the forum that questions his abilities.
If C4 isn't a space frame, what is it? And what differences make Fiero a space frame? Shaka, do you have a link to a previous post you've made on the subject?
Google search can help you a bit for definitions but even then, you can't believe everything you read on the internet, which includes this forum. If you are so inclined, I can suggest some books, but there again, you would have already read all the good ones if you were that interested. I don't have the link but I prefer ridicule than imparting information these days.
I'm not familiar with the Fiero's chassis but it would be some type of unitized steel chassis and not a space frame. I have nothing but disdain for the level of ignorance of some of the members here so I treat them accordingly.
The C4 is an example ancient chassis construction basically no different to the C1,C5, 6 and 7. They are perimeter frame chassis or uni frame chassis. The operative word is 'chassis' and not "frame'.
Its a new thing using these two words to describe auto structures especially if you can tack on the body panels to them. By adding aluminum bulk heads, the perimeter frame gains some torsional resistance but the C7 still flexes like a bitch. The C6Z had a fixed roof which helped regidity
C4
C6Z C7
C7 flex when jacking
C8 B K C8 B P J
The C8 is unique and has two cast magnesium sub 'frames' connected by two hydro-formed aluminum members and a central carbon fiber back bone. The upper rear A arms are attached to a pressed aluminum structure which by so doing, it can't be referred to as a space frame. A unique structure which can be repaired unlike the current aluminum chassis Vettes. Gillardo/ A8 space frame contains all suspension hard points within the structure.
My pure mild steel round tube space frames My pure square tube space frame. You got to spend a lot of money to build a better frame than this.
I only build mild steel round or square tube triangulated space frames where the tubes are placed in tension no matter where the load is applied. Round tubes usually can't be repaired.
06-12-2019, 06:41 PM
