MacMulkin - Ciocca Numbers
Drifting
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,417
Likes: 907
From: Annville, PA
You seem a little hasty to judge MM just because you didn't hear back about trying to trade your 2024 in on a 2025. Did you make an attempt to followup with them by phone or email to find out why no response? Did you ask on the forum about others experience with doing a trade with a remote dealer? And did you approach Ciocca about trading in a 2024 for a 2025 and what was thier response? After your past good buying experieces with MM, I'm a bit puzzled by your apparent willingness to throw them under the bus.
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 35,067
Likes: 12,429
From: NE South Carolina
Not trying to throw anyone under the bus, just stating my experiences with them. Personally know of someone else who had previously purchased from them and bought locally because of trade. Did let them know what I wanted for my trade and no response. Did find a C8 locally and gave me same discount as MM and what I wanted for my trade and saved on transport/courtesy delivery.
I would NOT do Courtesy Delivery from a dealer who was not where I was having servcie. The very large, 30+ Service Bay Chevy/BMW/Mercedes Dealer in town will not do CD (or prefers not to.) Would not even take a Corvette in Trade, told me for my 2020 C8 in mint condition they would send it to a wholesale auction as we're not Vette Country! They typically have 4 BMW's in their showroom some very high end high cost $150,000+. We're the medical center for NE SC, covering Myrtle Beach etc. Have two competing very large hospitals, each has 2 heart bypass teams. Stop on I95 on your way to FL and get indigestion, which has similar symptoms to heat issues, you may windup with a bypass!
Both have the latest MIR units as GM makes them in town! An Expensive BMW or Mercedes fits a Doctors' IMAGE not a Vette!Recall before C8 production started the large dealer only had an allocation for 2 C8's where I ordered mine from Kerbeck who had ~700 (after GM cut all dealer expected allocations in half.) One of their top salesman (where we have bought 4 of my wide's BMWs) told me at the time they were going to ask $12,000 over MSRP versus the MSRP Kerbeck offered with a very long list!
Burning Brakes
Joined: Sep 2024
Posts: 829
Likes: 773
A fair deal and price transparency are of paramount importance! When you are shopping online for car prices, one dealership's ad will jump out at you because it seems to be a fair price. But then when you read the fine print, the good feeling disappears faster than a fart in the wind. I am NOT speaking about Corvettes here - just generically about any brand......from Mazda to Toyota to Chevrolet, Ford, Honda, Nissan, etc.
My wife were kicking around the idea of buying a "fun" weekend car. As much as another Corvette would be cool, they're a bit outside of our budget right now, we are not smitten by the looks of the C8 and it is not offered with a manual transmission. We looked at some 2025 Mazda Miata RF coupes (the ones with the retractable targa roof). The selection is not all that great right now because the 2026 models are not yet arriving at dealerships. According to their web site, none are even in transit yet. Dealers are asking way too much for leftover 2025 models that are now basically a year old.
But anyway, the local dealers in VA (all brands) typically add $499 to $999 in what they refer to as a "processing fee" or "administrative fee" to the bottom line (but never in the advertised price). In other states, they call it a "documentation fee" or they invent some other kind of euphemism. New Hampshire is the only state I know of where they cannot do that. New Hampshire also doesn't have any state sales tax - so the price of the car is the price you pay. Obviously, you will pay your state sales tax to your DMV when you go to register the car - but it saves you some cash at the point of sale and buys you some time (MacMulkin will probably give you a 30-day temporary or transit plate.) Those junk fees are nothing but what we used to call ADP - Additional Dealer Profit.
One dealership in Florida had a model listed at about $36,000 - maybe $2,500 less than the others. But then they had a $999 doc fee, $1,295 freight & reconditioning fee (in addition to the destination fee already on all new cars). There were other extras like nitrogen in the tires, fabric protection, locking wheel lug nuts, paint treatment, etc., etc., which made the car almost $3,000 over MSRP when all was said and done. Freaking scammers!
Eventually, the brick and mortar franchised dealership business model will go away. It may take a long time, but it is archaic, outdated, costly, burdensome and arguably inefficient. It amounts to a lot of overhead that must be paid for by somebody. With the level of profit being lower on new cars than it once was, dealers must get creative with ways in which to get customers to part with their money. This means used cars, parts, service, leasing and - drum roll - "the finance & insurance guy" end up being their big profit centers. If you do your homework, pay cash for a car and don't have a trade, it does make for an easier transaction (for both you and the dealer), but it's less chance they have to muddy the waters or complicate the deal.
Some car salesmen are decent people who work hard and are trying to make a buck like anybody else - but more than a few of them sully the reputation of the rest of them. Even worse, some unscrupulous dealers ruin the reputation of the whole industry. If you ever get some folks in the business (or who used to be in it) to speak candidly, they'll tell you that they wonder how some of those who own dealerships can sleep at night. The Internet has given the average consumer a lot of information that was harder to obtain thirty years ago, but that means that dealers have also adjusted their tactics to stay ahead of the game.
If MacMulkin or Ciocca is too far away, at least you can have a "reference point" for a fair price if you seek to negotiate with your local dealer. Just know that some Chevrolet dealers won't get the allocation of cars and it might mean they're unable to get you exactly what you want. MacMulfkin, Ciocca and Criswell (Mike Furman) each sell enough Corvettes that they're very likely to get what you want - especially with a factory order. If you can get to within $1,000 of what MacMulkin would charge you, is it worth it to not fly up to New Hampshire and drive it all the way home, especially in the winter?
Nothing wrong with a dealership earning a fair profit for their work (same as any other trade), but these bogus fees and the other nonsense is getting out of hand. Caveat Emptor!!
P.S. Whenever Mike Furman retires, Criswell will fall down even farther on that list. If you're looking for a Corvette, he deserves a shot at earning your business. My wife and I bought two C7s from him.
My wife were kicking around the idea of buying a "fun" weekend car. As much as another Corvette would be cool, they're a bit outside of our budget right now, we are not smitten by the looks of the C8 and it is not offered with a manual transmission. We looked at some 2025 Mazda Miata RF coupes (the ones with the retractable targa roof). The selection is not all that great right now because the 2026 models are not yet arriving at dealerships. According to their web site, none are even in transit yet. Dealers are asking way too much for leftover 2025 models that are now basically a year old.
But anyway, the local dealers in VA (all brands) typically add $499 to $999 in what they refer to as a "processing fee" or "administrative fee" to the bottom line (but never in the advertised price). In other states, they call it a "documentation fee" or they invent some other kind of euphemism. New Hampshire is the only state I know of where they cannot do that. New Hampshire also doesn't have any state sales tax - so the price of the car is the price you pay. Obviously, you will pay your state sales tax to your DMV when you go to register the car - but it saves you some cash at the point of sale and buys you some time (MacMulkin will probably give you a 30-day temporary or transit plate.) Those junk fees are nothing but what we used to call ADP - Additional Dealer Profit.
One dealership in Florida had a model listed at about $36,000 - maybe $2,500 less than the others. But then they had a $999 doc fee, $1,295 freight & reconditioning fee (in addition to the destination fee already on all new cars). There were other extras like nitrogen in the tires, fabric protection, locking wheel lug nuts, paint treatment, etc., etc., which made the car almost $3,000 over MSRP when all was said and done. Freaking scammers!
Eventually, the brick and mortar franchised dealership business model will go away. It may take a long time, but it is archaic, outdated, costly, burdensome and arguably inefficient. It amounts to a lot of overhead that must be paid for by somebody. With the level of profit being lower on new cars than it once was, dealers must get creative with ways in which to get customers to part with their money. This means used cars, parts, service, leasing and - drum roll - "the finance & insurance guy" end up being their big profit centers. If you do your homework, pay cash for a car and don't have a trade, it does make for an easier transaction (for both you and the dealer), but it's less chance they have to muddy the waters or complicate the deal.
Some car salesmen are decent people who work hard and are trying to make a buck like anybody else - but more than a few of them sully the reputation of the rest of them. Even worse, some unscrupulous dealers ruin the reputation of the whole industry. If you ever get some folks in the business (or who used to be in it) to speak candidly, they'll tell you that they wonder how some of those who own dealerships can sleep at night. The Internet has given the average consumer a lot of information that was harder to obtain thirty years ago, but that means that dealers have also adjusted their tactics to stay ahead of the game.
If MacMulkin or Ciocca is too far away, at least you can have a "reference point" for a fair price if you seek to negotiate with your local dealer. Just know that some Chevrolet dealers won't get the allocation of cars and it might mean they're unable to get you exactly what you want. MacMulfkin, Ciocca and Criswell (Mike Furman) each sell enough Corvettes that they're very likely to get what you want - especially with a factory order. If you can get to within $1,000 of what MacMulkin would charge you, is it worth it to not fly up to New Hampshire and drive it all the way home, especially in the winter?
Nothing wrong with a dealership earning a fair profit for their work (same as any other trade), but these bogus fees and the other nonsense is getting out of hand. Caveat Emptor!!
P.S. Whenever Mike Furman retires, Criswell will fall down even farther on that list. If you're looking for a Corvette, he deserves a shot at earning your business. My wife and I bought two C7s from him.
Melting Slicks
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,761
Likes: 1,887
From: Myrtle Beach SC/Charlotte NC
Agree, to Each Their Own when it comes to where to buy their Vette. I find the no hassle and super response handling of my last 3 Vettes, 2 from Kerbeck and my E-Ray from Ciocca were great. All 3 delivered directly from BG to a small Chevy Dealer near me who handled Courtesy Delivery for a flat $350 NO extras. They want and earn my aftersales business. Going Wednesday for my E-Ray 7500 mile DCT Filter and 2nd year engine oil change. Super C8 Trained Tech. But they did not have allocations.
I would NOT do Courtesy Delivery from a dealer who was not where I was having servcie. The very large, 30+ Service Bay Chevy/BMW/Mercedes Dealer in town will not do CD (or prefers not to.) Would not even take a Corvette in Trade, told me for my 2020 C8 in mint condition they would send it to a wholesale auction as we're not Vette Country! They typically have 4 BMW's in their showroom some very high end high cost $150,000+. We're the medical center for NE SC, covering Myrtle Beach etc. Have two competing very large hospitals, each has 2 heart bypass teams. Stop on I95 on your way to FL and get indigestion, which has similar symptoms to heat issues, you may windup with a bypass! Both have the latest MIR units as GM makes them in town! An Expensive BMW or Mercedes fits a Doctors' IMAGE not a Vette!
Recall before C8 production started the large dealer only had an allocation for 2 C8's where I ordered mine from Kerbeck who had ~700 (after GM cut all dealer expected allocations in half.) One of their top salesman (where we have bought 4 of my wide's BMWs) told me at the time they were going to ask $12,000 over MSRP versus the MSRP Kerbeck offered with a very long list!
I would NOT do Courtesy Delivery from a dealer who was not where I was having servcie. The very large, 30+ Service Bay Chevy/BMW/Mercedes Dealer in town will not do CD (or prefers not to.) Would not even take a Corvette in Trade, told me for my 2020 C8 in mint condition they would send it to a wholesale auction as we're not Vette Country! They typically have 4 BMW's in their showroom some very high end high cost $150,000+. We're the medical center for NE SC, covering Myrtle Beach etc. Have two competing very large hospitals, each has 2 heart bypass teams. Stop on I95 on your way to FL and get indigestion, which has similar symptoms to heat issues, you may windup with a bypass!
Both have the latest MIR units as GM makes them in town! An Expensive BMW or Mercedes fits a Doctors' IMAGE not a Vette!Recall before C8 production started the large dealer only had an allocation for 2 C8's where I ordered mine from Kerbeck who had ~700 (after GM cut all dealer expected allocations in half.) One of their top salesman (where we have bought 4 of my wide's BMWs) told me at the time they were going to ask $12,000 over MSRP versus the MSRP Kerbeck offered with a very long list!
Safety Car
Joined: Jul 2013
Posts: 4,408
Likes: 3,485
From: Granada Hills CA
E-Ray, 3LZ, ZER, LIFT
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 35,067
Likes: 12,429
From: NE South Carolina
Five Star in Florence SC. They are are based in Georgia and have 32 dealerships in 6 Southern states. They bought the one large Chevy Dealer in town who had the Mercedes franchise. They added BMW and recently bought the Nissan dealership in town. I bought my 1st two Vettes from the original Chevy dealer and a Mercedes for my wife. We have purchased 4 BMW;s from them for my wife. Actually great folks for BMW and Mercedes because of their ~30 service bays BMW and Mercedes have their own bays and mechanics and do oil changes etc.
The Chevy dealership services whatever and have one dedicated oil change bay as many dealerships. Usually a newbie mechanic working that Bay who may have been flipping burgers the month before (tough getting good trained mechanics.) I did not trust them to change my C6 or especially my dry sump C7. So I did my own. Even the GM free C7 oil changes not worth the risk to me. Funny even the waiting rooms are all different and on the same property. At BMW I get free coffee, snacks if wanted and a soft sofa and chairs to sit on. For Chevy (and all other) servcie it's in a large noisy room, hard back/seat chairs and if you want coffee etc there are coin operated machines. If Corvette is every to change service image that is a place to start.
Funny in the small Chevy dealer I now use with a great C8 Trained tech the two servcie writers, who are very smart are at the end of the small waiting area. I chat with them, the servcie manager and usually the Controller who manages Courtesy Delivery while waiting for my car. Coffee is free!
The Chevy dealership services whatever and have one dedicated oil change bay as many dealerships. Usually a newbie mechanic working that Bay who may have been flipping burgers the month before (tough getting good trained mechanics.) I did not trust them to change my C6 or especially my dry sump C7. So I did my own. Even the GM free C7 oil changes not worth the risk to me. Funny even the waiting rooms are all different and on the same property. At BMW I get free coffee, snacks if wanted and a soft sofa and chairs to sit on. For Chevy (and all other) servcie it's in a large noisy room, hard back/seat chairs and if you want coffee etc there are coin operated machines. If Corvette is every to change service image that is a place to start.
Funny in the small Chevy dealer I now use with a great C8 Trained tech the two servcie writers, who are very smart are at the end of the small waiting area. I chat with them, the servcie manager and usually the Controller who manages Courtesy Delivery while waiting for my car. Coffee is free!
