Corvette possibly in danger?
Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
Posts: 6,943
Likes: 1,490
From: New Jersey
GM is going where the market is going, BUT the market is schizophrenic as hell. People want Crossovers and SUV's with big power and lots of features.....but government regulators want electric cars with no emissions. Hence the $7500 first electric car buyer subsidy, and the mfg. subsidy for the first 200,000 electric cars produced. The big question is what happens to the electric car marketplace when the subsidies expire ? No one really knows. My guess is the electric car market will go the way of the Cruze.....20,000-50,000 units a year as a niche.
The other problem for electric cars is infrastructure. The Grid is just the start - who is going to put in all the supercharger stations required for 17 million cars ?? The tab of that bill is in $$$$B's and no private concern, whether GM, Ford or PG$L has the investment power to do it. I am not a believer in electric cars really catching on anytime soon unless and until there is a BIG public investment to make it happen. The third problem is batteries - the rare earth metals required to make them in the quantities required are getting more and more RARE. As a result the price of a Tesla battery is HIGHER today than it was four years ago. The learning curve slope is going in the wrong direction.
Does anyone REALLY think THIS government is equipped to make the required electric car infrastructure happen anytime soon ? I don't - these guys can't find their a$$ with both hands !! Hopefully GM hedges their bet with some efficient front IC-engine powered sedans and crossovers when this whole electric car technicolor dream melts down like icing on a cake in the rain.
The other problem for electric cars is infrastructure. The Grid is just the start - who is going to put in all the supercharger stations required for 17 million cars ?? The tab of that bill is in $$$$B's and no private concern, whether GM, Ford or PG$L has the investment power to do it. I am not a believer in electric cars really catching on anytime soon unless and until there is a BIG public investment to make it happen. The third problem is batteries - the rare earth metals required to make them in the quantities required are getting more and more RARE. As a result the price of a Tesla battery is HIGHER today than it was four years ago. The learning curve slope is going in the wrong direction.
Does anyone REALLY think THIS government is equipped to make the required electric car infrastructure happen anytime soon ? I don't - these guys can't find their a$$ with both hands !! Hopefully GM hedges their bet with some efficient front IC-engine powered sedans and crossovers when this whole electric car technicolor dream melts down like icing on a cake in the rain.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,704
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From: Annandale VA
Is GM supposed to make cars that nobody wants? Get real.
Team Owner
Joined: Sep 1999
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From: Springfield MO
Until then, enjoy this video of a C6 ZR1 doing 8.9 in the 1/4, years ago....not some future dream by Musk.
How about a Camaro that one could purchase from GM and take directly to the dragstrip and run in the 8's.
Last edited by JoesC5; Nov 27, 2018 at 07:25 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 11,905
Likes: 2,148
That's right up there with the moon landings being fake.
On the electrics - people who want electric cars - want a Tesla. It has the "chic", no matter how many issues the cars have, people are buying them to be socially conscious and they want to own "the name". The other makers coming forward with electrics are going to be surprised to see that there is little market for them apart from Tesla.
Pro
Joined: May 2013
Posts: 653
Likes: 36
Post up a video of Tesla roadster doing 8.9 in the 1/4.
Until then, enjoy this video of a C6 ZR1 doing 8.9 in the 1/4, years ago....not some future dream by Musk.
https://youtu.be/M-iRDbF6bsY
Until then, enjoy this video of a C6 ZR1 doing 8.9 in the 1/4, years ago....not some future dream by Musk.
https://youtu.be/M-iRDbF6bsY
of course I agree that the Vette actually did it and I get it.. I want a gas engine too, the sound and all....a guy just got into the 7's in a c7 I think..... no idea how steet-able a high 8 Vette is...
but look at a simple 4 door p 100d with only weight reduction (seat removal) and tuned out to max the motors.. runs 10.50. full bracket.. all day long.. super consistent..and is a full stock driving vehicle.. not even slicked .. just nitto dr's. so its not nuts to think a 2 door light weight tuned out big motors Tesla could run 8,90's.. if musk does release the roadster for 200k AND the ME doesn't have some hidden better looks under the camo .. its a very strong case to go electric
its the looks of the Tesla roadster that I dont care for so much...
Burning Brakes
Joined: Mar 2017
Posts: 854
Likes: 536
From: Florida
FCA has a great chassis under the Alfa Romeo Giulia sedan and it is expected to underpin the next Charger and Challenger.
Back to the first paragraph, GM is planning to close assembly plants that produce their slowest selling products. Sedan sales are half that of SUVs and as SUVs get cheaper and achieve better gas milage, they will continue to dominate sales. GM is going to take away resources from their least profitable sedans and shift greater funding towards their future Electric and Autonomous vehicles. This shift in resources means that multiple assembly plants running at just 60-70% of their production capacity will close indefinitely, possibly until there are new products ready to hit the market that can bring enough demand to keep the Assembly plants close to capacity.
If GM doesn’t stop the production of these slow selling cars and keeps assembly plants running at low volume, they would be throwing money down the drain and falling behind their competition in future product development. Future GM products will fill new shifts at GM factories and could fill the voids at the Assembly plants that GM plans to close next year.
It’s about business, not politics.
Last edited by Quinten33; Nov 27, 2018 at 07:31 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Oviedo Florida
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Yeah, politics has nothing to do with the plant closures. Anyone saying so has no idea how the Automotive industry operates.
FCA has a great chassis under the Alfa Romeo Giulia sedan and it is expected to underpin the next Charger and Challenger.
Back to the first paragraph, GM is planning to close assembly plants that produce their slowest selling products. Sedan sales are half that of SUVs and as SUVs get cheaper and achieve better gas milage, they will continue to dominate sales. GM is going to take away resources from their least profitable sedans and shift greater funding towards their future Electric and Autonomous vehicles. This shift in resources means that multiple assembly plants running at just 60-70% of their production capacity will close indefinitely, possibly until there are new products ready to hit the market that can bring enough demand to keep the Assembly plants close to capacity.
If GM doesn’t stop the production of these slow selling cars and keeps assembly plants running at low volume, they would be throwing money down the drain and falling behind their competition in future product development. Future GM products will fill new shifts at GM factories and could fill the voids at the Assembly plants that GM plans to close next year.
It’s about business, not politics.
car in the US (except the tires) Now it's the world car. Nationalist's is a dirty word, but at least as far as car maker's are concerned ; there was much better quality control years ago., Now a part for a modern car made in Pakistan breaks for lack of quality control.
Build the entire car in the US and you will have a much better car and a better US economy.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,704
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From: Annandale VA
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Le Mans Master
Joined: Aug 2017
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From: New Jersey
You ever drive any other car built in the 60s and 70s? Everything is better now to an extent. Technology is something you can't cross compare because it is always improving. For the time period it was good. Hell most of that crap is still on the roads in 3rd world countries. Those were built as investments, vehicles now are considered disposable and are designed on a life cycle as is everything else. Engineered to fail, we get taught to work it in, the materials that went down on roads 30 years ago was technically better than what I deal with at work now but the roads last longer. We just understand and improved the process so they technically last longer... vinyl used to last decades now it only lasts 5-10 years tops... leather too. Not everything becomes better as time goes on. I've seen it with my own eyes and deal with that crap everyday. Just my 2 cents though.
Race Director
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 10,084
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From: CA
Corvette very well may be its own brand soon- GM has been moving in that direction for years with removing Chevy (read: cheap car brand) badging from Corvettes. Once Corvette becomes its own brand there may be several models of Corvette. It makes sense because "Chevy" cheapens the cachet of the Corvette branding.
Safety Car
Joined: Dec 2003
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From: USA
In addition to my Z06 I have 4 other "premium brand" cars. The 'Vette is on par quality-wise with any of my other cars so I don't know what you're inferring about the current quality level.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Oviedo Florida
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Check the millions of cars that are called back each year for quality control problems..
Read the Wall Street Journal, once in a while and you will see the recalls ( not all of them but a lot).
Good luck.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,704
Likes: 985
From: Annandale VA
Learn more about auto history. The manufactures were building cars long before you were born.
Check the millions of cars that are called back each year for quality control problems..
Read the Wall Street Journal, once in a while and you will see the recalls ( not all of them but a lot).
Good luck.
Check the millions of cars that are called back each year for quality control problems..
Read the Wall Street Journal, once in a while and you will see the recalls ( not all of them but a lot).
Good luck.
Team Owner
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 25,583
Likes: 16,942
Learn more about auto history. The manufactures were building cars long before you were born.
Check the millions of cars that are called back each year for quality control problems..
Read the Wall Street Journal, once in a while and you will see the recalls ( not all of them but a lot).
Good luck.
Check the millions of cars that are called back each year for quality control problems..
Read the Wall Street Journal, once in a while and you will see the recalls ( not all of them but a lot).
Good luck.
EDIT: Holy crap, I can't believe I'm agreeing w/ PCM on something. That's a first.
Last edited by Foosh; Nov 28, 2018 at 10:19 AM. Reason: Quote added due to intervening post.
Team Owner
Joined: May 2005
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From: NY
St. Jude Donor '26
GM is not in a crisis. They're realigning the company's headcount and production to keep up with customer demands and to insulate themselves from a predicted recession. It sucks for the employees involved, but this is a good thing and it's the kind of forward thinking old GM simply wasn't capable of.
They're demonstrating good foresight finally. In the past they had none. That's what got them into trouble, they're getting a head of it this time. Sucks for the employees, but it's a sound corporate move.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Feb 2007
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From: Oviedo Florida
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Uh, you're WAY off target. More recalls are a direct result of the evolution of Gov policy becoming much stricter with regard to auto safety standards. Once upon a time, there were no recalls because they weren't mandated. Over time, recall regulatory policy has gotten stricter, thus many more recalls.
EDIT: Holy crap, I can't believe I'm agreeing w/ PCM on something. That's a first.
EDIT: Holy crap, I can't believe I'm agreeing w/ PCM on something. That's a first.
issues with cars before computers and the varies electronic parts.Look at the reasons for recalls,; very few mechanical issues (bad engines etc) .. Poor quality control is the major problem..
But I am beating a dead horse. If you believe that cars are better now , I am glad your happy. Car's are built today for people who can't drive.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,704
Likes: 985
From: Annandale VA
True that! Back in the day with worthless suspensions and steering, bad tires, no ABS, stability control or traction control, you really had to be a great driver to keep it on the road. With Super Cruise, the car drives itself.