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I agree with that, I don't hear a turbo whistle at all, but that said, not much is making sense. A 7.0 liter LS7 NA was 505 HP, even IF they could keep a 5.5 FPC in one piece, 600-650 sure sounds like a lot of output for that much smaller displacement. It's all give and take, if you have a high power, high rpm engine, it will have no low end. If it is big grunt low end motor, you lose it on top, it's just how it works. If they could get 650HP out of a 5.5 liter FPC at 8,000 rpm, at 2,500 rpm it wouldn't pull a sick ***** off a **** pot.
That's not exactly how it works (HP is just a function of torque and RPM) but I get what you're saying, and if say the target is a 600HP car at 9k RPM then you only need 350 lb/ft of torque. Cross-plane crank V8s have the advantage of being able to handle more torque but can't rev as high, where flat plane engines don't produce as much torque but don't need to since they rev to the moon. If say Chevy were able to get 650HP out of a 5.5L FPC V8 (very high end of specific output) it would still need to produce 426 lb/ft. of torque AT 8000 RPM (HP = Torque * RPM / 5252)
"Experience" is the sum total of both objective and subjective car attributes. From your good illustration above I can surmise it all comes down to "track connectivity" attributes for you but not everybody sees experience that way...and as Tadge and the C7 platform has proved, the Corvette experience is a large bandwidth experience that has to do more with comfort, aesthetics, practicality and power/torque than pure track grit.
Personally, the first thing I thought about when I viewed the clip was..."mhmm high pitch elevated noise to speed ratio...(cool maybe) but I wonder how it sounds in the cabin..."
To compare, I viewed an in cabin video for a 488 and 458 mountain driving...so I get it...I am aurally connected to all those high RPMs (medium torque/less push on the back) I can see the one hour stroll of fun...but then!? Is an engine in the ear the kind of experience I want all the time....? IMHO I think not... and this is just one aspect...
Same for the GT2RS and GT3RS analogies...great emotional talking and show cars... 30 minutes in them (maybe at the track) and you are "done".... that is why they are extremely low volume endeavors...
Keep in mind, opinions are like ********, everyone has them and they all stink.
Having driven (and still drive) those high RPM motors extensively, I can say for an absolute fact that it is hands down what I prefer in a sports car. A sports sedan? Maybe not so much, I want that low RPM grunt to take me to eye watering speeds with the minimal of effort and drama. But a sports car? Absolutely.
I strongly suspect the reason the GT3RS and GT2RS are "extremely low volume endeavors" is largely due to a hefty price tag and Porsche limiting production of them. I looked briefly into a GT2RS, nearly impossible to find a dealer that could sell you one and then that price tag (and of course, their markups) killed that idea. GT3RS wasn't that far from the same experience, nearly impossible to find. And I realized that a GT3RS would solely be a track car, so I started looking at GT3s... still might do that (depending on the new one's specs), it fits dual purpose alot better.
I'm not sure you'd hear turbos with the pace it was running so I don't think you can discount the possibility just yet. I still think it would be sweet to see a NA version for the grandsport, maybe with 550ish HP, then strap turbos on a different version of it for the 750hp rating.
Cross-plane crank V8s have the advantage of being able to handle more torque but can't rev as high, where flat plane engines don't produce as much torque but don't need to since they rev to the moon.
Whether a crank is cross-plane or flat-plane has nothing to do with torque, or capability of revving high. The potential advantage of a flat-plane comes from a reduction of rotational mass, allowing the engine to gain or lose rpms more quickly.
Thanks. Coming to think about it, makes sense and it jives with previous statements made on Z06s and ZR1s in the past.
I think as of today I am not waiting for a surprise anymore...
We're all just speculating, GM will do what GM does based on the business model, all of us have too much emotion involved, to them it's simply business. Part of the problem right now is how we live as Americans, we plant the seed Monday, water it Tuesday, and look for the fruit on Wednesday. The entire country has the attention span of a gnat. If we declare war the following we we are asking who is on Dancing with the Stars. Not ONE customer C8 has been built or delivered and we are looking for something better already and people are asking about the price of a used C8 when there has never been a new one yet.
The strike had nothing at all to do with the intro/announcement/etc of any future models of the car. Not even kind of.
It does when overall production is less for production of a given year and there is still demand for the car meaning the following year is completely sold too. If you're making every car you can already make, why would you introduce another car? You wait until demand dies down on the first one.
It does when overall production is less for production of a given year and there is still demand for the car meaning the following year is completely sold too. If you're making every car you can already make, why would you introduce another car? You wait until demand dies down on the first one.
Your statement might be true if we were talking about a model that was due right after the release of the previous one. We're not. There's going to be some lag between Stingray and ... whatever's next. And the strike had zero to do with that. Full stop.
Keep in mind, opinions are like ********, everyone has them and they all stink.
Having driven (and still drive) those high RPM motors extensively, I can say for an absolute fact that it is hands down what I prefer in a sports car. A sports sedan? Maybe not so much, I want that low RPM grunt to take me to eye watering speeds with the minimal of effort and drama. But a sports car? Absolutely.
I strongly suspect the reason the GT3RS and GT2RS are "extremely low volume endeavors" is largely due to a hefty price tag and Porsche limiting production of them. I looked briefly into a GT2RS, nearly impossible to find a dealer that could sell you one and then that price tag (and of course, their markups) killed that idea. GT3RS wasn't that far from the same experience, nearly impossible to find. And I realized that a GT3RS would solely be a track car, so I started looking at GT3s... still might do that (depending on the new one's specs), it fits dual purpose alot better.
And that sound.... and driving experience....
I understand what you are saying. My question is when were you looking as I see a lot of GT3RS' and GT2RS' for sale... When I went to look at a Weissach package silver GT3RS at The Porsche Exchange, they discounted the price to $219 from $249 immediately...
If say Chevy were able to get 650HP out of a 5.5L FPC V8 (very high end of specific output) it would still need to produce 426 lb/ft. of torque AT 8000 RPM (HP = Torque * RPM / 5252)
The big question is can they make a production motor THAT big with FPC that will stand up to durability and reliability tests? FPC motors have a destructive vibration that limits engine size. Doing it in a race car is one thing, who gives a **** about NVH, all they need is for it to make it to a finish line.
The C8.R is racing this year. How long does Chevy have to make the 500 homologated (or whatever the number is) C8 versions that have the FPC/DOHC that allows the C8.R to race IMSA (assuming the C8.R is FPC/DOHC)?
The C8.R is racing this year. How long does Chevy have to make the 500 homologated (or whatever the number is) C8 versions that have the FPC/DOHC that allows the C8.R to race IMSA (assuming the C8.R is FPC/DOHC)?
I was reading the rule book and I think its 300. But it doesn't specify a timeframe. I think it just says they have to be able to show the comparison car to an official upon request. And clearly based on the video they have a working version to show.
However, wouldn't it be something if there is a warehouse somewhere hidden with 300 Z06s just for the purpose of meeting the rulebook?
If GM is really going FPC high horsepower, NA engine then I think they should take as much time as they need for the Z06. Last thing you want is a bad launch and a bunch of engine replacements and oil issues (this is coming from someone who is driving a 2018 GT350).
Whether a crank is cross-plane or flat-plane has nothing to do with torque, or capability of revving high. The potential advantage of a flat-plane comes from a reduction of rotational mass, allowing the engine to gain or lose rpms more quickly.
Not exactly true, while yes the reduced rotational inertia of a flat-plane crank also allows it to rev more freely it revs higher because of the even firing order allowing the engine to breathe easier. Cross-plane crankshafts do naturally produce more low end torque because of the 90 degrees of crank rotation between firings vs. 180 degrees for the flat-plane crank.
Originally Posted by Phil1098
The big question is can they make a production motor THAT big with FPC that will stand up to durability and reliability tests? FPC motors have a destructive vibration that limits engine size. Doing it in a race car is one thing, who gives a **** about NVH, all they need is for it to make it to a finish line.
Yeah that's exactly the big question, of course anything is possible but at what sacrifices could a big FPC be made... the fact that the C8.R is running a 5.5L NA FPC should be a good indicator as to what the Z06 could be packing, that's a big motor when Ford has had some issues with the 5.2L they put in the GT350... that said IMSA doesn't always hold the race teams to the exact size of the road car for their race engines, so who knows
Your statement might be true if we were talking about a model that was due right after the release of the previous one. We're not. There's going to be some lag between Stingray and ... whatever's next. And the strike had zero to do with that. Full stop.
There wasn't much lag between the C7 base and Z06. Why would there be more with the C8? Demand is a bit higher but C7 demand was not weak by any means.
There wasn't much lag between the C7 base and Z06. Why would there be more with the C8? Demand is a bit higher but C7 demand was not weak by any means.
The last bit I'm going to post on this topic: don't look to previous patterns as guidance for the future. Just because it happened with C6 and C7 doesn't mean it's going to happen with C8. Folks expecting an announcement on the Z06 to come soon are likely to be very disappointed.
We're all just speculating, GM will do what GM does based on the business model, all of us have too much emotion involved, to them it's simply business. Part of the problem right now is how we live as Americans, we plant the seed Monday, water it Tuesday, and look for the fruit on Wednesday. The entire country has the attention span of a gnat. If we declare war the following we we are asking who is on Dancing with the Stars. Not ONE customer C8 has been built or delivered and we are looking for something better already and people are asking about the price of a used C8 when there has never been a new one yet.
i respectfully disagree. I have no desire to plant the seed on Monday. Instead, I will order from Amazon on Monday and expect a Tuesday delivery of my fruit.
The last bit I'm going to post on this topic: don't look to previous patterns as guidance for the future. Just because it happened with C6 and C7 doesn't mean it's going to happen with C8. Folks expecting an announcement on the Z06 to come soon are likely to be very disappointed.
Patience.
New platform, new roll out schedule. Even if this information isn't from your sources your logic is sound.
There are many reasons why the C7-Z06 had a fast introduction that don't apply to today.
The last bit I'm going to post on this topic: don't look to previous patterns as guidance for the future. Just because it happened with C6 and C7 doesn't mean it's going to happen with C8. Folks expecting an announcement on the Z06 to come soon are likely to be very disappointed.
Patience.
when it comes to cars I do believe I'm more patient than 99% of people on this forum. And I understand that you don't want to post more on the topic, but not only did you not offer any facts as to why the Gap to the ZO6 model would be any different you didn't even really offer any speculation on it either. Which is okay, I am not arguing that it will be introduced as a 2021 model but it is certainly within the realm of possibility as that is what happened the last generation. I agree that you can't look for a pattern and expect it to happen with certainty yet a historical pattern at least provides some rationale for speculation which is a bit more than offered in your post that I responded to.
if I was going to speculate on a longer delay for the Z06 I would combine the new architecture with a brand new engine and throw in very hot sales of the base model for a little additional seasoning. But I also would have guessed they might have waited a bit more before launching the convertible. They did not do that and we now have video of a higher performance model being tested on the street. I think it is possible for an Auto Show reveal in early 2021 or perhaps June 2021 at the Detroit Auto Show.
01-21-2020, 11:30 AM
