Track alignment
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 287
Likes: 207
Track alignment
Any of you guys run a variation of alignment specs in between track and street settings? Something to assist rotation a little better than street settings but not aggressive enough to chew your street rubber?
Would love to hear from folks the specs used to facilitate a happy medium.
Thx in advance.
Would love to hear from folks the specs used to facilitate a happy medium.
Thx in advance.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,785
Likes: 1,417
If you are needing rotation on the street, you are probably going to jail... (not to mention being astoundingly unsafe.) I have never, ever encountered understeer on the street., or needed the car to rotate. Just saying...
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 34,854
Likes: 12,288
From: NE South Carolina
^^^^
I have experienced understeer often in my FWD Dodge Colt Turbo. 1st and only FWD car and when leaving an apex, with too much throttle it plowed off the road! The solution was to use a method employed by folks who raced FWD cars! A quick, short application the emergency brake with the locking button held in gets the rear end to slide out until the car is pointed in the right direction.
Also had a modified '67 Corvair with Plus 1 wheels/performance tires, headers etc. It "rotated" (oversteered) all the time! If going to fast for a corner had to use reverse lock like a dirt track driver to save it sliding off the road rear first!
Can be done on the street so as not to risk anyone but yourself and car. Have never had an accident with another car in 60 years driving. (Have had a few "off the road excursions!")
Merry Christmas!
I have experienced understeer often in my FWD Dodge Colt Turbo. 1st and only FWD car and when leaving an apex, with too much throttle it plowed off the road! The solution was to use a method employed by folks who raced FWD cars! A quick, short application the emergency brake with the locking button held in gets the rear end to slide out until the car is pointed in the right direction.
Also had a modified '67 Corvair with Plus 1 wheels/performance tires, headers etc. It "rotated" (oversteered) all the time! If going to fast for a corner had to use reverse lock like a dirt track driver to save it sliding off the road rear first!
Can be done on the street so as not to risk anyone but yourself and car. Have never had an accident with another car in 60 years driving. (Have had a few "off the road excursions!")
Merry Christmas!
Last edited by JerryU; Dec 25, 2020 at 09:00 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Sep 2015
Posts: 4,785
Likes: 1,417
Yeah Jerry, but we aren't talking about a FWD car, or a Corvair...You have to do some pretty stupid, or ham handed stuff, to make a C7 or C8 understeer on the street.... My turbo Mini Cooper would torque steer like crazy until I installed a Quaife LSD, but these aren't those.. You'd have to be really pushing it to make a C7 or C8 misbehave where you need to rotate the car... Like going directly to jail type speed.
Moderator
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 40,877
Likes: 4,329
From: Lakewood Ranch, FL
Gents, the OP asked how to get it done, not if he should use it. If you want to discuss the pros and cons, please feel free to start your own thread about it. For this thread, stay on topic.
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 34,854
Likes: 12,288
From: NE South Carolina
Yeah Jerry, but we aren't talking about a FWD car, or a Corvair...You have to do some pretty stupid, or ham handed stuff, to make a C7 or C8 understeer on the street.... My turbo Mini Cooper would torque steer like crazy until I installed a Quaife LSD, but these aren't those.. You'd have to be really pushing it to make a C7 or C8 misbehave where you need to rotate the car... Like going directly to jail type speed.
Expect those Autocrossing may have some easy solutions to "get it rotate" as the OP asks. The Corvair had an interesting way to minimsie the inherent oversteer in a 60% rear weight car. They specified 16 psi front tire pressure! Few read or understood the reason (including the gas station attendants that back in the day in addition to filling the car with gas often checked tire pressure!) They would use their normal rule of thumb 30 to 35 psi for all 4 corners! That just made the oversteer (rear rotation) worse!The OP might try higher front tire pressure and lower in the rear (more front less rear grip.) Back in the day Porsches of the mid/late 60s era had the same issue as Corvairs. Had to learn to manage the issue (which the average driver, even many performance folks did not.) The Corvair also used a method that helped "steer the rear" in a high 'g' turn back on the road." The rear tow-in spec was 1/4 to 3/8 inches!" So OP might consider adjusting rear toe for something else to try!
But get "enough rotation" best learn when in a high speed skid to steer like Tony Steward is doing on his dirt car! You'll only have a fraction of a second! Tadge said "oversteer' was his "biggest fear" when designing the C8. His experience with his dad's Porsche! No doubt of the Corvair era, was what he knew was a difficult thing to manage unless you had experience. He knew few folks knew what to to do in a high speed rear skid!
Last edited by JerryU; Dec 25, 2020 at 10:29 AM.
Safety Car
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 4,537
Likes: 1,402
From: Bethesda MD
This thread has some relevant info for the OP:
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ned-today.html
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...ned-today.html
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Drifting
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,561
Likes: 1,360
Ditto. And I'm an a-hole who bombs canyon roads all the time in SoCal...
Thread Starter
Racer
Joined: Sep 2018
Posts: 287
Likes: 207
The specs request was obviously more for not wishing to change alignment for the handful of track days but rather find a happy medium. Willing to compromise some tire longevity in order to improve some understeer at track. Not looking for rotation on street. Didn't think that needed to be cleared up but there you have it.
Thx for the responses folks.
Thx for the responses folks.
Racer
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 322
Likes: 14
From: Woodstock Georgia
So I was thinking about this last night when I was test fitting new wheels to the car. So from the factory the camber is set to -.6 to -.8 degrees IIRC and the manual indicates to achieve the -3 degrees move the washers from between the body and UCA to the other side between the bolt head and UCA. I would think this change would get the car between -2 to -2.5 degrees with the lower cam bolt dialing it in. Why not just leave the alignment set up for the street and move the washers when tracking to at least get the camber close to the track alignment. If you want to get even closer have a track alignment done and mark the cams for street and track and adjust those as well. I reached out to my shop that does my track alignments on the track car to get there thoughts but they were closed for New Years already.