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I'd just hate to have another 200HP, get better fuel mileage, AWD and pay less than a blower option.
No hybrid for me thank you. Sounds awful.
I'd like a couple of 4 barrels, points, run it real rich and change plugs every week. I'd show those tree huggers.
Funny, yep the "good old days" when my modified Corvair ate plugs! Tuning those 4 barrels was so easy! Points pitting were so much fun!
Built a 502/502 crate motor from parts that came in some 30 boxes when I semi-retired. It was going to be "so easy" to turn my light weight Street Rod for 0 to 60 runs! Well, not so easy! Went through many plugs until I found a Bosh copper core with Yttrium alloy electrodes that finally covered the heat range so they were not fouling when cruising and not burning up with WOT runs!
The Holley Carb was tougher! Crate motor came with an 850 Vacuum Secondary, perhaps OK for a heavier car BUT not for a light Street Rod with a 4 bar link suspension, engine set-back with 53% of it's weight on the rear 16.5 inch section width (420 mm) sticky Micky Thompson's that can "hook-up!" Had a slight bog or hesitation. Tried all the Vacuum Secondary tricks, bigger primary accelerator pump, spring kits for secondary opening etc. Switched to a Holley 850 Double Pumper the Holley rep at a National NHRA Meet said would do the job.
Well, not so simple. Added an Oxygen Sensor in the header collector with a meter and found out it was still going lean at launch! Took adding two 50 cc accelerator pumps BUT could not dump all that fuel so had to find the correct accelerator pump cam that gave a quick shot but did not use the full 50 cc's. Also had to increase "squitter size," by trial and error. But a 1+ "g" launch uncovers the secondary power valve sucking in air. Installed a secondary valve blocker and a secondary jet extensions to get fuel from the back of the bowl! That requires a notched float. Bought a kit with some 20 jet pairs and with trial and error and some careful math found the combo that was not too rich or learn at launch and at WOT! No more slight bog or hesitation!
Funny, yep the "good old days" when my modified Corvair ate plugs! Tuning those 4 barrels was so easy! Points pitting were so much fun!
Built a 502/502 crate motor from parts that came in some 30 boxes when I semi-retired. It was going to be "so easy" to turn my light weight Street Rod for 0 to 60 runs! Well, not so easy! Went through many plugs until I found a Bosh copper core with Yttrium alloy electrodes that finally covered the heat range so they were not fouling when cruising and not burning up with WOT runs!
The Holley Carb was tougher! Crate motor came with an 850 Vacuum Secondary, perhaps OK for a heavier car BUT not for a light Street Rod with a 4 bar link suspension, engine set-back with 53% of it's weight on the rear 16.5 inch section width (420 mm) sticky Micky Thompson's that can "hook-up!" Had a slight bog or hesitation. Tried all the Vacuum Secondary tricks, bigger primary accelerator pump, spring kits for secondary opening etc. Switched to a Holley 850 Double Pumper the Holley rep at a National NHRA Meet said would do the job.
Well, not so simple. Added an Oxygen Sensor in the header collector with a meter and found out it was still going lean at launch! Took adding two 50 cc accelerator pumps BUT could not dump all that fuel so had to find the correct accelerator pump cam that gave a quick shot but did not use the full 50 cc's. Also had to increase "squitter size," by trial and error. But a 1+ "g" launch uncovers the secondary power valve sucking in air. Installed a secondary valve blocker and a secondary jet extensions to get fuel from the back of the bowl! That requires a notched float. Bought a kit with some 20 jet pairs and with trial and error and some careful math found the combo that was not too rich or learn at launch and at WOT! No more slight bog or hesitation!
Yep just need the "good old days!"
I'll bet you wish you'd started with one of those EFI kits that bolt on the 4 BBL manifold with ECU? But you had fun.
Look I've done pretty bad with my 'zuki 1200 with jet kit and muffler but I was only getting it to run right.
I'll bet you wish you'd started with one of those EFI kits that bolt on the 4 BBL manifold with ECU? But you had fun.
When I retired 20 years ago I built the street rod. Having worked 10+ hours/day for most of my career needed to keep busy and the 1000+ hours I have in building the car was a big help! (Retired early and started my current part time Internet based business when the car was finished!) Spent 12+ hours/day, planning and working on the car! Tuning also took time with lots of trial and error but finally solved the Holley issue with an Oxygen Sensor and calculating the reason for fuel issues on a high "g" launch!
Much more work than the 4 barrel I rebuilt and put on the Olds engine I "stuffed" in my '41 Ford Coupe ~40 year prior when in High School. Was not as critical at that time nor where the tires, etc. of the day capable of achieved a high "g" launch. Whole Street Rod project was a lot of fun!
I have several pages on my website that define the details of tuning a Holley. Surprised they still get a lot of views!
.I'm 75 years old and driving a Mercedes AMG GTS. I have a deposit down for a C8 but I believe that the future of performance vehicles lies in hybrid technology, for many reasons. Hybrid AWD is also THE way to go for performance. I had a Mercedes CLS63 S AMG before the GT and, with AWD the car was able to put power down with no wheel spin. Not true with the Cadillace CTS (6-speed manual wagon) I had before the CLS63 or with the AMG GT. Both lose acceleration to rear wheel spin. All three cars were shod with Michelin Super Sport or Pilot Sport 4S tires and had 0-60 times in the low to mid threes and 1/4 mile times in the low to mid elevens, even the two with RWD.. Formula 1 cars are hybrid and have tiny, 1500 cc 6-cylinder engines that put out 600 hp along with electric motors that add 300 hp. Mercedes will be going all hybrid with their AMG cars in 2021, for two primary reasons - increased performance and increased fuel economy. I will buy an AWD hybrid Vette in a heartbeat when it's offered, if I can afford it.
Old guys don't like new technology? BS. I've had many performance cars, including three Corvettes. We old adrenaline junkies welcome the new technology. I was always a manual transmission guy until I had my last two Mercedes. The 7-speed dual clutch tranny in the AMG GT S is fantastic. Although I use the paddle shifters a lot, automatic shifting in Sport Plus or Track mode. the up and downshifts are spot-on and faster than I can shift with the paddles. Magnetic ride is another technology that revolutionizes performance AND safety. Come on more and even better tech!
See you at the track.
I'd just hate to have another 200HP, get better fuel mileage, AWD and pay less than a blower option.
No hybrid for me thank you. Sounds awful.
I'd like a couple of 4 barrels, points, run it real rich and change plugs every week. I'd show those tree huggers.
I run the original distributors in my '56 and my '64. Spent very little money and installed a Pertronix in each car along with a bug zapper 50,000 volt coil and matching plug wires. Plugs don't foul with that setup and I don't run my cars "rich".
While not as fast as my "distributorless" C6 Z06, they are a hell of a fun ride.
.I'm 75 years old .....I have a deposit down for a C8 but I believe that the future of performance vehicles lies in hybrid technology, for many reasons. Hybrid AWD is also THE way to go for performance. ….
Old guys don't like new technology? BS. I've had many performance cars, including three Corvettes. We old adrenaline junkies welcome the new technology. I was always a manual transmission guy …. Come on more and even better tech!
.
76, and have only driven standard shifts for my DD in 60 years! This is my 5th Vette, all DDs. I have "hold-a-spot" money down on a C8! Will be my 1st DD without a 3rd pedal. Looking forward to a new experience PLUS 0 to 60 in 3 seconds! Performance trumps transmission type. Could not reach that acceleration with a manual in a DD!
Heck even my 3000 lb street rod with a set back 502/502 BB, long tube headers, Holley double pumper with 53% weight on a pair of 16.5 section width Mickey Thompsons can't get to 60 mph in 3 seconds!
Also agree, the Andy Pilgrim "leaked" FWD hybrid for the C8 can yield better performance AND in normal driving, a small battery can get the car up to cruising speed on the FWD electric motors before turning on the ICE! That motor can become a generator when braking.
I mean I guess I understand the argument, but honestly that's almost like saying, "I'm not interested in the Porsche 918, or LaFerrari, or P1."
Granted at the beginning people were rightfully skeptical, however after the launch of the "trinity" hybrid super cars, the skepticism quickly dissipated. After those 3 cars marked a new performance benchmark for the ability of hybrid/ice drive train, I find it hard to believe any car enthusiast wouldn't want that level of performance if affordable.
^^^
Yep not "only" performance BUT if the "No Fossil Fuel Crowd" gets control you'll also be able to at least get to the grocery store without gasoline! These are the specs for the latest Ferrari supercar: "Ferrari has announced its first plug-in hybrid car, the SF90 Stradale. Alongside its V8 turbo engine, which the company claims has the highest output of any 8-cylinder in its history, the car has a total of three electric motors. Combined, the combustion engine and motors produce 985 horsepower, allowing the car to accelerate from 0–62 mph in just 2.5 seconds and reach a maximum speed of 211 mph.
Using eDrive mode, gives a 15 mile all electric range enough for a quick trip to the store or a short commute.. At least those 15 miles will pass quickly: Ferrari advertises that the SF90 Stradale can hit a maximum of around 84 mph without its combustion engine. This engine will also automatically turn off entirely when you reverse the car, meaning the car’s gearbox doesn’t need to include a reverse gear."
Don't worry the C8 with less hp should be able to get ~50 mile range in all electric mode!
I chuckle at those who say, "I don't give a dam about gas mileage." I don't either but the manufactures do to meet their corporate average mpg goals that MUST be met by car family (Corvette is a family) and although some offset is allowed it's NOT a simple arithmetic average with the number of Volts sold!) If the "No Fossil Fuel Folks" gain power, it's easy to force that direction! Just set the Federal Gas Tax to ~$10 to $15/gallon, which they they can pass quickly! They will sell it on the basis of "Saving the Planet" and have a plastic gas card like the current SNAP card ( Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program) for those that qualify! So if you qualify for what was called the "Food Stamp Program," you're fine!
I'll be laughing at all those who will be saying, "What Happened" as I fill up my C8 and my ~10 mpg Street Rod, since I (and many forum members) can afford it! Some won't be so happy!
So, apparently the C8 high performance models will go hybrid. I am all for better gas mileage, lower emissions, and other advantages, including powering the front wheels without a driveshaft, torque vectoring, etc. Too many goodies to list actually.
And I am fully aware of Porsche and Ferrari high end models are hybrid and the NSX went hybrid, and the great performance associated with hybrid.
I am NOT against any of that. I think the tech is cool.
BUT, I just cannot put my finger on why I do not think I would be interested in a high performance hybrid. I just cannot pick apart my own brain as to why it does not appeal to me.
I think I have a mental block of some sort, knowing/thinking that the repair and maintenance costs skyrocket on hybrids. That, and also knowing that the battery has a set life span.
for some reason I have a mental block about this hybrid C8. I think I would rather just have a high output mid engine, which I assume might be the Z06.
I surely do not want to be an early adaptor. Not out of fear of the tech and not out of fear of reliability issues. I just see the electric hybrid as a step to full electric. and I rather just go full electric once the range of the batteries can be extended a bit more than todays range.
Any other opinions ?
Relax...the Z06 is positioned as an everyman's Supercar and a hydrid would be way too expensive. Perhaps downrange "Zora" model but the Z06 will need a powerplant that is readily available and cheaply produced to keep it near the $100K price point. I am still not convinced GM will deviate from the LT4 engine in the current Z06 as it would allow them to just do a plug and play.
Whether or not you will buy it, I expect that the projections of the Zora having an electric motor for each front wheel will be true. And that will be a stopgap. The C9 will likely be all electric. With the eCOPO Camaro running low 10's and expected to be deep in the 9's as it is developed and the Tesla Roadster talking about 1.X 0-60 mph times I expect that is what we have to look forward to.
The good thing is that for those that want old school there are always a lot of early generation Corvettes for sale. Still lots of people wearing automatic watches in the age of quartz and Apple Watches. So go with what floats your boat.
... I expect that the projections of the Zora having an electric motor for each front wheel will be true. .
From what Andy Pilgrim "leaked" several months ago as one reason for an ME (no doubt authorized by GM) saying it leaves room for a FWD hybrid, my thought is it will have a central electric motor.
Perhaps like this "Twister X 160 hp" motor with a 2:1 gearbox to double the torque when accelerating then automatically switching. It also has what is like an eLSD to manage the torque to each wheel when accelerating out of a turn. Perhaps just a simpler central motor or as you say motors on both wheels.
Volt was the best hybrid around, Just perceived as costing too much.
MIT, Chicago, Stanford, and Cal Tech cannot turn out engineers to help Chevy compete with Toyota? Really?
I bought my 2017 Volt new for $26,500. It's quicker, quieter, and handles at least as well as the car it replaced: a 2011 VW Golf TDI that averaged 46mpg over its 100k mile life, and it still saves about $700 in fuel costs every year. I got the Volt in March of 2016 and since the ICE in it almost never runs, I haven't even had to change the oil yet. In the summer, it'll get 75-80 miles between charges...which always seems to be enough to do all of our "running around". A C8 EV would finally pry me out of my GS. Electric is where it's at. I've always loved Corvettes in spite of their sound, not because of it.
To me, a sports car requires three major factors. Acceleration, handling and sound (exhaust note). A hybrid engine should not impact any of those three factors in a negative way if done correctly.
I own an NSX and this is basically what you’re talking about. More power, but same concept. It’s a better car than my Z06. I can typically have more fun in my Z06. I don’t want the hybrid model of a C8. If the Z06 version is hybrid I’ll just back track and get a regular C8 and enjoy the RWD.
Is is your NSX the new platform hybrid version ?
If if so can you post more about your driving experiences in it compared to your Z06 ? ( please ?)
09-03-2019, 09:32 PM
When I retired 20 years ago I built the street rod. Having worked 10+ hours/day for most of my career needed to keep busy and the 1000+ hours I have in building the car was a big help! (Retired early and started my current part time Internet based business when the car was finished!) Spent 12+ hours/day, planning and working on the car! Tuning also took time with lots of trial and error but finally solved the Holley issue with an Oxygen Sensor and calculating the reason for fuel issues on a high "g" launch!
