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yeah auto sales number have been going and trending down for awhile now. They are launching into a soft market, one that may not improve for some time. It'll sell of course, but I dont see any great historic like sales numbers coming.
In terms of the question posed in this thread it doesn't matter, the people who both can afford a Corvette and refuse to buy anything that isn't mid engine sports car is going to populate a very short list and will be near meaningless in terms of new conquest buyers. I don't really see a new group of buyers that can make up for a price increase that pushes out their core buyers; that being old men with some spare cash/income.In order for sales to go up you need to hold the line on pricing and then grab new buyers, increase the pricing and new buyers have to overcome those lost. I don't see that happening which is up front a gut call, I'm no expert.
Edit... Also, as said above the economy only seems good to those on the right side of it, to a whole lot of people it seems just the opposite. There are right now BTW a record number of cars sitting unsold in the US, beating the previous record set in 2008 right BEFORE things went to hell. I'm not saying the same thing looms in front of us, who knows how long they can hold things up by printing money?
If the economy keeps humming along the new C8 should be fine its first year. I think it fits in a unique price point especially being a mid-engine sports car with a V8 engine. Sports car sales are flat to down year over year unless you move into the higher supercars north of 200k. I think GM realized they hit the performance threshold of the FE and to gain additional buyers and performance go after an area that is open in the sports car segment A ME with a V8 starting at 62k and below 150k. This gives GM a very compelling competitive advantage over its competitors. They will gain new buyers and keep most of their current loyal buyers.
Example:
Porsche Cayman 4 cylinder 57k S 69k Box 59k S 71k then GTS 80k GT4 100k plus
NSX with V6 starts at 159k can be had new around 130. Car not selling NSX faithful not happy with it.
Audi R8 V10 rear wheel drive limited to 1000 units starts at 150k and all-wheel goes as high as 220k
Mclaren 570 v8 turbo starts at 190+ goes well past 250
Ferrari v8 is 200k plus
Lamborghini V10 200k plus
Alfa 4C 4 cylinder starts at 65k coupe stopped production only makes convertible will be done end of year.
Lotus Evora 400 V6 supercharged 95k plus can be had cheaper, still hard to find not many made per year.
My point is a buyer did not have a ME” available to them with a V8 from a manufacturer under 100k and definitely not at the price we all expect the new C8 to come in at..
Its a true bargain no matter how many people like it or dislike it....
All of those cars are produced in very small volume in North America compared to a Corvette and in many cases the badge will sell the car more than the car (the prestige of owning an exotic European car).
GM wants to sell 30-40K Corvettes a year, and if the base model is $65K or so and a Z06 base price will likely be in the $90-95K range easy (before options) there will only be so many buyers who can handle that type of payment. Housing and medical prices have skyrocketed for many people in recent years, paying $1000-2000 car payments a month will be interesting.
I get it GM, greed is good. Tis cheaper to build a mid-engine sports car and bask in the glow of Ferrari and Lambo, than it is to develop 4 wheel steering and AWD systems to make a front engined car handle better.
New sells: 136,840 Fiero buyers in the first year alone. 370,168 in five years. GM may be missing a great opportunity with only 40k estimates for the C8. But then GM cut the mid-engine sportscar for 35 years.
The first time GM mid-engined sports cars appeared: I kept my front engined V8-powered TR8, only 3 years old then, and bought a 1985 Silverado. Chevy still won my money.
Today, 35 years on, I've had 2 more pickups, 4 off-road vehicles, a sedan, a BEV, and an SUV. ALL coulda bought from Chevy. PLUS 6 new corvettes, just since 2005.
But Chevy only got the Corvette money. I CAN TOLERATE: shoddy workmanship, peeling paint, EPA-mandated destruction of my automatic transmission through CAFE gizmos on my car, bent wheels, carbon buildup on the back of my engine's valves, reduced power warning messages, hydraulic leaks on my convertibles piping, etc etc etc, WHEN CHEVROLET HAS A PRODUCT I WANT.
"THIS TIME IT IS DIFFERENT" Yes, it is. I'm keeping my front engined V8 Sports Car, but i found a better pickup truck than GM offers years ago.
Built for display, not to hide away!
Last edited by SilverGhost; Jul 13, 2019 at 05:13 PM.
What I am REALLY interested in is what is the Production Capacity of the new facilities at BG?
For me, that is a much more interesting question...
Give the C5, 6, and 7 all had production numbers in the low 30k’s per year, I would speculate It’s not going to change much.
I they wanted to increase capacity by extending line hours and such, that would likely require labor union contract renegotiation...which I would also guess would be much more difficult to maintain the secrecy thereof.....
1. Fool me once..... - 2005 THEN 2006/7 and boom 2008... start of the "way better" C6s. Same could be said for C7... 14..15 then front cameras - android auto apple carplay etc.
this time...patience will be a virtue....
2. no way in hell... i trust this company to put forth a 911 ish type car which is built like a tank - refined over 50 years basically - and bulletproof. Not in the first year let alone first gen.
I ordered a 19 Z06 just the way i want it loaded with all options to hold me over until year 4 or 5 or more of C8. GM is not giving me a rushed 1 of 35k C8s to make money - so i can live in the shop or be disgusted by the shortcuts and craftmanship of all these employees learning on the fly how to assembke a mid engine car... its going to be comical to read the threads and posts of owner's complaining till no end about everything and others saying "that's why i wouldn't buy a first year etc etc..."
Thw C8Z will be out around 2022 according to the greatest corvette guy around. And i fully intend on waiting for at LEAST a full year of that car's durability in an owner's hands before i spend another 100k plus. Nobodys Guinea pig here friend. Lol
Rather have the best of the last than the worst of the first.
Give the C5, 6, and 7 all had production numbers in the low 30k’s per year, I would speculate It’s not going to change much.
I they wanted to increase capacity by extending line hours and such, that would likely require labor union contract renegotiation...which I would also guess would be much more difficult to maintain the secrecy thereof.....
My interest is WHY did GM feel it was necessary to curtail BG tours for a year and a half?
That's a very long time to outfit an old plant for the production of a new generation of a current model.
WHY on earth did it take so long?
I believe the answer to THAT question will be very interesting indeed.
VERY good read! Reminds me of the old statement from Popeye, "I'll gladly pay you Tuesday for a Hamburger today"
HC costs are absolutely insane, as are living expenses. I rent property and I have to charge more to keep up with costs, and shoot me still make a profit, specifically taxes and property insurance.
The "divide" is really ridiculous. Nothing like when I was a kid, and I'm only in my 40's. Anyway - very good! Thank you!
They might have a request for 30,000+ the first year but the issue is they may not be able to fill the request. Remember it's most likely going to be a shorter production year since they are not starting the build until close to end of this year and assuming they go back to there normal production dates with 2021's being built next summer. Also with new models they tend to start slow and then ramp up the production line. Also wouldn't be surprised to see some QA issues along the way as well.
Didn't they expand Bowling Green, so it's capacity is much higher?
The C8 will attract guys like me that only bought mid engine cars when we could finally afford them...I'm actually excited to buy an America mussel/sport car that's finally built right for the track...and dont give me the C7 beat the Ford GT or 911 crap let me see you or I put those numbers up without a support team and deep pockets...not gonna happen! With this car I'm hopping it beats my present car in stock metal after I throw the interior away...if so I'll gladly dish out the cash for the Z06! Its exciting times for mid engine enthusiasts! F'n finally! Just don't let us down GM or this could be your perverable nail....
Not sure I get your point. Those other cars had the same support. So in, like-to-like comparisons, the C7 indeed DOES beat those cars. Whether team-supported on a track, or driven by amateurs on the street.
In the investment business, the above phrase is considered the kiss of death. As it turns out, it is hardly ever different, because people don’t change much over time. And such is likely for the intro of the C8 when comparing it to acceptance/rejection of previous generation progressions. I think the C8 will have its share of altar (or alter, ha) worshippers and haters alike, but in the end GM will probably manage to sell 30k plus of the first year base model Stingray IMO. Then we’ll see the Z06 18 months or so after and a ZR1 a year or two after that IMO.
It may be the kiss of death, but not long ago the investment community was calling it, "We live in a new paragdigm where there won't be downturns and recession." 1,999 economists out of 2,000 went along with that, too. But you're right; it's hardly ever different.
If the BG production year stays the same as most years, it's going to end sometime in June, 2020 and it's been said the beginning is in Dec., 2019. If it's 7 full mos. of production, that's 4285 a month and on a 6-day work week that's 170 cars per day. On a brand new trans, chassis, cooling system, maybe engine, etc. Does GM want to push them out the door at that rate? Hmmm.... just asking the question.
It may be the kiss of death, but not long ago the investment community was calling it, "We live in a new paragdigm where there won't be downturns and recession." 1,999 economists out of 2,000 went along with that, too. But you're right; it's hardly ever different.
If the BG production year stays the same as most years, it's going to end sometime in June, 2020 and it's been said the beginning is in Dec., 2019. If it's 7 full mos. of production, that's 4285 a month and on a 6-day work week that's 170 cars per day. On a brand new trans, chassis, cooling system, maybe engine, etc. Does GM want to push them out the door at that rate? Hmmm.... just asking the question.
Edit: as redc7z said above mine....
There will always be economic downturns. The longer they are artificially postponed (like now) with rigged interest rates and unsustainable borrowing, the worse the eventual hangover will be IMO. Keep stocked up on aspirin for the next one.
