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Old Mar 4, 2020 | 05:28 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by The Big Guy
Bose in my 2020 Cadillac C6 Premium Luxury is called "Panaray ". It has 42 speakers. The sound is fantastic. You are wrong. Bose is fine equipment.
Unfortunately you are eating up Bose's marketing... that is exactly what is wrong with Bose. They haven't changed a thing about their speakers since the 60's and their entire shtick is to just point low quality speakers in a bunch of directions to get "room fill" which is a terrible sound. If you don't believe what I am saying just do a quick search on your favorite search engine, you can find everything you need.

That being said, these are cars and we don't need audiophile systems, we just need a decent sounding system for when you aren't listening to the engine and exhaust noise.
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Old Mar 4, 2020 | 05:28 PM
  #42  
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Originally Posted by JadeRaven
Still no data as of March 2020 but the performance system is definitely going to weigh slightly more as there is slightly more equipment. However it's likely just a few pounds at most in total, which is negligible.

The biggest weight saving choice by far would be 1LT vs a 2LT or 3LT car, especially a 2LT of 3LT with additional options. And on a 1LT the 14 speaker performance system is not an option.
.......or many could lose a few pounds personally and enjoy a loaded car. Interested to know how many professional drivers we have on this forum that make their living racing. I always get a kick hearing people wanting to save a few pounds on their car when they can’t extract 70% of what the car can deliver on their best day. Simply hilarious.
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Old Mar 6, 2020 | 04:40 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by thill444
More speakers does not equal better sound in a small cabin. That is a fallacy and used more for marketing and to charge people more.
I would expect the described additional speakers and additional power to improve the overall quality. It might be marginal but I think it will definitely be a noticeable improvement.

Time will tell.
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Old May 19, 2020 | 06:14 AM
  #44  
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"No highs. No lows. Must be Bose."

I work with audio mixers and my job involves listening to their mixes played back at reference. Meaning we have perfect EQ, speaker placement, room size, drivers matched to amps, sound deadening, etc. Now some of our rooms have 64 speakers and others as few as 16. That is 64 individual cabinets which can contain 2 or 3 drivers in each. So, probably over 100+ drivers in our large room. If you are listening to stereo and are sitting relatively close (near field), you can get away with two speakers which is 4 drivers (tweeter + mid-driver). You'll be lacking on the bottom end, but with the right speakers the clarity and sound stage can be near perfect and sound amazing. Add a 8" sub and that is all you need for a listening room. We mostly have Meyer speakers but also use JBL which our engineers lovingly refer to as Junky But Loud. They are actually not that bad.

The only reason for more speakers is room size or positional audio like ATMOS and surround sound or packaging limitations such as a car. Since you need a certain cabinet size for the woofer to do it's thing it's just easier in a car to add more smaller drivers which can work if they are properly placed, amplified, and of good quality. Fourteen speakers don't have to work as hard as say four, but again, you are relying heavily on the dsp programming and speaker placement. You have speakers right next to your ear, at your feet, behind you, bouncing off the glass of the windshield, etc., all trying to just play back good old fashioned 2ch stereo! Talk about an audio engineer's EQ nightmare.

So that brings me to the Bose system. I have not heard it personally in the C8, but I do have a C7 and can say without a doubt it is sub-par. It is way too bass heavy at low volume and distorts with anything approaching midway. The highs are ok but the mids are muddy. Is it adequate? I guess. Is it premium? No. My Chevy Volt standard no-name system sounds better. Honestly. Maybe it has to do with a better insulated cabin. Maybe because the car is super quiet being electric. Maybe it's just because Bose just designed a shitty system. I usually just turn it off anyway and listen to the exhaust in track mode.

Now in the C8 it looks like they tried. I think Bose gets a bad wrap and some of their consumer products actually sound pretty good for their intended purpose. Their TV soundbars are pretty good as are their bluetooth speakers and headphones. I wouldn't call them audiophile grade, but are pleasant to listen to. I had a Cadillac STS w/Bose and it was one of the best sounding factory systems I have ever heard. A sign of a good system is turning off all the enhanced effects and leaving the EQ flat and having it still sound great which it did. A friend of mine has a Kia Stinger GT w/Harmon Kardon and it sounds amazing, maybe better than my Cadillac did? My old Challenger had a 18-speaker Harmon Kardon system and it sounded like crap. Worst $1600 upgrade ever. My Ram 1500 factory 6-speaker system was mediocre at best. I swapped all to JBL with factory radio/amp and now sounds so much better.

My point to all this is that usually audio in cars are an afterthought and speakers are just placed where they fit and quality, no matter what brand is stamped on it, depends upon what is left of the budget. But if an audio system is designed from the beginning to integrate with the car design, pretty much anything can sound good, even Bose.
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Old May 19, 2020 | 09:06 AM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Daemek
Not sure I want to spend 5000 extra or whatever it is for the 2LT. My currently C7 is also a 1LT.. wife budget -cough-
I had a 2014 C7 1LT. I was ok with it spent 30k after market stuff. Now I’m going to the C8 2LT. Myself I found the money. You should talk to your wife more and see if there’s anyway you can get to a 2LT. Just my opinion.
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Old May 19, 2020 | 09:21 AM
  #46  
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What is this mod?

Originally Posted by FringbirdAloha
Hear that bass? It kicks and turns and curls up in your belly, makes you wanna freaky-deaky, right? If you get this unit as it is, it won't sound like this without the modification. And we do that for a small price.
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Old May 19, 2020 | 11:48 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by R3TRO
"No highs. No lows. Must be Bose."

I work with audio mixers and my job involves listening to their mixes played back at reference. Meaning we have perfect EQ, speaker placement, room size, drivers matched to amps, sound deadening, etc. Now some of our rooms have 64 speakers and others as few as 16. That is 64 individual cabinets which can contain 2 or 3 drivers in each. So, probably over 100+ drivers in our large room. If you are listening to stereo and are sitting relatively close (near field), you can get away with two speakers which is 4 drivers (tweeter + mid-driver). You'll be lacking on the bottom end, but with the right speakers the clarity and sound stage can be near perfect and sound amazing. Add a 8" sub and that is all you need for a listening room. We mostly have Meyer speakers but also use JBL which our engineers lovingly refer to as Junky But Loud. They are actually not that bad.

The only reason for more speakers is room size or positional audio like ATMOS and surround sound or packaging limitations such as a car. Since you need a certain cabinet size for the woofer to do it's thing it's just easier in a car to add more smaller drivers which can work if they are properly placed, amplified, and of good quality. Fourteen speakers don't have to work as hard as say four, but again, you are relying heavily on the dsp programming and speaker placement. You have speakers right next to your ear, at your feet, behind you, bouncing off the glass of the windshield, etc., all trying to just play back good old fashioned 2ch stereo! Talk about an audio engineer's EQ nightmare.

So that brings me to the Bose system. I have not heard it personally in the C8, but I do have a C7 and can say without a doubt it is sub-par. It is way too bass heavy at low volume and distorts with anything approaching midway. The highs are ok but the mids are muddy. Is it adequate? I guess. Is it premium? No. My Chevy Volt standard no-name system sounds better. Honestly. Maybe it has to do with a better insulated cabin. Maybe because the car is super quiet being electric. Maybe it's just because Bose just designed a shitty system. I usually just turn it off anyway and listen to the exhaust in track mode.

Now in the C8 it looks like they tried. I think Bose gets a bad wrap and some of their consumer products actually sound pretty good for their intended purpose. Their TV soundbars are pretty good as are their bluetooth speakers and headphones. I wouldn't call them audiophile grade, but are pleasant to listen to. I had a Cadillac STS w/Bose and it was one of the best sounding factory systems I have ever heard. A sign of a good system is turning off all the enhanced effects and leaving the EQ flat and having it still sound great which it did. A friend of mine has a Kia Stinger GT w/Harmon Kardon and it sounds amazing, maybe better than my Cadillac did? My old Challenger had a 18-speaker Harmon Kardon system and it sounded like crap. Worst $1600 upgrade ever. My Ram 1500 factory 6-speaker system was mediocre at best. I swapped all to JBL with factory radio/amp and now sounds so much better.

My point to all this is that usually audio in cars are an afterthought and speakers are just placed where they fit and quality, no matter what brand is stamped on it, depends upon what is left of the budget. But if an audio system is designed from the beginning to integrate with the car design, pretty much anything can sound good, even Bose.
A lot of good stuff in here, but a few thoughts. Bose gets a bad rap and some of the consumer products are good and some are bad. in the Corvette it is overhyped and slightly subpar. my main concern with some of the information presented above is that it is presented as fact but much of it is opinion. Such as "perfect EQ" and "too bass heavy". There is no such thing as perfect EQ, or too much bass, or too much treble. The closest we ever get to fact on these points is based upon what the artist intended their music to sound like. And quite frankly we don't get that on the album. The closest we get to that is at a concert when they're playing for the audience. An album is designed to be neutral across many different platforms so that it sounds good no matter where it's played, whereas a concert theoretically is closer to what the artist wants you to hear. Almost always you'll find more bass at a concert than on an album. But that won't make an audiophile happy. at the end of the day if you like it that's the right way to listen to it. But the main problem in Corvette Bose systems is they're not capable of making many of their listeners happy.
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Old May 20, 2020 | 08:00 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by Atari_Prime
There is no such thing as perfect EQ, or too much bass, or too much treble. The closest we ever get to fact on these points is based upon what the artist intended their music to sound like. And quite frankly we don't get that on the album.
Perfect EQ is playing pink noise and a tone generator through your speaker system at reference volume (about 85db) and having the waveform perfectly flat with a little roll off at both ends of the spectrum. The idea is no matter what mix room you walk into, it won't matter what kind of speakers, room size, or equipment being used, so as long as the EQ is to reference, your mix will always sound as intended if played back on a reference system. Every album is mixed like this so the artist/producer/sound engineer can all agree upon what they want it to sound like. So if you can emulate this at home or in your car through quality speakers and EQ, you are in fact hearing it like intended.

Problem with a car is usually you have little control of the EQ as there is bass/mid/treble settings only. So now you are relying on how well the system is designed and EQ'd by the audio engineers. I suspect in many cars there is zero EQ and you only hear the characteristics of the speakers their interaction with the car cabin. Consumers tend to respond well to bass and think if it is loud and they can feel it then it is a good system. Beats by Dre uses this concept well. Often times it is just distorted because the drivers and amplification just are not up to the task. Mids are generally ok since 1k Hz is not difficult for a speaker to reproduce unless the same driver is also trying to produce bass. Highs tend to be lacking because you need a dedicated tweeter and even when there is one the placement is usually too low or on the dash bouncing off the windshield.

I will agree that live to me sounds best if you are close enough to the stage, but I'd argue it's not because that's how the artist intended it to sound. In reality big open spaces like concerts is impossible to EQ correctly, you just have to get close. I believe the good sound comes from the artist not being perfect like in a studio and putting more character and personality into the performance making it a more personal listening experience. Technically the album is perfect but the live performance is flawed making it in my opinion more human and relatable.

This is my big problem with everything going digital. It is too perfect thus boring. That is why vinyl is making a big comeback and 35mm film. Analog gives character warmth where digital can sound cold. It's funny how people use filters now to simulate analog formats for various media but I can see I am getting way off topic!
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Old May 20, 2020 | 09:03 AM
  #49  
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I chuckle at all the audiophile comments! My 2014 Z51 and my current Grand Sport have so much tire and road noise it's foolish to talk about symphony hall sound quality!

I have my Bose sound system playing 99% of the time at a volume to drown out the road noise! It's fine and need bass to help. BUT I did find that 10 to 15% of the >1000 songs I have playing in shuffle mode as soon as I start the car were too boomy! Someone found a simple solution that I used on my 2014 and now my Grand Sport.

Background
Have made speaker systems for my DD's in 60 years of driving! For my S-10 found a way to fit a subwoofer and amp in the cab. It included a remote **** to adjust the bass level to fit the song! A poster found a way to do that with the C7 Bose system! So instead of having to lower the song volume with the ~15% with boomy bass (that defeated my drown-out-road-noise objective) I now have three preset buttons with 3 bass levels. Actually can be any setting for balance, sound treble/bass levels. If interested here is a How To PDF: http://netwelding.com/Boomy_Bass.pdf Hope the C8 Bose can be set the same way.


My S-10 had a remote subwoofer amp adjustment **** I put on my center console to adjust the bass level to fit the song playing.




Last edited by JerryU; May 20, 2020 at 09:20 AM.
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Old May 21, 2020 | 09:37 PM
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Very interesting. What is a "Meat Loaf"?
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Old May 21, 2020 | 09:45 PM
  #51  
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First, combine 1/2 lb each of ground chuck, ground pork and ground veal. Next add 2 eggs...
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Old May 21, 2020 | 11:42 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by CanAm Ken
Very interesting. What is a "Meat Loaf"?
Are you serious? A rock singer.
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Old May 22, 2020 | 12:39 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by CanAm Ken
Very interesting. What is a "Meat Loaf"?
We usually use beef and some ground turkey, chopped onions etc, etc

Hmm, and I'm 77! Perhaps you'd prefer my Janis Joplin songs (have every album she made and a private jam session.) How about Heart and Stevie Nicks (think I have all their albums.) Have lots of Oldies and a few Elvis Presley and even some "Old Blue Eyes" on my Thumb drive! Fun to see what comes up next in shuffle mode that starts when I start the car. Oh yea, when "Walk Don't Run" comes up I drive faster!

Last edited by JerryU; May 22, 2020 at 12:52 AM.
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Old May 22, 2020 | 10:44 AM
  #54  
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Yep....... 'just kidding. I've been a fan of Marvin Lee Aday since I saw Rocky Horror....... His voice is unmatched, especially when he's paired with Patti Russo.

But I'm more of a Beach Boys, Jan and Dean, Ripcords, etc, etc, etc fan.
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Old May 22, 2020 | 11:52 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by CanAm Ken
Very interesting. What is a "Meat Loaf"?
You've never heard the song "Paradise by the Dashboard Light"?

Edit: Never mind, I just saw your above post.

Last edited by RKCRLR; May 22, 2020 at 11:54 AM.
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Old May 22, 2020 | 11:55 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by RKCRLR
You've never heard the song "Paradise by the Dashboard Light"?

Edit: Never mind, I just saw your above post.
One of the best songs ever!!!!!!!!
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Old May 22, 2020 | 11:56 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by JerryU
We usually use beef and some ground turkey, chopped onions etc, etc

Hmm, and I'm 77! Perhaps you'd prefer my Janis Joplin songs (have every album she made and a private jam session.) How about Heart and Stevie Nicks (think I have all their albums.) Have lots of Oldies and a few Elvis Presley and even some "Old Blue Eyes" on my Thumb drive! Fun to see what comes up next in shuffle mode that starts when I start the car. Oh yea, when "Walk Don't Run" comes up I drive faster!
Don't forget Johnny Cash. Ring of Fire!
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Old May 22, 2020 | 12:32 PM
  #58  
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I had a ring of fire. The doctor was able to cure it, with antibiotics
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Old May 22, 2020 | 12:49 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by Sprayy
What is this mod?
He's talking about the TK-421 mod!
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Old May 22, 2020 | 12:58 PM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by CanAm Ken
I had a ring of fire. The doctor was able to cure it, with antibiotics
Just a little too much information there.
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