Steering
Thread Starter
Instructor
Joined: Aug 2022
Posts: 111
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From: Alaska
Steering
I have 200 miles on my new HTC, when I am stopped, say to pull into parking spot or other sharp turn. The front feels like a 4wd truck in 4 wheel drive on dry pavement. Herky jerky.
Anyone else with this problem?
Thanks
Anyone else with this problem?
Thanks
Advanced
Joined: Jun 2021
Posts: 77
Likes: 46
hi! I have 2023 with 350 miles. I have noticed the same thing. I attributed it to the tire break in. I have Z51 so I assume maybe tired related due to stickies on it, but really didn’t put much concern into it.
Race Director
Joined: Aug 2016
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From: Garden Valley CA
It is a known condition with summer tires in cold weather due to the effect of partial Akerman steering during sharp turns.
Thread Starter
Instructor
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From: Alaska
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
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From: NE South Carolina
However Tadge said they did not need the more race car type tire construction in the C8 Z51 as used in the C7 where chatter or “hopping” as GM referred to it was very pronounced. It was really bad below about 45 F. I have verified my C8 Z51 is not nearly as bad as my C7 Z51 and Grand Sport. In the winter I was using a “K” turn when I backed my C7 out of my garage to go down the driveway. No need in the summer. But it’s not that bad at >45F with the C8. But suspect at ~35 F it might be.
This is a detailed PDF re Ackerman and why limited Ackerman compensation allows higher max lateral “g” force at higher speeds.
http://netwelding.com/Wheel_Chatter.pdf
But if those comments are occurring at 50 - 55F or more there is an issue with the electric power steering. My Z51 has no unusual feeling on full-lock slow speeds at those temps.
Race Director
Joined: Apr 2017
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From: Virginia
Yep, it’s more that rubber tired cars don’t need full Ackerman compensation for very sharp slow turns to offset the difference in turning ‘radius inside to outside tire. The tire slip angle provides some of the difference so less is built into the steering geometry. Performance tires have lower slip angles.
However Tadge said they did not need the more race car type tire construction in the C8 Z51 as used in the C7 where chatter or “hopping” as GM referred to it was very pronounced. It was really bad below about 45 F. I have verified my C8 Z51 is not nearly as bad as my C7 Z51 and Grand Sport. In the winter I was using a “K” turn when I backed my C7 out of my garage to go down the driveway. No need in the summer. But it’s not that bad at >45F with the C8. But suspect at ~35 F it might be.
This is a detailed PDF re Ackerman and why limited Ackerman compensation allows higher max lateral “g” force at higher speeds.
http://netwelding.com/Wheel_Chatter.pdf
But if those comments are occurring at 50 - 55F or more there is an issue with the electric power steering. My Z51 has no unusual feeling on full-lock slow speeds at those temps.
However Tadge said they did not need the more race car type tire construction in the C8 Z51 as used in the C7 where chatter or “hopping” as GM referred to it was very pronounced. It was really bad below about 45 F. I have verified my C8 Z51 is not nearly as bad as my C7 Z51 and Grand Sport. In the winter I was using a “K” turn when I backed my C7 out of my garage to go down the driveway. No need in the summer. But it’s not that bad at >45F with the C8. But suspect at ~35 F it might be.
This is a detailed PDF re Ackerman and why limited Ackerman compensation allows higher max lateral “g” force at higher speeds.
http://netwelding.com/Wheel_Chatter.pdf
But if those comments are occurring at 50 - 55F or more there is an issue with the electric power steering. My Z51 has no unusual feeling on full-lock slow speeds at those temps.
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Instructor
Joined: Aug 2022
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From: Alaska
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But Tadge said they did not have to use the race car type tires as needed on the C7 so IT DOES NOT HAVE THE C7 CHATTER!
Know most will not look at my many pic/long caption PDF so this is a quote:
“With the introduction of the C8, Tadge Juechter, the Corvette Chief Engineer provided some perspective as to the reason the C7 was very bad, much worse that my C6 Z51 when below 50 F and especially at 40F. In a 1+ hour interview on Autoline Afterhours he said they knew they pushed the FE Corvette design as far as they could when they were concerned the 2009 C6 ZR1 with it’s 638 hp supercharged engine was not able to even match the 0 to 60 time of the Z06 with only 505 hp! He said the added front weight of the ZR1 supercharger and intercooler added more weight on the front wheels and did not provide the needed traction for faster 0 to 60 times. He said the barely squeezed by using very special race car type, sticky tires!”
Answering a question at the 1st C8 BASH Tadge said they did not have to use race car type tire construction in the C8 so it does not have the C7 Z51 “Chatter.” I have found it is much better and I don’t have to turn less than full lock and use a “K” turn to drive down my driveway after backing out of my garage when it’s ~45F. I use full lock as I did with my Grand Sport in the summer. There is some slight chatter more like my C6 Z51 but nothing like my 2017 Grand Sport when cold. But suspect when below ~45 F you will feel some chatter. Fortunately I seldom have to drive when below ~40F.
Know most will not look at my many pic/long caption PDF so this is a quote:
“With the introduction of the C8, Tadge Juechter, the Corvette Chief Engineer provided some perspective as to the reason the C7 was very bad, much worse that my C6 Z51 when below 50 F and especially at 40F. In a 1+ hour interview on Autoline Afterhours he said they knew they pushed the FE Corvette design as far as they could when they were concerned the 2009 C6 ZR1 with it’s 638 hp supercharged engine was not able to even match the 0 to 60 time of the Z06 with only 505 hp! He said the added front weight of the ZR1 supercharger and intercooler added more weight on the front wheels and did not provide the needed traction for faster 0 to 60 times. He said the barely squeezed by using very special race car type, sticky tires!”
Answering a question at the 1st C8 BASH Tadge said they did not have to use race car type tire construction in the C8 so it does not have the C7 Z51 “Chatter.” I have found it is much better and I don’t have to turn less than full lock and use a “K” turn to drive down my driveway after backing out of my garage when it’s ~45F. I use full lock as I did with my Grand Sport in the summer. There is some slight chatter more like my C6 Z51 but nothing like my 2017 Grand Sport when cold. But suspect when below ~45 F you will feel some chatter. Fortunately I seldom have to drive when below ~40F.
Last edited by JerryU; Oct 26, 2022 at 07:25 AM.
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I have a non-Z51 C8 and I feel the Ackerman effect on cold tires. It startled me when I first felt it on my C7. After the tires get warm it goes away.
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Joined: Dec 2019
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But Tadge said they did not have to use the race car type tires as needed on the C7 so IT DOES NOT HAVE THE C7 CHATTER!
Know most will not look at my many pic/long caption PDF so this is a quote:
“With the introduction of the C8, Tadge Juechter, the Corvette Chief Engineer provided some perspective as to the reason the C7 was very bad, much worse that my C6 Z51 when below 50 F and especially at 40F. In a 1+ hour interview on Autoline Afterhours he said they knew they pushed the FE Corvette design as far as they could when they were concerned the 2009 C6 ZR1 with it’s 638 hp supercharged engine was not able to even match the 0 to 60 time of the Z06 with only 505 hp! He said the added front weight of the ZR1 supercharger and intercooler added more weight on the front wheels and did not provide the needed traction for faster 0 to 60 times. He said the barely squeezed by using very special race car type, sticky tires!”
Answering a question at the 1st C8 BASH Tadge said they did not have to use race car type tire construction in the C8 so it does not have the C7 Z51 “Chatter.” I have found it is much better and I don’t have to turn less than full lock and use a “K” turn to drive down my driveway after backing out of my garage when it’s ~45F. I use full lock as I did with my Grand Sport in the summer. There is some slight chatter more like my C6 Z51 but nothing like my 2017 Grand Sport when cold. But suspect when below ~45 F you will feel some chatter. Fortunately I seldom have to drive when below ~40F.
Know most will not look at my many pic/long caption PDF so this is a quote:
“With the introduction of the C8, Tadge Juechter, the Corvette Chief Engineer provided some perspective as to the reason the C7 was very bad, much worse that my C6 Z51 when below 50 F and especially at 40F. In a 1+ hour interview on Autoline Afterhours he said they knew they pushed the FE Corvette design as far as they could when they were concerned the 2009 C6 ZR1 with it’s 638 hp supercharged engine was not able to even match the 0 to 60 time of the Z06 with only 505 hp! He said the added front weight of the ZR1 supercharger and intercooler added more weight on the front wheels and did not provide the needed traction for faster 0 to 60 times. He said the barely squeezed by using very special race car type, sticky tires!”
Answering a question at the 1st C8 BASH Tadge said they did not have to use race car type tire construction in the C8 so it does not have the C7 Z51 “Chatter.” I have found it is much better and I don’t have to turn less than full lock and use a “K” turn to drive down my driveway after backing out of my garage when it’s ~45F. I use full lock as I did with my Grand Sport in the summer. There is some slight chatter more like my C6 Z51 but nothing like my 2017 Grand Sport when cold. But suspect when below ~45 F you will feel some chatter. Fortunately I seldom have to drive when below ~40F.
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 35,050
Likes: 12,416
From: NE South Carolina
It is the tires that cause the "chatter" or "hopping" feeling when making the sharp turns in colder weather on cold tires. I picked up my car Z51 in December 2020 and was warned or given the heads up about it during my Museum Delivery. After being home a couple days, I swapped out my wheels and installed all-season tires, instant difference making turns in my driveway.
Yep GM could have used more Ackerman steering geometry to eliminate chatter with the Z51 BUT at higher speeds you get less lateral "g" performance. The research I did is in the PDF and defines why.