Deposit refund?
Drifting
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 1,578
Likes: 550
From: Florida
After seeing a few of the color combos chosen on this forum, I would not blame the dealer for not refunding the deposit. Too much missing info to blame anybody here. No reason the buyer cannot bring another party to the table to buy the car
Advanced
Joined: Apr 2019
Posts: 94
Likes: 38
From: Northern NJ
Refund policies are set by the dealer, not GM. The dealer is the one selling the car and a reputable dealer should be up front about when the deposit becomes non-refundable. That may be when they place the order or when it hits a certain status. Whatever it is, it depends on the dealers terms, not GM's policies.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 8,055
Likes: 2,694
From: New Mexico
2018 C6 of Year Finalist
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 2,528
Likes: 1,567
I don't have a stake in this but there is a lot of bad information that floats around here that is outside the scope of those posting it. There has been no poster yet who can show the law referred to requiring a dealer to return a deposit...IN ANY STATE. Why would a dealer take a deposit if they knew they would have to return it at any time? You would be better off to simply order the cars and then sell it to the first person with a check when it comes in.
Anybody who has ever signed a buyer's order in a dealership has agreed to a number of things most of which they never bothered to read. I have operated in a number of states and have kept deposits in all of them when I was holding a properly executed buyer's order which is a legal document enforceable in court
None of us know what the process was for the cancelled deal. The consumer may have well walked in or sent in a check and faded from sight. On the other hand, that person may have spent hours quizzing anyone who would talk to him about every scenario known to man about the car, the order, and a million other scenarios found on this forum. He may well have been thoroughly informed that you make the deposit and either take the car or lose the money. The salesman may have well earned the deposit long ago.
I would defy anyone to prove they have never made a mistake in their job. The salesman may or may not have made the statement about GM policy, may or may not have misunderstood and said what he said, or possibly never said any such thing but was misunderstood himself. The fact is it has absolutely nothing to do with the sales situation as it stands now. It is the dealer's car to sell and the buyer's car to buy.
Anybody who has ever signed a buyer's order in a dealership has agreed to a number of things most of which they never bothered to read. I have operated in a number of states and have kept deposits in all of them when I was holding a properly executed buyer's order which is a legal document enforceable in court
None of us know what the process was for the cancelled deal. The consumer may have well walked in or sent in a check and faded from sight. On the other hand, that person may have spent hours quizzing anyone who would talk to him about every scenario known to man about the car, the order, and a million other scenarios found on this forum. He may well have been thoroughly informed that you make the deposit and either take the car or lose the money. The salesman may have well earned the deposit long ago.
I would defy anyone to prove they have never made a mistake in their job. The salesman may or may not have made the statement about GM policy, may or may not have misunderstood and said what he said, or possibly never said any such thing but was misunderstood himself. The fact is it has absolutely nothing to do with the sales situation as it stands now. It is the dealer's car to sell and the buyer's car to buy.
Yes, no one knows the particulars of this situation and if the buyer signed paperwork stipulating the deposit is non-refundable in any and all circumstances, then yes, not only would they likely be out of luck (although some state laws even point question to that), they'd have to be galactically stupid. You toss out claims others are posting "outside their scope", but then you commit the same supposed act. What matters is what the purchase order (or contract) states, not whether someone made a "mistake". If there is no definition of the disposition of a deposit, many states favor the buyer, unless the seller can prove an argument for retaining some or all of it as "liquidated damages". The burden for that in most states has to be demonstrable to the court, not just assertion.
Last edited by Panfish; Feb 14, 2020 at 02:15 PM.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 12,866
Likes: 10,274
From: Garden Valley CA
"Fail to refund any purchase money, including purchase deposits, upon demand by a consumer at any time prior to the consumers signing of a vehicle purchase agreement with a selling dealer and taking delivery of the vehicle described in the brokering agreement."
https://california.public.law/codes/..._section_11736
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 2,506
ANYONE insinuating a dealer can keep deposits, including if THEY are the party that fails to deliver the product agreed upon which was the point of the deposit is blowing smoke. If that were the case, ALL dealers (or businesses for that matter) could just collect money for items they had no intention of selling. Sorry, gotta wave a MAJOR B.S. flag on this one. Yes, no one knows the particulars of this situation and if the buyer signed paperwork stipulating the deposit is non-refundable in any and all circumstances, then yes, not only would they likely be out of luck (although some state laws even point question to that), they'd have to be galactically stupid. You toss out claims others are posting "outside their scope", but then you commit the same supposed act. What matters is what the purchase order (or contract) states, not whether someone made a "mistake". If there is no definition of the disposition of a deposit, many states favor the buyer, unless the seller can prove an argument for retaining some or all of it as "liquidated damages". The burden for that in most states has to be demonstrable to the court, not just assertion.
Yes, no one knows the particulars of this situation and if the buyer signed paperwork stipulating the deposit is non-refundable in any and all circumstances, then yes, not only would they likely be out of luck (although some state laws even point question to that), they'd have to be galactically stupid. You toss out claims others are posting "outside their scope", but then you commit the same supposed act. What matters is what the purchase order (or contract) states, not whether someone made a "mistake". If there is no definition of the disposition of a deposit, many states favor the buyer, unless the seller can prove an argument for retaining some or all of it as "liquidated damages". The burden for that in most states has to be demonstrable to the court, not just assertion.You keep making all these "legal" CLAIMS but have offered no substance. All the state laws can be found on the internet and all you need to do is link us up with all your vast knowledge. I have been there multiple times with people just like you who believe something they heard in a bar or saw on Judge Judy. I kept the money!
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 8,055
Likes: 2,694
From: New Mexico
2018 C6 of Year Finalist
In California you have to take possession of the vehicle before the deposit is non-refundable:
"Fail to refund any purchase money, including purchase deposits, upon demand by a consumer at any time prior to the consumers signing of a vehicle purchase agreement with a selling dealer and taking delivery of the vehicle described in the brokering agreement."
https://california.public.law/codes/..._section_11736
"Fail to refund any purchase money, including purchase deposits, upon demand by a consumer at any time prior to the consumers signing of a vehicle purchase agreement with a selling dealer and taking delivery of the vehicle described in the brokering agreement."
https://california.public.law/codes/..._section_11736
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 12,866
Likes: 10,274
From: Garden Valley CA
I'm not a lawyer either but this seems to apply to a dealer "brokering" a retail sale:
https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/vehicle...ect-11736.html
https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/vehicle...ect-11736.html
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Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 2,506
In California you have to take possession of the vehicle before the deposit is non-refundable:
"Fail to refund any purchase money, including purchase deposits, upon demand by a consumer at any time prior to the consumers signing of a vehicle purchase agreement with a selling dealer and taking delivery of the vehicle described in the brokering agreement."
https://california.public.law/codes/..._section_11736
"Fail to refund any purchase money, including purchase deposits, upon demand by a consumer at any time prior to the consumers signing of a vehicle purchase agreement with a selling dealer and taking delivery of the vehicle described in the brokering agreement."
https://california.public.law/codes/..._section_11736
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 8,055
Likes: 2,694
From: New Mexico
2018 C6 of Year Finalist
I'm not a lawyer either but this seems to apply to a dealer "brokering" a retail sale:
https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/vehicle...ect-11736.html
https://codes.findlaw.com/ca/vehicle...ect-11736.html
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 2,506
There are several classifications of dealer licenses. You can be a new car dealer, a used car dealer, a wholesale dealer, a rebuilder, a salvage dealer, or a broker to name a few. They all have very different requirements in several different areas. To sell new Corvettes directly to the public, you obviously must be a franchised Chevrolet new car dealer.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 12,866
Likes: 10,274
From: Garden Valley CA
That has been quoted here before and has nothing to do with the current situation. This is a statute involved with Brokering in California. Brokering is when a third party is engaged by a buyer to find and negotiate a purchase of a particular car. What this discussion is about is a licensed and franchised new car dealer selling a new car of the brand they represent. A Broker is a completely different license in California.
https://margarianlaw.com/car-dealers...ts-refundable/
It appears that the deposit is non-refundable if you sign a purchase contract that states it is non-refundable.
What is interesting is when I asked my dealer if my deposit is refundable he said yes - it is required per California law.
I never signed a purchase contract, just a deposit form which had no mention of the refundability of the deposit.
Edit: And I think (but am not sure) that for a new car purchase contract to be valid in California a VIN is required.
Last edited by RKCRLR; Feb 14, 2020 at 03:04 PM.
Le Mans Master
Joined: Jan 2016
Posts: 8,055
Likes: 2,694
From: New Mexico
2018 C6 of Year Finalist
There are several classifications of dealer licenses. You can be a new car dealer, a used car dealer, a wholesale dealer, a rebuilder, a salvage dealer, or a broker to name a few. They all have very different requirements in several different areas. To sell new Corvettes directly to the public, you obviously must be a franchised Chevrolet new car dealer.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Nov 2019
Posts: 2,528
Likes: 1,567
Who insinuated the dealer can't deliver the product but wants to keep the money? The OP stated the dealer has a car coming in a few days that the person who ordered it was not going to take...period. The new buyer would have to make a non-refundable deposit just as the now backed-out buyer did. Period!
You keep making all these "legal" CLAIMS but have offered no substance. All the state laws can be found on the internet and all you need to do is link us up with all your vast knowledge. I have been there multiple times with people just like you who believe something they heard in a bar or saw on Judge Judy. I kept the money!
You keep making all these "legal" CLAIMS but have offered no substance. All the state laws can be found on the internet and all you need to do is link us up with all your vast knowledge. I have been there multiple times with people just like you who believe something they heard in a bar or saw on Judge Judy. I kept the money!
It is you who has been giving an impression dealers hold all the cards in contractual transactions and my point is meant to be that is not true. But....you now do give at least ONE good bit of advice.........Look up state laws regarding deposit returns in business transactions and particularly car dealers (new and used, as there are usually some differences). Better yet, get legal advice from a professional. Don’t just believe the face-value legal assertions from a car salesman who slept in a Holiday Inn Express last night. One should always discuss their situation with an experienced Consumer Law attorney who specializes in this area. BTW, I was told the biggest obstacle to buyers after they believe they've been treated unfairly by dealers are the various assertions made by dealers to discourage buyers from getting legal advice (usually initial consultations are free).
My advice: NEVER take what a car dealer says at face value and act defensively. After all, their goal is not just to take the money", but to "keep it!". There are honorable car salespersons and dealers to be sure, but there are plenty of rotten apples. Sign what you know and know what you sign.
Edit: The OP's situation is unclear as to whether the buyer bailed after the car was "built" (3000) or before and the dealer took it anyway. If it was built, the dealer wins and SHOULD win. If not, unless there is a stipulation it is non-refundable once accepted, then the buyer SHOULD win. I assumed the latter situation, but that is an assumption on my part.
Last edited by Panfish; Feb 14, 2020 at 04:29 PM.
Intermediate
Joined: Feb 2020
Posts: 34
Likes: 18
From: Houston, TX
Always place deposits with a credit card. You'll be able to dispute the charge if the dealer does not allow you a refund. Easy win since you did not receive anything in return for the charge. Just takes 30 days for the refund to show.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2016
Posts: 12,866
Likes: 10,274
From: Garden Valley CA
I used my credit card for my deposit. However, the time limit to dispute the charge (I think 3 months) could expire before you determine you want your deposit back (not a problem in my case - I WANT the car).
Last edited by RKCRLR; Feb 14, 2020 at 03:35 PM.
Instructor
Joined: Oct 2019
Posts: 135
Likes: 70
From: New York
My local dealer has announced that his first C8 order was cancelled and wants to sell the C8 coming in a few days. He admits he did not refund the guys deposit. He wants a new deposit and says it is non refundable. He claims GM will not let him return the deposit. This sounds wrong. Can anyone confirm the GM policy of no refund. What are other dealers doing?
Melting Slicks
Joined: Oct 2016
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 2,506
Again, not true. Any business accepting credit cards must have an agreement with someone doing those transactions. That agreement is based on law not the theory that the consumer always wins. You can dispute anything on either side and ultimately the courts are going to decide the outcome. Of course the credit card company is going to side with the cardholder to a point. That is in fact their customer and they still have to collect the money from that party.