I know I'm going to get flamed from someone about asking this but here goes......

I went to Spring Mountain in 2015 after purchasing my 15 C7. I got to the condos the night before the two day class started and met a guy who had driven his C7 Z06 there from California. We got to talking about our cars and he tracked his frequently. I had a base C7 that I had never tracked but had tracked my C5 on a few occasions at some Corvette club events and also had driven the Bloomington Gold Road Tour for four years when it was located in St. Charles, IL. Neither of us were scared of speed.

As those of you who have been to this school know after your first track run the instructors put you into groups. When I attended there were "slow" groups and "fast" groups. Both me and the Z06 owner were placed into the same group and we determined pretty quickly that our group was determined to be a slow group. We were pretty miffed about it. When you get in line behind the instructors there for track runs they will go as fast as they think you can follow them, so me and the Z06 owner made a pact. We got in the line every time either in front or behind each other and when it was our turn to follow the instructor our goal was to go so fast that the instructor would tell the rest of the group to catch up to us at least once while they were giving us instructions. If I was behind the instructor I expected the Z06 owner to be right on my rear bumper and vice-versa. As it turned out when we were doing our second day track runs we actually passed a group that was considered a fast group. They had to pull over to the side on a straight to let us by!

I've had my C8 for a little over a month and the handling on that car is so much better than my C7. I've actually driven on some rural curvy roads that I've driven many times before and pushed that car around some curves so fast that if I was in my C7 I know I would have felt the rear end of the C7 try to come around on me. The C8 is like "what else you got?" I don't want to end up in a slow group because I still remember a lot of the instructions given to me in 2015. How do they determine who gets into which group and what are your experiences there in the C8?

 

Yep, the groupings aren't perfect, but they usually work out pretty well. Having been there 3 times, I've had folks in my fast group that couldn't keep up with the faster drivers when they were behind the instructor. They wished they had been in the slower group because they felt bad.

There is no shame in being in a "slower" group, and that makes it more fun for most people, as long as they don't get it stuck in their heads that they are somehow being deemed "inferior."

 

When I got there I had my C8 much longer than most people and had probably pushed it harder too. One other guy and I were the only ones out of 20 that had used launch control and went over a 100.
I was in the fast group and when I was behind the instructor we usually lost the other two. Ran pretty close to their demo lap times. When I was following the other classmates we were usually 2-5 seconds slower. Basically I just focused on the lines of the track and what I could do technically better so I could improve my efficiency when up to bat behind the instructor. Plenty of learning to be had and they do a great job there getting every one through. My GF wants to do it now 🙄 and I have no doubt she will be slow as hell😂 I'll probably have her do it when I do the Z06 one. At least the class is good for all experience levels.

 

If I had one suggestion for how they do the groupings, it would be to not put the group names up on the whiteboard in front of the entire class. It's pretty obvious from the initial lead/follow sessions which is which. That tends to make some folks feel publicly "humiliated." Perhaps a piece of paper handed to each person or something.

 

I'm always in the fast group... I was with the lead instructor in my Z51 C7 paired with 2 other ZO6 C7's I was always on their tails!

 

When making reservation, tell them about your driving experience - they may be able to place you in the faster run-group. There will also be some shuffling around into Day 2 as well. Also, if you are looking to up your experience and if you have tracked your cars before, consider signing up for Level 1 instead. You get the credit from new car but you may need to pay a few hundreds extra -- I think it could be $1,500 instead of the usual $1,000.

 

^ Agreed, my first trip there was in 2006 before owner's classes began, and ultimately did Levels 1 and 2. They did a lot of open tracking (no lead/follow) with passing allowed in those days.

Also, even if you tell them you have track experience, they will probably put you in a slower group if you don't keep up in initial sessions and/or they see your lines are all messed up.

 

I can drive pretty fast and much of my experience in going fast came from racing snowmobiles when I was younger. That’s when I learned how to enter and exit corners and what line you want to take. There were many times I may have pushed it a bit more than I should but snowmobiles were easy to fix and with insurance small deductibles. All that being said I know when I go to Ron Fellows I won’t be pushing anywhere near my limits. This is mostly because of the ridiculous damage deductible that there is if something even small happens to the car. I believe it’s 8 thousand bucks unless you buy down the deductible for 200 bucks then it’s still 2 thousand deductible.
I can’t wait to go next Spring but the insurance situation definitely takes some of the fun out of it. Maybe they do it to damper our enthusiasm on the track and. If that’s the case it will definitely work with me.

 

Good suggestions. I didn't feel inferior. It was more of a feeling with both me and the guy with the Z06 of "what did we do wrong?" I totally get the people who couldn't keep up. We had several members in my class who weren't ashamed to admit their C7 was their first Corvette and it scared them. I was glad none of them were in my group. I actually think the way the guy with the Z06 and I handled it made the others in our group keep up with us. We all celebrated on day two when we were allowed to pass that group on the straight because they were holding us up.

 

I've already had mine over 100 but have yet to use launch control. I'm about to hit the 1500 mile mark and will attempt launch control after that, but from what I've read about it where do you go to try it? I would think you would have to find a pretty large empty parking lot or something similar.

 

I'll probably go next Spring as well and I will pay the $200 for the peace of mind. Don't let that keep you from using your past skills to enjoy this school. They have the lead instructor in a tower when you are on the track and if you do anything they deem dangerous they will come talk to you after a run. They don't want you to damage one of their cars more than you don't want to damage them.

On our last track run in 2015 me and the guy in the Z06 were in the back of our group. On the very last turn before we would stop and go home I went in too hot and almost jumped the rumble strips. He was following me and did jump the rumble strips but we both quickly got the cars back under control. After we got out of the car we couldn't even get our helmets off before we were being scolded by the guy from the tower. He was very professional about it but he couldn't let us go without giving us one last "safety tip."

 

My recommendation is to not take the groupings personally as that did put a damper on your experience in the past. With that said, I did end up in the rabbit group when I went, start to finish. The lead instructor's feedback was that group selections were primarily based on the results of the mini exercises at the beginning of the course (maturity, ability to follow directions, average speed, etc.). I made quick friends with a fellow military pilot at breakfast before Day 1 started and was fully expecting him to be in the fast group; he did not make it and I believe he was told it was because his car control was not the best (ie. on the quick accel/decel exercises he kept doing burnouts and looked to not have control/discipline of the car.

Conversely one guy who was very extroverted about his racing abilities because he attended parade laps in the past () started in the rabbit group and was moved to the turtles after the first track session when it became very clear that he was petrified of being on track; ironically his pace was essentially doing parade laps during his turns.

For what it's worth, I had a bout of chapped *** when I was early in my HPDE days (a couple years before my Spring Mountain course). I treated HPDE like Army Flight School; doing my best to be early to safety meetings, sessions, thorough maintenance checks before and after every session, memorizing flags, flag stations, managing traffic point-by and passes, trying to be safe/fast/consistent... the instructor I had would only say "good" for real-time feedback, nothing more or less. After sessions, I would ask what I should improve on to work towards Solo/progression, and he would basically blow off the question. As others in the group starting getting signed off for solo, I became chapped about it. Frankly, it made a fun weekend a lot less fun. Eventually I had a chance to have other instructors ride who were on board with my solo, then luckily I made a quick climb to the advanced groups, surpassing the guys who had made it to solo first.

Moral of the story is try to not take it personal because it may not be about you, focus on improving your driving and making friends, and let the chips fall where they may.

 

Agreed, it shouldn't be taken personally, but some always did every one of the 3 times I was there. For those who have the right attitude, you can actually learn more with less pressure in a slower group.

If the instructor is just a tiny dot in front of you, you're not going to benefit much in terms of learning the proper lines. Ideally, all lead/follow track sessions should be closely grouped.

 

We just drive out to some old country roads no people or cars around. Just paved road and pastures.

 

I was just there last month and I think they did a good job of managing the groups. Plus, when you are the one behind the instructor trust me the instructor will be able to go faster than you will be able to go around the track no matter how fast you think you are. There was a few times where the person in front of me was going slower than I wanted, but in that case I would just fall back, let them get a distance ahead and then I could continue at my faster pace without them slowing me up. In our class the instructors made changes on the second day of class so they do keep an eye out as to everyone's progress and make changes as needed.

 

The first division into groups was random. Only AFTER they've seen your ability do they assign you to groups, and those groupings are dynamic, in that they will change your position within that group, again based on your performance.

While I was there, there were people who apologized for being the "turtle" and slowing others down. I told them that it wasn't about being the fastest or slowest but about learning to be better. Others wanted to compare lap times, or top speed achieved. I told them that for me competition, with others, but only about my getting better each time I drove the car. Some people had been before and were significantly faster than others. For many it was the first time on ANY track.

My "advice" is to concern yourself with your own personal performance and goals. The instructors will tailor your experience to the ability that YOU show them.

My 2¢

 

I, of course, knew I would not be the premium driver in the group of 18. I was surprised that I was in the third group but it was made clear to me that I was positioned properly. Although in the first position of the slowest group I learned so much and my skills and confidence improved greatly in two days. The instructor driven hot lap session at the end of the first day sent me out nine seconds faster on the first lap of the second day.

on the second day a driver from the first group dropped back into the third group because he scared himself in the first group. We had been advised to leave three to four lengths between the lead car (instructor) and each of our cars. I was able to observe the first group on the track and it looked like a freight train with about a half car length between each of the cars. They were running hard. Very hard. I realized it was above my skill set and pay grade.

The first group was people who had attended previous schools at Spring Mountain, some of them multiple schools including levels 1&2. These were drivers.

Regardless I came away a better driver of the car, much more confident in the abilities of the car and soooo happy I took the time and made the financial investment for my wife and myself to take the Corvette Owners School.

It doesn’t matter which group you are in, it matters that you learn and appreciate the efforts the instructors put forth and that you learn more about your car.

 

When I was there for the C8 they were constantly shuffling people around to keep everyone as closely matched as possible. There were two others out with me were the fast group and we lapped faster than the demo they show. The three of us were all but dead even in skill though, none of us could pull the other an inch, I've never seen anything so evenly matched up. Forget most of what you know about the old front engine cars, this is completely different and they will teach you how to drive a ME car with the weight distribution like this has. You don't drive them hard the same. You haven't scratched the surface on any public road yet either.

 

I have about 20 years of wheel to wheel racing running many full seasons nationally. So I called ahead a few times to make sure they were aware when I did my C8 school earlier this year. They put me in with another guy who had been to several Ron Fellows schools at different levels. It was only us two except they added one guy on the last session.

This worked fine and I had a great time, eventhough I was 2 or 3 seconds quicker per lap. When you are following another student, make a gap and run faster until you catch up. And they don’t want you on the guys bumper in front of you, but a few car lengths back, unless it’s the instructor

They did move people around over the weekend. And I think the instructors are good judges of speed and technique. Also just because someone does track days or drives 100 on the street does not mean they know how to race or have good racing techniques - no offense intended

 

I went in 2018 after buying my 2017 Stingray manual. I knew on day 1 that I had to push fairly hard to make the fast group for day 2. I’d say that and asking questions in the classroom help your chances. Also, mention that you’ve attended before and have track experience during the introductions. within each group, there are 3 sub groups, fast to slow. I was middle. The fast of the fast were two guys who were experienced. The other two groups had 3 or 4 in each. Can’t recall. I was running with two z06 cars so they gapped me on the straights but I feel like I caught back up in the corners, although not fully. Most likely, they were better drivers than me.
On day 2, when the fast group is on the track, the slow group is in class and vice versa. Maybe it was different in 2015 where both groups were out at the same time.
I’ll be there in late December for fun with the C8. Can’t wait!