When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
The low grade leathers all go by names that never identify what the product is. The use non industry terms such as mulan, Corinthian, etc. It all means some form of bonded leather.
From the Federal Trade Commission: "Ground, pulverized, shredded, reconstituted, or bonded leather. A material in an industry product that contains ground, pulverized, shredded, reconstituted, or bonded leather and thus is not wholly the hide of an animal should not be represented, directly or by implication, as being leather. This provision does not preclude an accurate representation as to the ground, pulverized, shredded, reconstituted, or bonded leather content of the material. However, if the material appears to be leather, it should be accompanied by either:(1) An adequate disclosure as described by paragraph (a) of this section; or
(2) If the terms "ground leather," "pulverized leather," "shredded leather," "reconstituted leather," or "bonded leather" are used, a disclosure of the percentage of leather fibers and the percentage of non-leather substances contained in the material. For example: An industry product made of a composition material consisting of 60% shredded leather fibers may be described as: Bonded Leather Containing 60% Leather Fibers and 40% Non-leather Substances."
How eager do you think GM is to run afoul of the FTC?
Originally Posted by Cameroni79
The low grade leathers all go by names that never identify what the product is. The use non industry terms such as mulan, Corinthian, etc. It all means some form of bonded leather.
As far as I have been able to determine so far, "Corinthian" leather was also a genuine and complete leather product, and not a "bonded leather". However, it didn't come from some exotic foreign source as the name implied, but from a tannery in New Jersey.
I think some of the myths about leathers are perpetuated by car salesmen, trying to talk customers into spending more money.
On second thought, no salesman would ever do something like that, would they?
Last edited by Warp Factor; 10-18-2019 at 09:54 AM.
How eager do you think GM is to run afoul of the FTC?
Apparently that guideline requiring them to disclose the content of bonded leather doesn't apply to automotive interiors or furniture. It seems pretty obvious that, "Mulan" leather is bonded, i.e. fake. and Napa is real leather.
But Federal Trade Commission guidelines say that any non-leather product that appears to be leather "should be disclosed," and goes on to say that products using terms such as bonded leather, shredded leather, pulverized leather, reconstituted leather or ground leather need to disclose the percentage of leather and non-leather materials."A material in an industry product that contains ground, pulverized, shredded, reconstituted or bonded leather and thus is not wholly from the hide of an animal should not be represented directly, or by implication, as being leather," reads the FTC’s Guides for Select Leather and Imitation Leather Products. Interestingly, the word "furniture" is nowhere to be found in the Guides, which were last reviewed by the commission in 2008. It says the regulations apply to suitcases, footwear, purses, wallets, and some 22 other products, but makes no mention of furniture. In its 2008 decision to continue using the Guides, the FTC, in fact, rejected a proposal by the trade group Leather Industries of America to specifically include upholstered furniture and automotive seating.
I'm surprised that one of the employees at the secret Mulan Leather underground laboratory hasn't leaked the secret recipe of this mystery material We need 60 minutes to investigate... Andy Rooney would be all over this...
I know you guys want it to be real but it simply isn’t. If you’re unwilling to do the simple test I described above, then just use simple logic. Why would any manufacturer use a term like “mulan?” Nappa describes a tanning process and is a leather industry term.
government guidelines are not binding by law. If you read the laws regarding fake leathers is says thing like “should” and “may.” There is no legal requirement to prove that your mulan leather is genuine leather unless you write specifically genuine leather.
Mulan cows are the tough cows kept outdoors while Nappa cows live a life of luxury indoors and away from climate changing winter elements. Mulan learher ksmthe mutts lf leather seating surfaces...tough and scrappy yet still lovable...
all kidding aside mulan leather is a bonded leather which is actually stronger and more wear resistent just not as soft as nappa. They grind up tje scrap pieces and bond it together thats why its cheaper and stronger.
ive never had any of my clothes complain...not my jeans, not my jacket...about laying against mulan leather versus nappa leather.
very few people would notice or care especially when they are holding on for dear light as you hammer the throttle... i have never caressed my seat covers with my hands in the garage somwhy bother...JMO
Mulan baby for me!
save the cash for gas and driving adventures.
Last edited by JerriVette; 10-18-2019 at 11:14 AM.
Whenever I read a discussion about the bonded leathers, I am instantly reminded of the scene from Grumpy Old Men when Max has the seat in his truck recovered in "genuine imitation leather".
Mulan would likely go into something like my truck or SUV, something I am going to use just about every day and half of those days I'll get into it sweaty, dirty, and dusty from working. My toy cars, I'll take Napa/Nappa thank you.
With some of the confusion on the Thread and supporting my #9 post, re Mulan etc thought I'd do some resach. This is what I found:
VINYL:
Vinyl costs a third of the price of genuine leather.
The feel and grain of vinyl has become so good that the average person can’t even tell the difference between the two.
Leather-simulated vinyl is also much easier to work with;
Bonded Leather - Mulan, Corinthian (etc)
Composition of this material varies considerably and is often a trade secret but in principle its manufactured from shredded or ground leather scraps mixed with bonding materials and extruded onto a fiber backing cloth. The material can then be dyed and embossed with a leather like texture
Depending on a manufacturer’s standard, the bonded material could contain as little as 20 percent real leather and still be classified as a leather product. Though, in most countries, anything less than 20 percent is classified as faux. No such classification in the US!
Federal Trade Commission guidelines say that any non-leather product that appears to be leather "should be disclosed," and goes on to say that products using terms such as bonded leather, shredded leather, pulverized leather, reconstituted leather or ground leather need to disclose the percentage of leather and non-leather materials. BUT FEW FOLLOW THE GUIDLINES!
Nappa Leather
Nappa is a generic term in the leather industry and there are no codified rules setting out precisely what it is.
It usually comes from young goat, calves, lambs and other animals.
Ultraleather®
A premium polyurethane fabric, with the look and feel of the finest glove leather, but is a more durable alternative.
Thought why I selected Ultraleather for my Street Rod versus “real leather” for the exact same price may be of interest!
Met a fellow who owns a similar product line to Ultraleather who said his production line is over a football field long!
My Street Rod is 20 years old and the interior shop had a backlog of 6 months. Gave them the car with no door panels etc. Seats were just foam covered from the manufacturer. It was a fixed price and was told it was the same price for leather or their preference, a new product at the time called Ultraleather. The owner was very creative and said he would have to "split the leather" to achieve what he was thinking about what he wanted to do. He is a real "artist" and I had seen a number of street rods at shows he had done. Went with his recommended Ultraleather. Recall when I said I would fabricate a door arm rest/door pull, he said don't bother I'll do that! As you can see he made it match he flames on my exterior! I was very surprised when I saw what he did on the headliner! Had no idea he was matching the exterior flames as well! The seats are as soft as the finniest woman's Italian glove leather! Still look prefect after 20 years! Yep synthetic can be better!
I know you guys want it to be real but it simply isn’t.
I am still awaiting any sort of evidence that "Mulan" leather is any sort of artificially manufactured product. But any sort of leather is a highly altered product, so where would you like to put the boundaries?
Last edited by Warp Factor; 10-18-2019 at 11:02 AM.
But any sort of leather is a highly altered product, so where would you like to put the boundaries?
I think there is a clear boundry. Real leather is made from solid pieces of tanned animal skin. Bonded leather is a synthetic consisting of a small percentage of leather scraps mixed with polyurethane. It's like the difference between solid hard wood vs particle board.
Last edited by Corvette#2; 10-18-2019 at 11:11 AM.
I think there is a clear boundry. Real leather is made from solid pieces of tanned animal skin. Bonded leather is a synthetic consisting of a small percentage of leather scraps mixed with polyurethane.
Agreed on your definition of "bonded" leather, but what is "mulan"? Have you shed any light on that?
I am still awaiting any sort of evidence that "Mulan" leather is any sort of artificially manufactured product. But any sort of leather is a highly altered product, so where would you like to put the boundaries?
do the sandpaper test I described above. Get a genuine piece of Mulan and sand into it. You’ll see very quickly it’s an engineered product. I used to keep a piece of it on my desk vs a piece of Nappa.
I think there is a clear boundry. Real leather is made from solid pieces of tanned animal skin. Bonded leather is a synthetic consisting of a small percentage of leather scraps mixed with polyurethane. It's like the difference between solid hard wood vs particle board.
Been an issue since I got my September 2013 build C7 Z51 3LT! Always looked and all you can find GM saying is the "seating surface" on a 3LT is napa leather.
Several years ago a fellow interviewing folks at Bowling Green said he got one to admit Mulan was ground up leather scraps mixed with binder with an embossed surface JUST like vinyl! Now have a 2LT Grand Sport and can't tell what is vinyl or Mulan!
At about the same time a fellow who worked for GM as an engineer and said they evaluated materials for the side bolsters and "leather" was not he best. So the only real leather is just as GM states the 3LT seating surface!
As you say some want to believe there is more real leather- there is NOT!
SIDEBAR
As I noted in my post #9. I have ordered 3LT Natural Dipped interior for my C8. All I can be sure is the "seating surface" is real Napa Leather and the other surfaces are "soft touch materials." That is what GM refers to other interior construction materials, either Mulan "faux leather" of vinyl.
One "concern" about Mulan is the dash. A number of posters had said and shown pictures of the C7 dash shrinking from around the vent area to a point it could not be repaired and had to be replaced (expensive.) No reports (or perhaps a few) with 1 & 2LT's with that issue. So assume the 3LT's used Mulan and the 1 & 2LT's are made of vinyl.
There have been "Doubting Thomases" since 2013. You'll find nothing that GM says about Mulan and the other BS exponded by folks selling genuine GM interior parts that only mentions a possible source for the name and why Mulan is good stuff! Perhaps someone like Ricado Montelbam will tell us like he did for the Corinthian Leather he advertsized "It's a name coined by their ad agecny!"
If you want to test this for yourself do what I used to do for my customers. Just buy a small cheap piece of mulan leather off eBay. Get a genuine gm part. Or for that matter Corinthian from Chrysler.
Uh oh! Were you once either a car salesman or a furniture salesman?
Sure, everyone needs to make a living somehow, but most of us have managed to be reasonably successful without reliance on deceiving our clients.
Last edited by Warp Factor; 10-18-2019 at 11:46 AM.
Uh oh! Were you once either a car salesman or a furniture salesman?
Sure, everyone needs to make a living somehow, but most of us have managed to be reasonably successful without reliance on deceiving our clients.
you guessed it. Car. I never had a major passion for furniture. You’d be amazed how many people stepped up to the Nappa after I showed them the scraps.
It's an amalgamation of low-grade leather used in GM's vehicles. Good stuff.
What the heck is "low grade leather?" May be good stuff but it's made from ground-up leather scraps mixed with a binder and put on a cloth back similar to vinyl.
At least all the leg, neck, tail etc hide from all those McDonalds (etc) cows doesn't have to go to a landfill!
Like baloney!
But speaking of chickens. If the no cows crowd gets their way we'll have only "chicken burgers" at McDonalds etc. Will the Mulan be made with "chicken skin?"
No, it's too expensive, we will only get the low grade ground up scraps that get bonded into what looks like real chicken skin, only with a heavier grain.
10-18-2019, 08:55 AM
We need 60 minutes to investigate... Andy Rooney would be all over this...
Mulan learher ksmthe mutts lf leather seating surfaces...tough and scrappy yet still lovable...
Been an issue since I got my September 2013 build C7 Z51 3LT! Always looked and all you can find GM saying is the "seating surface" on a 3LT is napa leather.
